Profile Auto Save Discussion

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  • Updated 4 months ago
  • (Edited)
We hear you.  Some of you don't like the Profile Auto Save feature.  I'd like to learn a bit more about what it is that you don't like. 

First, I want you to understand what prompted the change.  We had enough problems related to "losing" settings after they had set them up that we felt like we needed to change how this worked.  The scenario would go like this: They would load up a profile, then go change some settings and get things set just the way they wanted.  But they would forget to go save the profile.  Then they would change bands and end up on another profile.  What they didn't realize is that by not saving the profile, the changes would not be saved.  So when they returned, the original profile is loaded with all of their changes lost.  Bummer.  This was a common scenario and it played out over and over on our helpdesk.

So we sat down and put our heads together to figure out what we could do to help address this issue.  We thought through the scenarios of what people usually do with profiles and compared how changing settings works with other rigs.  The net of all of that is that most radios save changes to settings as soon as they are made and not surprisingly, most operators expect this behavior, barring any previous experience with our profiles.

What we came up with is the new Profile Auto Save feature initially rolled out in v3.0 (also included in v2.5 which will be released very soon).  The Auto Save feature works on both Transmit and Mic Profiles (but not Global Profiles, which are snapshots -- at least not directly. keep reading).  By allowing the user to create a profile based on the current settings, it allows easy creation of backup profiles (to return to if they don't want experimental changes to taint their setup).  And it saves changes to the associated parameters like output power and mic gain.  The net effect is that you can still return to a pristine profile if you like at any time and yet auto save keeps you from having to remember to save your profile and ultimately losing settings.

Note that if you want to keep your pristine profiles pristine, you should load them, then immediately create a derivative profile.  In other words, they are just a starting point that you use as opposed to a profile you actually operate with.


So that's where things were up until this weekend where I sat down and spoke with a customer at the Dayton Hamvention and had him explain what he didn't like about the Auto Save feature.  He was able to explain what bothered him.  Basically, we have trained the customers to use profiles (both Transmit and Global) and they are using them.  However, when they use load Global Profile called "40m CW HP", they expect the power to be set for their amp.  But the Global Profile is simply going to load the associated Transmit Profile and if the last use on that profile ended up bumping the power up, this can turn into a problem (e.g. they load the 40m CW HP Global Profile and key up to find that they have transmitted 100W into their amp -- not good).

So this is something that we will be discussing.  We would like to hear from you about other scenarios like this that have caused you problems with the new Auto Save functionality.  It is admittedly a different way of doing things and change can be hard.  I do think there are advantages to the way it works now in terms of not losing settings that many operators expect to be saved.  On the other hand, we aren't perfect and don't know it all.  So I'm sure we can improve on how it works.

To answer the question: Yes, we do care.  Yes, we are listening.  It is because we are listening that this change was implemented.


Note: For the sake of keeping this conversation clean, responses such as "I just don't like it" are likely to be removed.  We are looking for operational scenarios that describe specifically what it is that causes problems when using Auto Save.  It also helps if the responses are civil.  ;)
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Eric - KE5DTO, Official Rep

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Posted 5 months ago

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Steven Linley

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Thanks Eric, at least we know you're listening.
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Paul Bradbeer

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Thanks for the explanation, Eric. You describe a functionality change that was effected because some people forgot to save their profiles after they made changes, and it caused them problems.

You're right that you have 'trained us' how to use profiles (e.g. 6m Dig QRO), and lots of us like(d) it! The trouble is, the new autosave breaks the fundamental tenet of Profiles (for many of us anyway)...a rock solid reference point of a group of settings...which we want/need to be repeatable, consistent and Persistent!  

I cant see how the 'advantage' of autosaving ('cos some people forget to do it), outweighs the long-standing...and you're right... 'trained' behaviour which is (was) so good at maintaining the all-important persistent, recallable reference point.

Please, either revert it back to how it was before, or at least give us the opportunity to turn autosave off.

Finally, and I don't mean to be 'cute'...I haven't detected a groundswell of users on the Community that wanted this in the first place, so how/why was this prioritised for V3 when there was so much that has been asked for/discussed?

Thanks for the chance to engage on this.

