network question

K0FG_Fred

Running 6400M ver 3.4.23. Plugged the ethernet cable directly into the pc. Run SSDR and watch the network status indicator at the bottom right of the screen, it shows 5 green bars, excellent status. Stays that way.

Then I run profile export and as the export ends there is one red bar on the status indicator. Over the next 15-20 seconds the bars slowly reappear and turn green.

Same behavior when connected to the GB switch.

Tried it several times and it did it the same way every time whether connected to the switch or directly to the pc. Is this normal behavior?

Fred, K0FG

David Decoons, wo2x

When exporting profiles from the radio to PC and upon completion, it sounds like the network connection of the radio’s internal file transfer routine is resetting. If you only see the dip in the network indicator when it completes then I would not worry about it. You probably see the dropped packet count increment by 1 or 2.

If during normal operation you are seeing dropped packets, then I would check your network (cables, router, router settings, RF into network). Otherwise I wouldn’t worry.

Dave wo2x

Mike-VA3MW

What Dave says is correct.

When you do the Link.Local connection, which is a great test that you did, you have narrowed it down to 2 NIC cards. The one on the PC and the one on the radio.

You might try making sure that the NIC card on the PC has its drivers up to date. If you are brave, try hard coding the NIC card on the PC to 100mb/sec full duplex and see if that makes a difference.

73

K0FG_Fred

If it is the NIC card causing a problem why does it only occur during export, never on import? I would think the amount of data being transferred would be nearly the same. Except maybe on export the system creates a new file for the data it is exporting. But still the amount of data should be nearly the same.

On import I may lose one green bar, have never seen it lose more. But on export, right at the time the export finishes all 5 of the green bars turn white except the smallest bar turns red.

Was wondering if this may partially be contributing to the fact that I can hardly ever import all the files that I save, maybe the final portion of the export is not working properly. There are 3 default xmit profiles and I create 4 more and export them. Then I immediately try to import them usually only get 3-4 of the 7 xmit profiles imported. Even tho the other xmit profiles show in the import screen, they just usually do not get imported.

Thanks for the help.

Fred, K0FG

K0FG_Fred

Mike said I just narrowed the problem down to 2 NIC cards, desktop PC or radio. So I loaded SSDR ver 3.4.23 onto my laptop. Disconnected the wifi so the laptop is offline then plugged the radio directly into the laptop. Booted both the radio and laptop.

Exported the profiles and got the same problem as when using the desktop pc. The import worked just fine.

Does this tell us anything? What now?

Fred, K0FG

Arizona Mike

This is not limited to just your issue.

when running my 6600, this happens continuously and regularly. Flex said it’s a network issue. Well, I’m running a 10gb fiber network. It ain’t the network.

K0FG_Fred

Does anyone have any help, comments on this problem?

Fred, K0FG

Mike-VA3MW

@Arizona Mike

What we are learning is that not all networks are created equal even if it is 10Gb Fiber. Speed doesn't always top latency. You think it would, but it doesn't.

We can share things that seem to help with UDP packet streams get fractured. And, since there is limited tools available to debug things, it makes it more challenging. You wouldn't notice at all if it wasn't for the fact that HF radio operation is a real time experience. It is 100% different than all other Network stuff we do. No one cares if your video is slow playing or 100ms behind.

If I ever go back to school for my CCNA, I will be glad to explain it in detail. :)

K0FG_Fred

just posted a new discussion called export problems. Please read it and tell me if it makes sense. I'm totally frustrated by how this is not working. Why can I not write 14kb of files to the ssd in my computer and then read it back successfully?

Fred, K0FG

John WA7UAR

The link to Fred’s posting is here:

https://community.flexradio.com/discussion/8028177/export-problems

K0FG_Fred

Don't know anything about networking so maybe my questions are displaying my ignorance.

When I have no lan connected, the radio is connected directly to the pc by a cat 5e cable about 5 feet long, is latency still a problem? If so then where does the latency enter the system? Is there anything we can do about it?

And I tried that configuration on both my desktop and my laptop and got the same results. Even tried it with a different ethernet cable, same results. Shut down all programs that I could on the different pcs to try to make it faster/better for data xfer. No difference.

Fred, K0FG

Mike-VA3MW

@K0FG_Fred

When operating the radio on a local LAN, the latency will be the same (or almost the same) regardless if it is in link.local mode or connected to a network switch. Based on the tests I ran (because I was curious) it adds about 4-500uS (microseconds) more delay. So small, it is pretty hard to measure.

You do need to think of it this way. If Latency is 100% critical to you, then make sure you never use PC Audio and use the audio from the back of the radio (speaker or headset jacks). This has the fastest performance.

The next biggest impact on latency is not the Network, but the Audio Subsystem in Windows. In V3.4 of SmartSDR we made huge improvements to the audio latency to the point is about as fast as all other methods.

You really need an Oscilloscope to measure it. On one of my tests, I was seeing about 36ms. This is the time it takes a signal to arrive at the antenna and the audio to show up at the headset connector.

BTW, if the Quality indicator is not 100% on a local lan, it is likely a switch issue. Does the problem go away on a link.local test? If yes, you have an issue on your network. Don't forget the Fiber Media converters as they have to buffer and convert the data as well.

BTW, copper is faster than fiber for short distances.

What is key to remember is that networking communications is a very complicated technology. There are thousands of tuning parameters that impact network performance. What you want for real-time communications is different for one that might be in an office environment. Tim, in our support group, has THAT education. I wish I knew 5% of what he knows regarding networking and network tuning. Just follow what the gamers do. It is amazing.