Heatsinks are falling off in 6400 and 6600 models.

Tom Teague

As part of the Product Enhancement Notification (PEN) or Recall.  If you want to know where to look to
see if both of your heatsinks are in place and have not fallen off.  Here are some photos to look at.
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WV9L

Looks like a poor design flaw.  Using an epoxy to mount a heatsink in a vertical position, in a poorly circulated area. With that divider, no air will flow. Due to the small size, and thus small amount of epoxy holding it, im sure its getting warm and weak, then falling off. I guess the PEN, stands for Poor Engineering Notification. I hate to see all you guys going thru this. Im glad i held off on trading my 6500 in now.

WV9L

Im curios..... i run remote 99% of the time and run a lot of FT-8. My shack is in a detached shop behind the house. I Have it climate controlled, but i keep the A/C set at 78-80 out there, when im not out there. I also added a fan that blows on the back of my rig for extra cooling, SDRMonitor on my PC, that shows the temp on the rig (http://k9dur.info/smartsdr_utilities.html). But when running FT-8 pretty hard, i will see temps hit 140F on it. Im wondering in these units, with that divider, if the surface temp on these is getting higher yet?
I dont know how they expect to keep these things alive like this.

With the amount of area available, i would think that having a board mounted off that back wall then allowing the boards to be mounted horizontally would help a great deal. Having such a small component mounted by epoxy only, and in a vertical position to boot, with no ventilation to keep said epoxy from becoming heated and weak, is a poor idea. Especially when that component it is trying to cool is so crucial.

WV9L

Great pics by the way. Im sure this will be helpful to many.

Bill -VA3WTB

As I study the design of the radio it looks to be very good.
The problem is, the epoxy supplied from the manufacturer was not up to the task. When  the problem was detected early in production the epoxy was changed to a more secure product. While they are at it the new heat sinks are larger as well.

The heat sinks on the 6500 are held with epoxy as well and they are mounted hanging up side down.

David Salomon

So how do I know if my unit has the old or new epoxy?

Robert Lonn

I was here when last year a LG service Tech showed up to do a board swap on my 8 month old $3000 LG 4K HDR TV set... When it comes to Vertical PC boards, everything is in the TV set, only way they can keep the TV set THIN in size.. I was also surprised how small the switching power supply was. I am looking for the picture I took, but I recall something like 4 or 5 heat sinks all attached to Chips.. Not much else they could do due to the nature of the design criteria.. No fan installed in the TV set..

The replacement board was slightly different, and it was all around heat sinks, several were physically bigger in size... So I came to the conclusion the problem was related to most likely heat build up,, but my home is fully Air Condition, so the room never gets above 75 deg hear in Southern California... LG is a very large Japanese company, so one would think this should never happen,, but in many cases it is the Chip manufacturer that sets the standard for their own devices,, just the nature of manufacturing. 

Years ago the term Boat Anchor was very common, big heavy tube radios... I still have 4 in the shack myself..  My 6600M is very light in weight,, and I like that,, my 65" TV set weighs about 57lbs, but my previous 59" Samsung PLASMA TV set took 2 people to lift it up at nearly 100 lbs... Weight does not  = Better in 2018.. Some folks might think the 6400-6600M does not have that Heavy Feel one has come accustom to with previous radios from Yaesu-Icom and Kenwood.. I was moving some things around in the shack, one was my Icom IC-9100 used for VHF-UHF-1.2GHz for Satellite radio.. That radio weighs a whopping 26 lbs.. That is a heavy radio.. And it has a fan even with all the metal inside.. But the Icom IC-9100 is a great radio for Satellite, but falls short when it comes to the HF bands and what it can do, and compared to the Flex,, it cant even come close to recovering quality audio... SDR are a different breed of radio.. It is all about CHIP technology and Software to run the device.. The reason the box is as large as it is, is it has the 8" display on the front.. just like the bigger the TV screen, the larger the overall size, (Yes that is a breakthrough observation  :-) ,,,

Robert

Mark WS7M

Regarding the PEN... I was notified on my 6600 which so far is not experiencing any issues.  So I went to the site and filled out the form supplying serial number etc.  