Paul M0CVX
(Edited)
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Paul Bradbeer

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Ok Eric, I understand; it's a shame 'cos I think it is covered well in the manual. Maybe a selectable autosave on/off will serve both sides of the discussion.
I neglected to give you a 'for instance'..
On my 6400M I have a profile specially set up for driving my 6m QRO amplifier, typically 8w power out to produce 450w. Sometimes I want to temporarily drop the drive power, and in doing so, on occasion I have nudged the Mic Gain by accident....both producing changes that I do not want to be persistent. For me, having to create an extra 'derivative' in order to maintain a pristine profile just seems clunky and unnecessary.
73 Paul M0CVX
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Cal Spreitzer

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My concerns are the same as Paul!   I don't like the idea about creating additional "scratch" profiles.  I was happy with the way Profiles were before V3 .  It actually took allot of time for me to get them the way I wanted and it's very aggravating to have them lost / changed so easily! From time to time I may make quick changes that I don't want to be persistent!   Just allow me to chose to turn this function on or off. 

Cal/N3CAL
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K3SF

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I concur with Paul and Cal.  The ability to Turn /OnOff this 'feature' would resolve the base issue of profile being a 'constant' setup you can count on.

That it is one you dont typicaly tweek and if I do tweek, then i usually will save it a specially derived profile and name it accordingly.


Paul K3SF
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Gary L. Robinson

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I also concur with Paul and Cal - though  I can also see why some users might not - so can this auto-save feature be easily disabled and make everyone happy?

Gary WB8ROL
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k0eoo

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Eric, I like the auto save feature, glad Flex included it!  As long as I know it does it I can make sure any changes I make I give a new name to or change it back.  

Thanks again Eric, Dennis, k0eoo
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WX7Y

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Thank you Eric for the great explanation of what to expect in your detailed explanation of the Profiles, The only thing I was worried about is the output power for those of us running AMP's that take a lower power level to drive them. 

Also a different topic, I  looked at the manual last night and also like the NEW Transmit window, the only thing I think is missing from there is a automatic  AMP and Barefoot power setting that could toggle with the RCA PTT 's or other LAN keying command kind of like DDUTIL's Auto Power settings.

Thanks for the great work you guys do and patience you have for us all.

73's
Bret
WX7Y


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Eric - KE5DTO, Official Rep

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The TX1/2/3 outputs are included in the new TX Band Settings window that shows all of the bands and the associated settings.  I would recommend a TX Profile for barefoot that has these turned off.
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Tom W3FRG

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Eric,

I can understand how some have a hard time learning how to create and use the Profiles. I know, I was confused for a while till the light went on.
This "Auto Save" definitely allows users to create Profiles on the fly.
Another reason you don't have to read the manual, wow.

This is an excerpt from a recent posting I made.

Its not the fact that you can go back and reload your saved profiles. I can't go back and reload my blown devices due to this oversight by FRS.

Currently the Tx levels are saved in the Profile. If the Tx level is changed by some error and you transmit into an LDMOS amp that's expecting 5 watts MAX and it gets > than spec you can pop the devices.
Using SSDR this is harder to mess up but, in using the radio alone, as I adjust the Mike gain I can also readjust the RF Power setting, with just by the slip of a finger. If I don't catch that, I'm in deep yogurt. I monitor the Power setting under the word MENU constantly whenever I reset any setting.

An option to turn the Profile Save ON/ OFF is required.

My Amp is set to prevent any overdrive, ALC is NOT used, and in my mind this Option just allows for an additional error happening.

That's why the majority want the Tx Profile to be set at the required level and not changed by some operational error that has been opened up by this newly added option.

Greatly appreciate your taking the time to look into this issue deeper.

Tom W3FRG
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Tom W3FRG

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Setting the MAX Power is slightly helpful, but I need it set from 5 to 25 watts depending on band in use. Plus if I want to operate barefoot I have to revert back to setting Max Power or choose the correct profile for barefoot.

Tom W3FRG
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Cal Spreitzer

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Until V3 came along my TX Levels were all maintained by DDutil.  Never had an issue. 

Cal/N3CAL
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David Decoons wo2x, Elmer

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Yes, DDUtil AutoDrive works great. When DDUtil is enabled it sets power out per band and enables the TX1 line. When DDUtil is in standby it sets power to 100 watts and disables TX1 line.

Hopefully K5FR will release a new version with V3 and V2.5 compatibility

It would be nice as WX7Y suggested to have this functionality in SmartSDR so you can have a QRO and QRP power setting which follows TX1 line.

