Profile Auto Save Discussion

Bill -VA3WTB

Eric, The profile system in the Flex is such a powerful tool. It really is one thing that sets Flex apart from all other radios. Other radios have some sort of profiles options yes, but none are as slick and powerful as Flex profiles. Profiles is the heart of the operating system. Being able to change modes and bands with hundreds of settings staying as we want them in a flash is a working feature that just can't be messed with.

Coodos to Flex for bringing us in on a discussion that will turn out to be a turning point, mark my words..lol

Joe N3HEE

I also vote for On/Off or Always, Prompt, Never switches.  

Let's rap this debate up and talk about other long time requested feature enhancements like NB, NR, ANF, etc. in a new thread while Flex is listening and interacting with us.

Good stuff !! 

Bill -VA3WTB

No debate here..lol

Eric-KE5DTO

You can save many many memories before this becomes a concern.  Like thousands of them.  I don't think this is a practical issue.

k3Tim

Will auto-save reduce the life of the SD card?  They are limited to number of write cycles and even with wear leveling. 

I'd prefer the old method of saving only upon user input. 

_..--
k3TiM
 

Joe N3HEE

Modern SD cards have at least 100,000 write cycles.  That's a whole lot of auto saving !

K1UO Larry

and if saving to an SD card the profiles do not get lost when the PC blows up!..  Don't ask how I know this...

Roger_W6VZV

I wonder.  I make numerous changes for every operating cycle -- everything from Mic gain to power levels.  Another reason to hate auto-saving.  I don't want to have to be shipping my Flex back for a new card.

K3SF

If auto save feature is going to be toggled on and off, it would be a good idea to have some kind of indicator on main display it’s current state. Rather than having to go hunting for it. Especially for the M models.

Eric-KE5DTO

We calculated that if we save once a second 24/7/365, the units should last several decades.  I don't think this will be a limiting factor.

k3Tim

That's good news, thanks Eric...

_..--
TiM

Mike VE3CKO

What about this compromise. Profiles created and saved do not get updated unless get re-written by the user. Changes or tweaks made on the fly would then AutoSave to the same profile name but with an asterisk in front. All the original profiles remain unchanged and we then can select the AutoSaved (*) profile if we wanted. So there will the usual list of profiles in alphabetical order then a list below of said profiles with asterick in front of said profile that was tweaked and AutoSaved. This would solve both problems, the issue prior to AutoSave and the apparent dislike by some of the AutoSave feature as it sits currently.

You are prompted for nothing, your saved profiles are untouched and changes/tweaks get safely saved with a clear name distinction.

While discussing profiles,using the mouse pointer to scroll through the various profiles is awkward. PLEASE add mouse scrolling to the sidebar as with when you mouse over volume you can use mouse scrolling.

Joe N3HEE

I get that your idea would preserve the original profile but I'm not sure why you would want to recall an autosaved profile. Would you remember what changes were made to it after a few days or weeks time.  I want to load a profile with known settings every time.  It would also double the file count and for folks with 50 or 100 profiles that would be a mess to sort through.  I would rather have a option to turn autosave on or off.

Rich McCabe

I would agree with Joe on this. I do not want anything extra written to my profiles. I would still like to be prompted somehow that a change has been made. I agree with Eric's comments about pop-ups with saving but it would not be an issue with me here.

Maybe three options to make everyone happy
1) Autosave profile changes
2) Do not autosave profile changes
3) Prompt to save profile changes.

Then everyone gets what they want.

Steve K9ZW

Would allowing specific features being "user locked" to avoid being changed by autosave allow the flexibility some users are looking for?

Would retaining the pre-updated profiles by copying them in the autosave process could have some merit too?

Expanded - I could as a user lock settings that while I might fiddle with them in a session, would not be overwritten in an autosave routine.  Sort of opting out of autosave for a specific purpose.

Then when I do trigger an autosave routine a backup gets shoved into a backup profiles folder with the date/time appended to the profile name.  

I would imagine the majority would run with autosave, but if I had something special in profiles to protect equipment or because I tweaked settings "just so" I could reduce the likelihood of losing those settings.