I elected to do the heatsinks myself and the remainder later in a queue.  I have received absolutely no response to filling out the form.  No instructions or any other information.

Anyone else or did my form request get lost in the ether?

Wayne

I just sent my PEN form response in yesterday after I saw the picures to be safe and get it. The web site indicated it would be shipped within a week after the submission of the response form.

I see the fan on the left but it seems isolated from the other side of the cabinet but there does appear to be plenty of room if you wanted to add a 2nd fan on the other side and even put a jack in the panel to run external power to the fan added. Hmmm... maybe after the warranty is expired .. :-)

Steven WA8Y

I did the same thing, same no feedback or acknowledgement of receipt.

Craig Williams

1 - It appears some Flex owners are not very patient. It's a small, custom shop. You would expect sometimes they get backed up. On the other side Flex can get cutting edge to the market sooner. Look at the big Japanese companies falling all over themselves to catch up years after the Flex 1000 was invented.
2 - The "glue" is wrong from the chip manufacturer. Would you not assume that the mechanical engineers that designed the glue heat sink combination knew what they were doing or would you expect Flex to reverse engineer every part they buy?
3 - People complaining about the vertical heat sink never worked in the electronics manufacturing industry. See those fins on the heat sink? When vertical they create a convection airflow. Hot air rises pulling in colder air from the bottom. Unless you have positive air flow over the heat sink always try to make it vertical. 

As to no fan on that side of the box. I assume if the Flex engineers are smart enough to design these radios they are smart enough to do thermal testing on them before the design is finalized. I learned how to do that in the 60's as a bench technician at Cubic. I assume the Flex engineers are at least as smart as I am.

Mark WS7M

I think your blanket statement about patience is wrong.  I am very patient and remained with flex through all issues.  But when an "official" notification comes out telling you to do something, you do it, then receive empty silence two things come to mind:

1) Did my request actually make it into the system?
2) Do I need to do anything more?

In this case it would be nice to at least have an acknowledgement (like when you buy you radio) that you are in the queue.

Regarding the "glue".  It happens.  Our company manufactures bio-medical instruments to extreme tolerances.  5 years after release we are still dealing with ECOs and changes to designs, materials etc.   I have ZERO issues with the glue.  Flex is doing the right thing by fixing it.

Heatsink vertical - No issue again.  Our instrument has lots of boards, lots of heatsinks.  We generally **** them to the board.   The instruments we make average cost if $500000.00 +.   So we figure that **** mounting critical components with worth it.

Robert Lonn

Craig,,, Correct on all fronts, and Flex Never placed all the blame on the supplier, they identified the problem and how to resolve it.. and you mentioned Cubic!!! Were you in San Diego, or still in San Diego???

Wayne

1. - I would not expect much patience from any consumer that pays a significant amount of money for a product whether it be a radio, a tv, a vehicle or a house and then within 30 days has difficulty with the product regardless of what type of product it is but this is only my opinion.

2. If the glue is wrong and the manufacturer discovered it then they will correct it, however if the manufacturer has no issues with the glue and it is only happening in this application then it may be a deeper issue, especially if the part has been provided for a significant time with no issues brought to the part manufacturer's attention.

3. I don't know about the heat sinks not being an engineer I just know that when I mounted a 1ft power **** vertically and used double sided tape 3 strips within 2 days the power **** fell off the cabinet but when I put the power **** horizontal with tape it stayed in place.

I have really tried to word this carefully and not be negative or disrespectful of anyone but would like to express this point of view, since it has been pointed out that some of my previous posts have not met the criteria desired. This is only my opinion and my expectations I have as a consumer over the past 50 years.