Dave wo2x
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Eric - KE5DTO, Official Rep

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@Tom The Max Power feature has been around for a while.  Take a look at Settings -> Radio Setup -> TX.  Near the bottom is the Max Power setting.
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Tom W3FRG

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Yes, it has and since I have over 60 unique Profiles in place, therefore I very rarely ever go to the menu where its located. I actually forgot about it.
 However, its not band dependent which would be another great asset to the On/Off on Auto Save to have it selectable by band.
My Pout requirements vary from 5 to 25 watts over the HF Ham Bands.

Tom W3FRG
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Roger, W6VZV

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Thanks Eric.  I am a huge fan of Flex and love my 6400M.  However the Flex is much more complex than other rigs that I have used in 50 years of ham radio.  Plus the things that I do, i.e. setting the rig up for the digital modes, for SSTV, etc., require a lot of specialized settings.  As a result, Profiles has been a lifesaver.  Once I get things set up SO THAT THEY WORK, I like to save a Profile.  Once I go back on the air, I need to know that that Profile has not been changed SO THAT THINGS STILL WORK when I go back to it.
Part of the hobby is fiddling around and experimenting.  When I am doing that, I NEVER want the "fiddling around" to affect my Profile unless I consciously want to make the "fiddling" permanent, which is rare.  My notion is that I rarely or never want to change a Profile once I get it set up right.  If I need a new Profile, that's fine.  If I want to modify a Profile, that is a fairly rare occurrence that obviously I am not going to forget to do.
Particularly for newer Flex users, making Profiles volatile is a very bad idea and I really really hope Flex will return to the old setup.
de Roger W6VZV
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Jon - KF2E

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Don,

I think Eric meant to click the like under the posts you like here in the community, not on other social media.
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Don Cunningham

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Thanks, John.  I guess I wasn't logged into the community and couldn't do that before.  Did I say I was old??  :-) 
Don
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Ryan - NC4RA

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Eric my thoughts are the same as Rogers. Thank you for taking the time to listen to our concerns.
73
Ryan NC4RA
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Massimo Novaro

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I share 100% Roger
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wa4wab

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You nail it right on the head Roger
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KC2QMA_John

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Hello Eric,


Here are my basic issues with Auto Save.


First, I will have to create backup profiles with a different name so I don’t overwrite my main files, but I do that now so no big deal but basically a lot more file management to deal with now with v2.5/3.0. Also new Auto Save feature will cause me to constantly have to re load my profiles each time I start using the radio to make sure everything is set the way I like.


Here is just one simple example of why I don’t like “Auto Save”, Say you are using the Maestro its very easy to bump into knobs or buttons and mess up your settings during a long contest or session without even knowing it. Now to make sure everything is back to where you want it the next time you use the radio you now have to go and re load your backup profile and remember to rename so you don't overwrite that file. Wooooohhhh..

There are many more reasons and I’m sure others will chime in.

One thing I do like about Auto Save is it's great for faster profile building.

All I can say It’s great if some users like and will use the new Auto Save feature but as you can clearly see others don’t like it and just want the option to turn it OFF.


Please just give us the option to Turn Off Auto Save then everyone will be happy and makes the feature even more flexible.


Thanks

John
(Edited)
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Eric - KE5DTO, Official Rep

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Good input.  Thanks John.
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Gary NC3Z

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This is exactly what I was going to say, and what has happened to me.

I also had a compounded problem of memories recalled overwritting the power by band,  which I thought was related to the auto-save. But it was a bug and was addressed in the new release notes.
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Michael Wheatley

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Thank you Eric for listening and for your description of the rational for this new behavior.  Be that as it may, at this point I do not want autosave and I will not migrate to v2.5 or v3 (which I was planning to purchase as soon as my 3rd party software supports it).  Let me explain:

I have a 6400 and an Elecraft KPA500 amp.  I depend upon DDUtil to autodrive my amp and to manage RF settings when I switch bands or move back and forth between standby and operate with
the amp.

Mostly I use my 6400 for FT8, FT4, JS8Call and other digital modes.  But I sometimes switch from DIGU on the 6400 to SSB to catch a conversation I see in the waterfall.  Then I switch back to DIGU to resume my normal operation.

