Flexradio 6600 vs 8600?

Thanks Mike for the info. Some Notes:

* Still proudly wear the "croud-funding reward" 6700 signature series jacket
* Still have the first Canadian 6700 which is still the best radio I've seen/owned since 1961
* Survived the first 6700 PEN to upgrade the processing power
* Seen many improvements since SmartSDR V0 early release (not a typo)
* Happy to see my suggestion of softening the "brick wall" filter option to hear off filter signals implemented
* Surprised the 6700 is still the high-end flagship radio. Expected a 6800 and 8800 replacement
*** VERY Sad to not see the phased diversity, even with the 6700 performance PEN. Still works well for 10 years on the 5000 series with PC computing power. Perhaps Steve may explain why it came off the road-map and if it may potentially ever come to 6700 fruition.

Also thanks Mike for your community support, even if, at times, you become a politician!

I

Diversity Reception with Phase Cancelation is alive and working well in PowerSDR. It only works with the dual receiver Flex 5000A. And it "should " work in SmartSDR with radios that have dual SCU's. I have only dabbled with Diversity Reception in SmartSDR as it doesn't have Phase Cancelation, so I don't know how well it would or could possibly work for Phase Cancelation.

James

WD5GWY

well personally I would recommend to any one that asks “Don’t by a Flex until software gets out of stagnant mode”. What’s the point of new hardware running the same clunky software.

Quite a bleak outlook Russ. I am not entirely sure of the corporate structure of Flex Radio. But, it has been a family run business in the past.

James

WD5GWY

Interesting comments Russ. Probably closer to the mark than many of us would like. I have felt many of the frustrations you mentioned over the years being a Flex customer. Most of my frustrations are related to the software. And now, being told that some of the things that were mentioned as upcoming features for SmartSDR in the 6000 series radios, may not be available without upgrading to the newer radios. And it makes one wonder if the new hardware will actually provide the needed resources to actually inspire Flex Radio to deliver those features sooner than later. ( or be put on the back burner again)

The original roadmap that Flex Radio once published really came back to bite them when customers ( me included) complained about them delaying or not delivering a full working feature that was on the roadmap. So, instead of trying to up their game and improve or add wanted features, they simply stopped sharing software goals with their customers. I guess this way, when someone complains about a missing or incomplete feature, they can honestly say, we never promised that. Or if it is acknowledged at all, they can say it's on their list to do. But, when they will get around to actually fixing or adding a requested feature, is not shared anymore.

The only reason I am interested in the new radios is for repairability in the future. But, I don't count on anything beyond that. More than likely, I will use my 6600M till it is no longer serviceable. And for other features I consider important and wish my 6600M had, I have other radios that provide those features. ( a 5000A with dual receivers for fully featured Diversity Reception with Phase Cancelation. An Anan 8000DLE for fantastic noise reduction and other features that my 6600M either doesn't have or is not fully implemented)

By the way, I understand about getting long winded. I'm 73 and tend to be that way myself.

James

WD5GWY

@Russ Ravella wrote:

You'd never believe it from that post but I'm actually an unabashed Flex fanboy through and through. Flex is a very weird company - a lot of very good and a lot of very not good. It's so weirdly polar. Even though it's SO much less than it could be and clearly always will be… what it is is still pretty amazing, at least to me.

This. Right here. This is why asking “will it sell more radios” is the wrong question. It leads to users feeling what Mr Ravella describes so aptly in his last post.

And it’s sooo unnecessary. Decide, every day, to delight your customers. Empower your PM and engineering teams to do those things. It might cost you a couple of dollars in the short run. But in the long run? You win big time.

I feel a lot like how Mr. Ravella describes. Flex is successful despite the “good enough” and “will it sell more radios” approach. I love my Flex radio. A lot. But I can’t help think that it could be so much more. If ham radio weren’t a niche market, Flex would be positioning themselves for a challenger to take their market share.

@W2PP wrote:

If more customers buy something, by extension they are delighted or they wouldn't be buying it in the first place.

Not at all! It simply means the product is perceived by customers as “the best available option” given the customer’s need and constraints. It has nothing at all to do with whether the customers are delighted.

Flex would be entirely foolish to make major decisions based on a help center forum.

We are indeed on different planets when it comes to management philosophy. In my world, one listens closely to one’s most passionate users. Perhaps even cultivates their feedback and caters to them. Not to the exclusion of any other feedback, but as a key and valuable data point.

One thing I really like about Flex is that its staff always seems pleased to talk with me and answer my questions at the Hamvention dinners, at its large Hamvention booth, or on the phone in response to a help desk ticket. After seeing the 8000 series introduction at the Thursday dinner, I had to wait on line at the booth Friday morning to order an 8600M.

Well said, Sergey. Right on the nose. Your last paragraph in particular is very pertinent from my perspective but all of your comments are so true.

For the reasons you state I may acquire the 8400M and keep the 6400M as back up. Since being licensed in 1985, I have never used predistortion and that has never done me any harm. So I won't be buying it for that. No SD card is a plus. That the 8000 M model controls still don't click and that the mic gain particularly is nudged when adjusting power is a negative. More CPU power helps and future proofing rates as its most important aspect for me too, especially as spec and features are not advertised in any detail as you already point out. The RX performance is, I suspect, identical to the 6000 series despite room for improvement including in noise mitigation, etc.

Overall a damp squib ( a situation or event which is much less impressive than expected ). Yet, even without meaningful product changes that could have resulted in many new customers or increased benefits realized by existing customers, coupled with a peculiar marketing strategy, Flex are still the best.

Erik EI4KF

Thanks Erick for reposting the Video!

Thanks very Much Mike and Steve for posting the Video, It answers a lot of my questions and hope others. I hope the momentum with Flex's higher up's continues to let the Amateur community see some real progress with Software and hardware design.

There has been a lot of Negativity but that's what happens when someone wants to be heard who sometime in the past has gotten sour milk so to speak and that is their right to do so.

Again I appreciate what Flex is doing and the wonderful support team and engineers that work for Flex and I look forward seeing what is around the corner for the 8000 series.

Afterall, 2010 when the 6000 series was introduced with the 6700 is a LONG time ago in the Radio world, How many radios has ICOM and Yaesu released since then.

I still run my Original Signature series 6700 and it is BY FAR the best radio I have owned and I have owned a lot of them over the years and keep going back to the 6700.

Michael, Flex obviously want to increase sales.

Publish a roadmap and timeline for a new features! It will help you and your Customers.

Sergey

Thanks for posting the link to the video. Best I can tell, it basically rehashes everything that has already been posted here and elsewhere. But, a couple of important things ( to me at least) is how long will the 6000 radios be supported, both hardware and software wise? From all that I can gather, M model users ( 6400M and 6600M) are out of luck should the front panel module fail. And if the users of those radios still want the features of an all in one, knobbed radio, then their only choice is having the front panel disabled and buying a Maestro C to use instead of the front panel. Not necessarily a cheap alternative. Plus, it defeats the idea of having a radio that has everything in one place and only needs a microphone, powered speakers and an antenna to quickly ( after a minute or so bootup time) be on the air.

Everything I have been told is the front panel module for the 6400M and 6600M are no longer available. And Flex Radio doesn't have a source for affordable replacement modules.

So, the only other choice is buy a used M model 6000 radio, and if you want to stay with Flex Radio's, buy all new.

And given what I heard in the posted video, there may or may not be anything that the new radios can do that would make me want to spend more money to possibly get updates to long standing feature problems or new features that may or may not, materialize in the no so distant future.

Still on the fence.

James

WD5GWY