FRED W9TB

I just took the cover off my 6600m and the heat sinks have fallen off. I ordered the heat sink kit the first day and have heard nothing. I was told by Mike in sales to tie them back on with string till I get the kit.

mikeatthebeach .

Try a Wide Rubber Band !

FRED W9TB

I sent e-mail to the pen address and 30 min later got a reply saying they would get the kit out to me today.

K5ROX

No response to me either, been maybe 2 weeks since fill form as they asked.

Wayne

Is the heat sink issue more likely to occur on the 6600 models than the 6400 models since there are 2 scus and more heat generated withon? Om wondering if I need to check my 6400M before receiving the heat sink kit.

K5ROX

String...... please tell me your kidding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Again I just don't get Flex...... a heatsink(conductive piece ) floating around in an electronic device should be an EMERGENCY..... not a well get to it sooner or later.

Robert Lonn

One of the reasons that I went with Flex was in part this community.. I also commented that most Flex users are NOT the so called Appliance Dealers, CB Operators who get a ham licenses and ask what does 50 ohms mean!!  Most of you are more likely to be software or other types of engineers.. I think in part Flex knows this, and the reason they allowed many of us to repair the heat sink if we wanted to do it..

They have a lot of faith in their customers.. And I dont blame them when you read comments about an issue who are describing a problem, in very explicit verbiage... Let me say that those that purchase Icom, Yaesu, Kenwood are not as talented as many of you are, many are Ham Radio Engineers!! ...

Most of us have other radios in the shack besides Flex... I have a lot of SWL type radios,,, Grundig, Sony, Panasonic, AOR, Drake, Nordmende, Philips, Sangean probably over a Hundred Radios that all get Shortwave and AM-FM-LW-MW.. Then comes the Boat Anchors, Collins, Hallicrafters, ITT Marine, Racal, Eddystone.... So I have plenty to play with when the Flex is in the OFF mode.. 

However Flex is the first radio that has Spoiled me! The recovered Audio is so good, that it makes the rest of my radios sound like they are underwater!!! But then those others are FUN radios to play with and if the shack gets Cold, I just turn on a few of those boat anchors and the shack warms up just fine! :-)

Robert

Bill -VA3WTB

Now that you guys have mentioned it, they are likely looking into it.

Craig Williams

64 to 66 at Cubic. Still in San Diego.

mikeatthebeach .

Rubber Bands are great !
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rubber-Bands-1-thick-3-1-2-Long-Heavy-Duty-Strong-1-Dozen-12-/251079545865

Bill -VA3WTB

what are you checking for wayne? before you get your heat sink

Lionel

If my 6400 goes down I'll start looking for my PEN parts.  The request is in - those whose radio is down need the parts first. 

KS0CW

Are the kits being shipped?

Bill -VA3WTB

K5ROX, they looked after this as soon as the problem was found. What would you suggest they do other than what they are doing. think I will edit this...

What I would like to see is a frequency that all Flexers would meet when they want to.

Robert Lonn

OK!!! I am also in San Diego!!!! Nice to make your acquaintance neighbor!! Robert WA6PHN

Tom W3FRG

I contacted FRS Wednesday and got a reply from Lori Hicks stating that the heat sink rework would start shipping this week. The Pre-Amp enhancement would start sometime in June. 
Owners will receive an email from FRS when they are ready to schedule your radio.

The heat sinks on my 6600M are on solid and I really hate to break them loose. The radio is on 15 to 16 hrs a day, everyday.

While we have the hood open, and looking at the heat sinks, if they have or haven't fallen off, maybe we can go see if those missing caps are really missing?
Just where are they located ?? Hopefully, not hidden on the bottom pcb level.


Tom W3FRG

Mark WS7M

I emailed the PEN address and was notified my kit shipping today.  So it is happening.  Their notification process is not great but they have a lot going on.

They did elaborate that the second part of the PEN will require some patience.  I was told to expect a notice sometime in June.