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CW Bug with 6400M internal keyer. Ver. 2.6.1

Paul  KB3ML
Paul KB3ML Member ✭✭
edited June 2020 in SmartSDR for Windows
This one had me going in circles.

  When using CWX memories  and the internal keyer the radio will occasionally lock up in transmit.  It will behave like the t/r relay is sticking and the power button will stay Red indicating transmit.
I first thought it was RF, but ferrites would not help. I even did a Factory reset with no help.

What is happening is if you send with the paddles and send a memory before it has time to drop, it will cause the radio to stay in Transmit mode.  You must press the PTT to unlock the TX.

I sometimes send my call to be sure of his copy and then send the message which causes the problem. I guess I am a little fast on the message button.

This needs corrected in firmware.

«1

Comments

  • KD0RC
    KD0RC Broomfield, COMember, Super Elmer Moderator
    edited June 2020
    Hi Paul, I have been trying to recreate this issue, and cannot make it behave this way.  I am doiing it on a dummy load.  Can you make the issue happen on a dummy load?  If not, then amybe it is RF sneaking in somewhere.

    73,
    Len, KD0RC

    Edit:  I just noticed that you are on V 2.6.1.  I am on V 3.1.11.  That may explain it...
  • Paul  KB3ML
    Paul KB3ML Member ✭✭
    edited May 2020
    Yes, It will show up with a dummy load or antenna with any power output level.

    Just make sure you are still sending with the paddle when you start the memory.

    It also works fine if using an external Memory keyer for the memory.

    Good to see if newer SW versions have it right. 

    TNX.  Len
  • KD0RC
    KD0RC Broomfield, COMember, Super Elmer Moderator
    edited May 2020
    Under 3.1.11, if the key is pressed when I start the memory, it tries to play the memory and whatever is sent by the paddles at the same time.  As soon as I release the paddles, the memory stops and the rig unkeys.  A bit of strange behavior, but no real issue.  I can't be sure that 3.1.11 fixed the issue, but I can't recreate the problem, so I think it is likely the software version.  Maybe someone from Flex can chime in to confirm.

    Len
  • Uwe - DK3WW
    Uwe - DK3WW Member ✭✭
    edited June 2020
    Hello Len, I have exactly the same problem with my Flex6600 and SSDR 3.1.12. The problem should actually be known. The latest updates from SSDR have unfortunately not brought any improvements for CW. It doesn't seem to be a priority ...
    73! Uwe
    DK3WW
  • WW1SS - Steve
    WW1SS - Steve Member ✭✭
    edited June 2020
    Nothing seems to be a priority. CW Bugs, NB don't work ,tuner does not work. But still selling known defective equipment.
  • Uwe - DK3WW
    Uwe - DK3WW Member ✭✭

    Steve: FLEXRADIO makes a lot of money in the military sector, drone controls, etc. That is probably more important than amateur radio and has priority ...

  • Pat_W5WTH
    Pat_W5WTH Keep Radio Fun!!! Member ✭✭

    FWIW, my macros make things on my 6400 wacky if I end them early. It's aggravating.

  • Paul  KB3ML
    Paul KB3ML Member ✭✭

    Very frustrating !

    They have been aware of this problem for about a year now .

    They assigned a trouble ticket to this problem. G7759

    No excuse for such a long wait !

    Paul

  • Lasse SM5GLC
    Lasse SM5GLC Member ✭✭
    edited February 21

    G7759 is not this bug, that is about spurious drop out of power (seems to be OK in 2.4.10).

    What I have seen is when CWX (or any computer generated CW for that matter) and the manual keying get in conflict. What I noticed when using N1MM is that aborting a message by tapping the paddle may leave the radio unsure which keying stream that is in charge. By sending one char on keyboard may "flush" the buffer and revert back to normal, a lot faster than trying to buttons on the Maestro trying to drop the PTT. (Or it may be the other way around one need to tap key to release depending on timing that caused the event )

  • Lasse SM5GLC
    Lasse SM5GLC Member ✭✭

    Come to think that since reverting back to SSDR 2.4.10 I have yet to see this hanging issue! And if I recall correctly there seems a bit less delay, i.e. everything is more responsive than what I remember from 2.6.2.