I'm undecided whether to suggest that a "user lock" has to be removed to allow any changes being saved, or whether a "user lock" just stops the autosave making changes to that setting.  Perhaps a "user lock" would require a confirmation step before the user could change and save a setting - basically protecting them from themselves?

73

Steve
K9ZW

73

Steve
K9ZW

Joe N3HEE

Let's not overcomplicate this folks.  It's simple.  A global setting to enable or disable autosave.  Default set to enable.  Done deal.  Everyone wins ! 

No confusing file copies to understand or maintain, no annoying user prompts to deal with. 

Let's get some consensus on this soon so Flex can implement it.

Mike VE3CKO

Currently autosave modifies the currently selected profiles which is what prompted the thread. My suggestion simple renames what profile it saves to be adding an asterisk in front of the name thus preserving original saved profile. Though there is disagreement, there was a very good reason for adding autosave as stated by Eric. "problems related to "losing" settings after they had set them up".
The original or *autosaved profile could be recalled.
No annoying prompting necesary or needed.   Enabling/disabling *autosave feature would still be desirable for those who don't want new files automatically created.

ctate243

More discussion is needed.  I MUCH prefer the idea of having changes saved for the duration of the profile load, but NOT permanently written to the profile.  This seems the most logical and useful approach and from my perspective, in this respect everyone winds.  thus if you want to revert you just reload the profile.  Simple.

k0eoo

Eric, I like the auto save feature, glad Flex included it!  As long as I know it does it I can make sure any changes I make I give a new name to or change it back.  

Thanks again Eric, Dennis, k0eoo

David Decoons, wo2x

I agree with Chris’ suggestion. Make it persistent until next profile load. Dave wo2x

Mack

Agree

Mack
W4AX
Alpha Team

Bill -VA3WTB

I don't get the feeling Flex is looking for a consensus from us, only ideas. Eric and the team will sit down and look over our comments and decide what to do.

Rich McCabe

So basically undo the changes and go back to what it was before?

Joe N3HEE

It already is persistent until the next profile load.  Not sure how your suggestion helps ?

Bill -VA3WTB

I still see the change on the fly panel as a really good thing, having all the settings show in one common place. It's just the way it is implemented.

ctate243

@Joe N3HEE:
Currently the changes are being written to the profile on the fly.  (In fact there is a way to revert now, by re IMPORTING a profile.)  Its an extra step and a bit cumbersome.  My desire is to basically define a currently selected profile as a "session".  during the "session" the changes are persistent, and will remain intact.  you can for instance, adjust your power on a band, switch to a different one, come back and have those adjustments remain intact.  But at any time I would want to revert back to the baseline instantly by simply re-selecting the profile.  In the next post I will give an example of why this makes sense.

ctate243

So.  lets say you are calling a dx station with an amp. You are using a profile you have dialed in for the amp.  you are calling so often that the amp heats up and your power drops, so you nudge it up a bit.  and.. boom you get the ATNO.  you shut down and go eat dinner.

You come back to your radio, and you call another station.. woah.. you are running 1600 watts.  OOPS.  (amp has cooled down.  more power out).  As it stands right now, you would have to re-adjust the power again, and that would again be written to the profile.

If you could just revert to your original settings be reloading the profile, you would be right where you need to be. 

now when you add multiple bands/slices/adapters to the mix you can see how in its current state you can easily loose control of all those settings you took lots of time to dial in.  It would be easier just to re-select the profile you dialed in, and you are back at your optimal starting point on all accounts, without the extra step of having to re-import your baseline.


Make sense?

ctate243

So rather than updating the baseline profile, the changes after a profile load should be written to a currently loaded profile persistence file (rather than the actual profile itself) and maintained for the duration of the current profile load.  when you re-select the profile, that current loaded profile persistence file is reset, restoring all the hard work you have done dialing in your baseline settings.

Eric-KE5DTO

I agree on the problems with accessing the profiles in the drop down list.  I added issue #7536 to address this.  Thanks for reminding me about this.

Eric-KE5DTO

I appreciate the ideas, but I'm thinking towards something simpler to keep it nice and clean.