Before I started to use profiles in SSDR I had a lot of trouble maintaining the persistence of my DAX and DAXIQ settings when I powered off the 6400 and powered it back on again and as I switched between bands.  I opened a support ticket about this (#30519) and corresponded with Tim Ellison about the issue.  Before the issue was resolved, I found that I could preserve my desired settings by using profiles.  So I saved a Mic profile, a TX profile for each band and a Global profile for each band.

Now when I power on the 6400 I just load a Global profile for the band I want and I'm set.  To change bands, I simply load another Global profile.  I can change to SSB and back, I can change transmit levels, I can use DDUtil to turn on my amp and it sets the correct RF power level .... everything works just fine.

But with the new autosave profile function, I will need to:
   - load my desired Global profile when I power on the radio
   - save it to a garbage profile
   - load a new Global profile when I switch bands
   - save it to a garbage profile
etc, etc, etc.

Sounds like an extra step that I don't need.  But it's more than a simple click of the mouse.  To save the Garbage profile I need to:
   - select Transmit in the Profile Manager,
   - change the current profile name to Garbage
   - save the Transmit profile
   - select Global in the Profile Manager
   - change the current profile name to Garbage
   - save the Global profile
All of this needs to be done before I start using my radio.  All of this work just to preserve the profiles I so carefully set up.  And it has to be done every time I power up the radio and every time I change bands and every time I change my settings and want to revert to my pristine profile.

A simple on/off switch on the autosave feature would solve my problem.

Michael -- KM6LHD
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Eric - KE5DTO, Official Rep

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Michael -- thanks for the detailed explanation of how these changes affect your workflow.  That really helps to understand how this impacts you.
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Bill -VA3WTB

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hi Eric,

I think many more will say something after they upgrade to 2.5. I am waiting to find out what all the hoopa is about but I am getting a good picture as to what is going on.

I think the last few comments will likely be the most common thoughts. User cases.

Perhaps the auto save feature is a good idea after all, but not the way it is implemented now.

Instead of puting the auto save at the new panel, keep it off by defult and make it so it can be turned on to change a profile setting on the fly.  And put the auto save feature in the old creat profile section, in the profiles pull down menue. so when you want to creat a new profile it auto saves. The way it works now you have to press a save button, remove that and just auto save right there.

This way, people can see all their settings on the new panel in one place,,and that's a great feature I think, but let us make changes to the settings there and only click save if we want to.

--This gives auto save for new profiles and not worrie about forgetting to save, as you mentioned is a real problem reported by the Help Desk.

-- It gives more flexibility to the use of the settings panel feature by not making it auto save but have the option to save settings in the settings panel.

-- This keeps the use of profiles we all are used to.
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Jon - KF2E

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Eric,

Is there any chance that whatever the fix is for profiles it will be ported to V2? This is a big enough problem for me to not upgrade to V2.5 and I really hadn't planned to buy V3 since I don't need multiflex.
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Eric - KE5DTO, Official Rep

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We're too early in the process for me to be able to comment on this.  In general, when we make any changes, we will need to design, implement/code, and test.  This would all happen on the current version and like all other changes/fixes, we will make a determination about what gets rolled back once things are settled. 
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Jon - KF2E

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I'll take that as a no since I can't ever remember anything being "rolled back" after the end of version release. Fortunately, I'm pretty happy with 2.49. Still, I'm glad it is getting addressed.
(Edited)
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Eric - KE5DTO, Official Rep

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I think v2.5 may surprise you then.
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FRED W9TB

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When is v2.5 going to happen ?
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Eric - KE5DTO, Official Rep

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Soon!  If I had an exact date/time, I would tell you.  ;)
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Logan, KE7AZ

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I agree with the earlier comments about Profiles being sacrosanct unless explicitly saved.  As stated by others, many hams, like myself, like to "tinker" and it is nice to have a "back to baseline" capability.  As noted earlier, it can be done by creating "throwaway profiles" but the workflow involves lots of steps which I think are cumbersome, especially after midnight.

I also agree with the need for an "Autosave On/Off" button.  I have experience with an unrelated application that is used by several hundred hams for message passing during an emergency response.  It, too, had multiple profiles and we also struggled with the autosave question.  Our solution consisted of three Autosave options: Always, Prompt, Never, that were on a setup tab.  This solution solved the problem for this application.  Something similar might work for SmartSDR.