  • Paul  KB3ML
    Paul KB3ML Member ✭✭

    G7789 is the number I was given when I had my trouble ticket open. I just checked it again.

    That is all I know. I can not argue with that.

    Yes , some times the radio can be unlocked by tapping either paddle to send a character.

    However some times it is necessary to re boot the radio.

    Very frustrating in a contest. I sure wish they can get it right.

    Paul

  • Lasse SM5GLC
    Lasse SM5GLC Member ✭✭

    Paul,

    I just commented on that you posted G7759 :)

    And once again, I have yet to notice the lock-up using 2.4.10...

  • Paul  KB3ML
    Paul KB3ML Member ✭✭

    G7759 is what I was given.

  • Lasse SM5GLC
    Lasse SM5GLC Member ✭✭

    Paul,

    you have me a bit confused, you say: "G7789 is the number I was given..." and the posts "G7759 is what I was given"

    The issue with spurious power drop-out was said to me beeing given G7759. And I assume the G7789 is what the transmit lock-up is about. Correct me if I'm wrong :) And by downgrading from 2.6.2 down to 2.4.10 I have not noticed any of these two bugs! And as a bonus the latency seems to be noticable less.

  • Paul  KB3ML
    Paul KB3ML Member ✭✭

    I was wrong when I sent G7789. poor typing.

    Sorry, The number they gave me with the trouble ticket was G7759.

    I am running 3.1.12 . I am waiting for 3.2 to come.

    After I see 3.2, I may fall back to 2.4.10.

    TNX Paul

  • Ted S
    Ted S Member ✭✭

    Anyone able to confirm if release 3.2.31 fixes the CW drop out bug G7759?

    Ted WR4T

  • Uwe - DK3WW
    Uwe - DK3WW Member ✭✭

    No, the cw dropouts still exist with me...

    73! Uwe

    DK3WW

  • Ted S
    Ted S Member ✭✭

    Well that is disappointing given the info in the release notes about this version improving CW timing. I am running 3.1.12 and use full break-in, which is an effective workaround, but I don't have a QSK amp, so I am hesitant to run QRO until this is nailed down. I think I will sit this upgrade out until the new DHCP bug if fixed.

    Best,

    Ted WR4T

  • Uwe - DK3WW
    Uwe - DK3WW Member ✭✭

    Hi Ted,

    Yes, it's frustrating as a CW OP that nothing happens for so long. During the 7QP yesterday I was very annoyed about these dropouts again.

    And then there was this unspeakable network error. I have to perform a factory reset almost every day if I want to use the radio. There should be a short-term solution for this. I don't believe in it because it's been taking too long now ...

    Yes, it is better to stick with 3.1.12. Downgrading is very cumbersome, so I have to be patient again.

    GL!

    Uwe - DK3WW

  • Mike-VA3MW
    Mike-VA3MW Administrator, FlexRadio Employee, Community Manager, Super Elmer, Moderator admin

    I opened a ticket for this, but I think that has been done already. I've asked for it to be closed.

  • Uwe - DK3WW
    Uwe - DK3WW Member ✭✭

    Thank you, Mike!

    73! Uwe

    DK3WW

  • Mal G3PDH
    Mal G3PDH Member ✭✭

    Yes, I still have the CW drop outs despite supposed improvements to CW timing in 3.2.34.

    This has been going on for nearly 2 years now and is becoming intolerable.

    Back to having to continuously watch the power meter to see if I am still transmitting.

  • Mike-VA3MW
    Mike-VA3MW Administrator, FlexRadio Employee, Community Manager, Super Elmer, Moderator admin

    @Mal G3PDH

    If you are still seeing the same problem on 3.2 or 2.7, I need you to open a support ticket please so that it gets logged.