Logan, KZ6O


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Jon - KF2E

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I agree, a prompt every time you made a change would be horrible. Just give us an autosave on-off and default it to on for the new users. Then you can look at support down the road and see if the autosave helped new users.
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Duane N9DG

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It will help the user decide quickly if they want that set to automatically save or never automatically save.. :)

Like many others I will almost undoubtedly set it to Never save (automatically) I have a good understanding what is part of the profile vs what is not. And like several others I will frequently do experimental tweaking and experiments on a currently running profile that I will generally want to throw away when I'm done. But if I come up with something I do want to update the profile to, I resave the profile. I have not had an issue remembering to do so. Sort of second nature to me. But I can see how someone who may not have a good grasp of what is in the profile vs. what is not may get frustrated by things not persisting the way that they may think they should.

Thinking about it some more, the new autosave behavior sort of munges the persistence rules with the profiles. Not sure that is a good idea. The fact that persistence rules and the profiles are separate entities I think is a very good thing. There are aspects of the persistence rules I don't necessarily agree with, but I do understand the "why" for many of those persistence rule behavior choices. The persistence rules behavior thoughts are certainly topic for another thread perhaps. In my case the profiles being rigid and not changed until I explicitly do so helps mitigate the persistence rules behaviors that can be annoying to me.
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Al / NN4ZZ

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Hi Eric,
I have just a few profiles and rarely change them. They basically just manage my power settings by band and I have one for barefoot and one for “amp on”

I occasionally tweak the power setting but rarely want to have that change to permanently affect the profile. But since my changes are rare I would use either the “Save Off” or the “Prompt Me” option. The prompting would be rare so not an issue.

I could see that when setting up a new profile the “autosave” could be helpful and the prompting would be excessive but that is not something I do since my profiles are the way I like them now.

Regards, Al / NN4ZZ
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Ray Andrews, K9DUR, Elmer

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Eric,

Yes, a prompt after every change would be gruesome.  But a single prompt when closing the client or selecting a new profile would be more in line with the way many other programs work.  

In any event, I fully support being able to defeat the AutoSave feature.  In my opinion, it totally destroys the usefulness of profiles.  I see a profile as a known operating environment that is a benchmark that I can return to whenever desired.  If at anytime you need to temporarily change something, you have just destroyed your benchmark.

The simplest approach is probably just an "On/Off" option.  (Of course, as a programmer, I realize that absolutely nothing is simple.)

73, Ray, K9DUR
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Rich McCabe

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"Yes, a prompt after every change would be gruesome.  But a single prompt when closing the client or selecting a new profile would be more in line with the way many other programs work.  "

Yes, that is what I think.

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Steve

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Seems like LOTS of people want the option to save or not, put me on the list.  All applicable reasons have already been mentioned and I agree.  PSDR had multiple options to deal with profiles.  Not understanding programming is this a lot of work??  Anyway thanks for asking for opinions
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Dick / KC9YRA

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Eric

Thanks for responding to this Auto Save issue.  We all have our reasons for like or dislike of the auto save feature.  We each have our reasons for creating a profile, how we use it and when we want to save it.  I fall on the dislike side.  I have about 30 different Global and 30 Transmit profiles created.  I mainly operate digital modes with low power (10w). The Transmit profiles are tailored for each Band and each Mode of operation.  I have just few Microphone profiles.  I use these profiles to switch between bands and modes rapidly.  Knowing that The Radio will be ready to operate when the profile is loaded is a comforting.  I do make changes to transmit profiles on the fly, but usually do not want to save them as they are temporary.  Having to reload the original saved profile is time consuming with the auto save feature.

When exiting SSDR or changing to a different profile.  Give us the flexibility to choose whether to save or not to save.  Use the standard pop up window that’s used in many applications when changes are detected.  “Do you want save Changes YES or NO”. It seems the Transmit and Microphone name adds a * in front of the name so it knows that a change has occurred.  This would allow us as operators to decide if we want to save the changes or not.  That would satisfy both likes and dislikes.

Dick KC9YRA







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Tim K9WX

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Eric: I may have been the customer you referenced in your original post regarding a Saturday conversation at Dayton.  If so, you did an excellent job of summarizing how I have used profiles (a 40m CW HP global profile, for example) and the problem the auto save functionality has created for me.  Or I have a doppelganger out there, at least when it comes to profile management. 

I use 12 global profiles for various combinations of modes, power and number of panadapters (which for me means single radio vs. SO2R).  They serve as “super memories” in that they allow me to quickly set all important operating parameters for a given operating scenario and I then only need to pick a specific frequency to begin operations.  Having invested considerable time in creating these profiles, I want the decision to update one of them to be very intentional: the last time I did a profile export was in late February.  I’m sure I have made minor, on-the-fly adjustments since then, but apparently I never made any adjustment where I thought the new setup was worth saving.  My approach falls apart if profiles are auto saved.  I have been a Flex owner for not quite one year so I can’t claim a particularly high level of expertise, but the legacy functionality works well for me and I don’t see how to make the new functionality work as well.

When I sat down at the radio today, I thought that perhaps memory channels (section 23.3 of the user guide for V2.4.9) might provide the functionality I was looking for.  But I tested this just now and they are a no-go.   Memory channels include power settings but do not include the rest of a TX profile; specifically, they do not include the enabled/disabled status for the RCA TX ports used to key my amplifier.  I found I could easily get into a scenario where I thought I would be operating at low power but instead would be sending 100 watts into the amplifier with the amp in operate mode.

I’ve also wondered if a program like FRStack might provide me with the functionality I need to create recallable “super memories” for my various operational scenarios, but I have so far resisted the urge to investigate.  I would prefer that basic operational functionality come from SSDR itself.

When we spoke on Saturday you mentioned the help desk problem that drove the auto-save change and I respect Flex’s need to respond to that.  Hopefully you will find a way forward.  I can’t say what would be involved on your end from a programming perspective, but having the auto-save option be user-selectable would work for me.

Tim K9WX




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Duane N9DG

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This is very much the same way I use profiles too. I have various profiles that have various combinations of different multi (simultaneous) bands, modes, spectrum displays and slices within those spectrum displays, and DAX settings of various combinations.

"Super memories" really does capture essence of what profiles can be.

I have worked with FRStack in the past and it did not provide the configuration and overall radio configuration definition and capabilities that the profiles do. Having consistent and deliberately tailored profiles in SSDR really is the key.

Certainly the simplest solution is the option to totally disable the new auto save behavior if a user chooses to do so.
(Edited)
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Eric - KE5DTO, Official Rep

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@Tim -- yes, I wasn't going to call you out.  :)  But thank you for helping me to understand what wasn't working well for you with the new Profile Auto Save feature.  I'm certain that we can come up with something that lets us have our cake and eat it too.  Lots of good suggestions already in this conversation.  Thanks again.
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Doug

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Eric I think the amount of input on this thread is proof enough this is not a popular choice for many. (the auto save). IMHO a good compromise to this issue would be the option to toggle this auto save feature on/off. No one wins or looses this way and each gets it "their way". Just my 2-cents worth) and for the record I like the option to toggle on/off.
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Eric - KE5DTO, Official Rep

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Thanks for the input Doug.  I appreciate all of the feedback given here.  Very helpful.
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K3SF

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If auto save feature is going to be toggled on and off, it would be a good idea to have some kind of indicator on main display it’s current state. Rather than having to go hunting for it. Especially for the M models.
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Rich McCabe

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For me if you were prompted before closing SSDR or switching profiles with a message that says "Transmit profile XYZ has changed, do you want to save settings YES or NO"

I would be thrilled with that. Because the auto save does work in your favor often.Just nice to chose when.

73,
Rich
kd0zv

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Logan, KE7AZ

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This is exactly how the Prompt option works in my original posting.  I should have been more explicit to make this clear. 

It also occurred to me that with MultiFlex, another benefit of selecting when Autosave is active or not  is that you could turn it off when the radio has multiple users so that profiles aren't changed accidentally.

Logan, KZ6O
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Eric - KE5DTO, Official Rep

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In general, we avoid pop-ups as much as possible.  Many find them annoying (including several of us on the development team).  Reason being that typically you are doing something else (like closing SmartSDR) and you don't want to be prompted to make a decision at that point.  It gets "in the way" of doing what you're trying to do.  There are also scenarios that must be dealt with like when shutting down Windows with SmartSDR open.  Do you prompt then?  We will likely try to come up with a solution that doesn't require barraging you with pop up questions.
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John - AF3K

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Eric,

I strongly prefer the original way - a saved profile should be sacrosanct.  I've spent hours making profiles and really don't want them changed or overwritten automatically.