    Have you done so?

    73

  • Andrew Mitchell
    Andrew Mitchell Member ✭✭
    edited May 11
    I've operated both 6300 and 6600 remotely (our club station) for four CW contests without a drop or a hiccup. Neither are M models. I use a Maestro and N1MM+ (on my local PC).

    73
    Andy
    VA3CW
  • Lasse SM5GLC
    Lasse SM5GLC Member ✭✭

    Mal,

    that's a worrying report! I just upgraded to 2.7.3 and have less than an hour air-time, but so far so good, no drop-outs. I do hope to spend more time and see if things looks OK.

    For those interesting in this specific topic, you have to key the radio directly (not use N1MM or other programs to send) and have a fairly long hang time so you do catch the power drop-out. Once the power is gone, one need to cycle back to RX and then TX again. Hence a full QSK can make it hard to notice.

    /Lasse SM5GLC

  • Mal G3PDH
    Mal G3PDH Member ✭✭

    Mike, No I have not opened a ticket yet. I was going to do some more testing involving using the 6500 internal keyer as well as my normal external keyer which keys via pin 4 on the acc skt. It is strange why this never happens when keying from a macro in N1MM for instance and I assume from CWX memories, but I have not checked CWX carefully. One would have thought that this difference between manual keying and macro based keying would flag up some logical direction of the fault. Will feed back any further results from testing but with the fault so random it takes a long time to check it out.

  • Mal G3PDH
    Mal G3PDH Member ✭✭

    Further to my earlier comment about CW keying and drop outs using latest version 3.2.34 on 6500 with Windows 10.

    After detailed checking I found a poor contact on my paddle feeding the Logikeyer which gave rise to a slow or non start on dots. This may have given the same impression as the drop out whilst keying. After fixing that and checking the CW transmission under test and in actual QSO's I have not yet seen any drop outs of the CW signal. Therefore I will continue to monitor this closely and report back if I see any further evidence of the drop out problem. Hopefully it has now been fixed.

  • Uwe - DK3WW
    Uwe - DK3WW Member ✭✭

    Hello Mal,

    I still have errors with the power dropout and the hanging of the PTT and it is definitely not due to a contact problem with my paddle. I have now opened a ticket, but have not yet received a satisfactory answer. Unfortunately, the update from 3.1.12 to 3.2.34 did not bring any CW improvements. Touching the paddle should usually interrupt an F-key transmission immediately and not cause the PTT to hang. This normal Winkey function has not been integrated into SSDR. And the irregular power dropouts during a contest operation are exactly the same as in the previous version. That’s disappointing...

    73! Uwe

    DK3WW

  • Lasse SM5GLC
    Lasse SM5GLC Member ✭✭

    Uwe,

    I feel your agony and pain! I upgraded fron 2.4.10 to 2.7.3 a few days ago and have only a few hours of air-time, 6500+Maestro and keying directly into radio with paddle and built-in winkey. But so far so good. Not a single drop-out!!! And just launched N1MN+ and ran a few quck messages aborted by paddle, not a single TX-hang. So for me things looks pretty rosey. Maybe you could drop down to 2.7.3 to see if things are better/different?

    Finally it feels like timing is improved for the built-in winkeyer, running QRQ is much eaisier with less errors, it used to be a bit frustrating :)

    /Lasse SM5GLC

  • Uwe - DK3WW
    Uwe - DK3WW Member ✭✭

    Hej Lasse,

    I can't go back to version 2 because I bought the radio ( F6600 ) with version 3. So I can't test it. Unfortunately the integrated winkey emulation is only a very castrated version. I don't know why the timing or synchronization was insufficiently considered. I recently got to play with a SunSDR2+ from a friend. That worked much better in cw, regardless of whether it was slow or high-speed cw. The construction of the Flexradio is really very good. Therefore it is a shame that development was saved at this point. So it means to continue to wait patiently for an improvement. I've set a private deadline by myself until I'll switch to another radio ...

    73! Uwe

    DK3WW

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