A compromise might be letting on-the-fly changes persist in some other fashion without overwriting the original profile.

Keep up the good work.

John, AF3K
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Roger, W6VZV

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You said that very well.  A saved profile should be sacrosanct absent a conscious effort to change it by re-saving it under the same name with modified settings.  I cannot imagine why anyone finds that confusing.  If someone forgets to do that, it's on them.  Having idle tweaks become part of the profile with no warning to the user defeats the entire value of profiles.  I cannot imagine why Flex would make a change like this with no meaningful notice to the user base and no prior discussion.
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Chris Tate - N6WM, Elmer

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Generally my wish for this would be for the ability to make changes and have them be persistent, but not write that setting permanently to the profile.  It should be easy to reload the profile and have it snap back to where it was.  This is an argument for a persistence database or file that stays that way for the duration of the current profile load, but can easily be reverted to the dialed in settings quickly by reloading the original.
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John - K3MA

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If you are sharing your radio with other users and they need to sign in to SmartLink with your ID and password it becomes a problem to have each user change settings to what they prefer and have them saved automatically.  Having profiles for each user plus the backup profiles creates a list of profiles that is to long to manage.  If you have ever tried to switch profiles on a Maestro that has a list longer than the single panel then you know what I mean.

If each user had their own Smartlink id and password and their profiles only showed while operating then this would be better.  However, I still prefer to keep the number of profiles to a small number to cover the common use scenerios.
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Eric - KE5DTO, Official Rep

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John -- great input.  Thanks for the ideas.  We did consider this when implementing the multiFLEX profile functionality.  Ultimately, we decided that especially for transmit profiles, they are more oriented around the the radio than the operator typically.  So how much power you can put out and whether the amp is inline feels like something that should probably be shared.

I can definitely see your argument for Mic profiles though as this is typically unique for each user and/or microphone input.  We'll consider this.  Thanks again for the input.
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Rich McCabe

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This is almost as good as when Icom asked opinions and assistance on design changes.  Oh wait..

:)

Thanks Eric!

73



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Rick WN2C

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So with all this profile saving, how much memory does this take and how soon will it be full?
I too think an On/ Off approach is best.
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Eric - KE5DTO, Official Rep

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You can save many many memories before this becomes a concern.  Like thousands of them.  I don't think this is a practical issue.
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Ed Stallman

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I'll simply vote for on / off  
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Johan / SE3X

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Count me in, on/off sounds great. I as many others use profiles as a way to get back to a known set of settings. Any auto changes makes them useless.
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Bill -VA3WTB

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Eric, The profile system in the Flex is such a powerful tool. It really is one thing that sets Flex apart from all other radios. Other radios have some sort of profiles options yes, but none are as slick and powerful as Flex profiles. Profiles is the heart of the operating system. Being able to change modes and bands with hundreds of settings staying as we want them in a flash is a working feature that just can't be messed with.

Coodos to Flex for bringing us in on a discussion that will turn out to be a turning point, mark my words..lol
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Joe N3HEE

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I also vote for On/Off or Always, Prompt, Never switches.  

Let's rap this debate up and talk about other long time requested feature enhancements like NB, NR, ANF, etc. in a new thread while Flex is listening and interacting with us.

Good stuff !! 


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Bill -VA3WTB

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No debate here..lol
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k3Tim

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Will auto-save reduce the life of the SD card?  They are limited to number of write cycles and even with wear leveling. 

I'd prefer the old method of saving only upon user input. 

_..--
k3TiM
 
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Joe N3HEE

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Modern SD cards have at least 100,000 write cycles.  That's a whole lot of auto saving !
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K1UO - Larry

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and if saving to an SD card the profiles do not get lost when the PC blows up!..  Don't ask how I know this...
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Roger, W6VZV

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I wonder.  I make numerous changes for every operating cycle -- everything from Mic gain to power levels.  Another reason to hate auto-saving.  I don't want to have to be shipping my Flex back for a new card.
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Eric - KE5DTO, Official Rep

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We calculated that if we save once a second 24/7/365, the units should last several decades.  I don't think this will be a limiting factor.
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k3Tim

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That's good news, thanks Eric...

_..--
TiM

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