Flex 6400M crashed in the middle of running a net

Ron WD5FUN

My 6400M running software version 2.133 crashed this evening while running a 40 meter SSB net.  I had to switch to the Icom IC-7300 in order to complete the net.  I consider this to be a major software bug.  I know that at least 10 other 6400M owners are experiencing the same problem and I know that Tim is aware of the problem and has submitted a problem report.  I would hope that this would be a priority fix.  It is embarrassing to be in the middle of a QSO or Net and have your radio quit working.  This has happened before while not touching any controls.  This is in so many ways a great radio, but this problem is unacceptable. So until this problem is fixed I will have to run the net on my IC-7300.

Mark_WS7M

Ron, what is the nature of the crash?  Is it perhaps related more to the maestro part of the radio or is it one of the blinking button codes?

Ron WD5FUN

It is related to the maestro part of the radio.

Mark_WS7M

Well that is sad.  I hope they come up with a fix quickly.  I have the 6600 non M as I don't think the maestro part would be for me.  Only had my 6600 for 2 days but its been rock solid so far.

Michael Coslo

Is this an equipment failure, or possibly an RF issue?

Elliot Skultin

My company manufacturers and configures embedded PCs. From this perspective, this is only a suggestion to help in identifying a possible cause. It might be a good idea to track the following relating to any radio with lockup issues.
1. Power supply make, model, and capacity. Note: Switchers often briefly drop out in response to overload or faults.
2. RF noise suppression measures employed. See attached picture.
3. Antenna Tuner make and model.
4. Any other loads connected to power supply in addition to the radio.

This info may or may not be useful in identifying commonality with these faults but worth tracking.

Michael Coslo

Side note: I've had two Netgear WiFi Routers that would crash when operating on certain frequencies on 40 meters. The cure was to wrap  the Ethernet cable around a BHFT (Big Honking Ferrite Toroid) The router crash would cause the radio to likewise crash

W8QB

My situation is similar to Ron’s. After powering up my 6400m an error message appeared on the screen; moments later the radio spontaneously powered down. This has happened multiple times. Speculation that the cause is external to the radio simply does not seem credible. I don’t recall this ever happening prior to version 2.1.33.

AH0U

I wonder if it is related to the unexpected crashing of the Antenna Genius???

Michael Coslo

I can be wrong of course - but RFI problems are sneaky devils. Was anything at alll changed? Your description matches exactly what happened to me. Anyhow, it isn't difficult to try out. I've dealt with phantom problems since the late 1990s, and I don't put together a system now without every external cable being run through a toroid on both ends. Anyhow if you are 100 percent certain that it is not a problem like I noted, no problem. 

Next I'd inquire if the Maestro was attached directly to the radio or via wifi. If something slows the wifi you can get a poor signal, then a crash. 

Wayne

Sorry I would not put my shack together where i had to run everything through torroids to use 1 particular brand of radio especially when other brands connected to the same cables and equipment worked fine ... just saying Example I was going all icom till I found out Icom just cannot provide steady power out to a linear at a set wattage but yaesu flex and elecraft do all the time so guess what the icoms are gone including the 7300 since they just cant get it right and are in denial of the issue. Soapbox off .... My 6400m has not had any issues since upgrading to 2.1.33 except 4 hours after the upgrade and I think that is because I hadnt shut it down after the upgrade and restarted it.

Ron WD5FUN

As Doug has stated this is not an external problem.  It occurs with me when the rig is in receive mode and no RF is present.  It is not a power supply problem, my PS is a 35 amp linear supply providing 13.8 volts. It is a software problem.  While I was very busy yesterday evening with running the net I was not able to document everything so I will do that when it happens again.  I love the radio but there operating situations where reliability is a must.  I will next time try operating the net under computer control, but that does not solve the problem.  I know Flex is trying hard to make right, but I just believe this should be a priority item. 

John - K3MA

Ron I am sorry for your problem while running the net. Why do you feel your issue should be a priority fix over others that have been reported for sometime?

Does anyone even know how Flex assigns priority to reported bugs?

Mike-VA3MW

Hi All

We are converting this to a helpdesk ticket.

Thanks for all your input.

Rich McCabe

I think you will be fine Mark.   The M radios seem to have some connection issues between the front panel and the actual radio.  Both the 6600ms I had exhibited various connection messages related to front panel.  The 6600 (non M) I replaced it with has worked fantastic with the exception of some very small bugs which have been entered into their system.  

I am sure Flex will resolve the M problems soon.

mikeatthebeach .

Hope they fix it - not good 
73 Mike

Bill -VA3WTB

Of course they will fix it, that is why a helpdesk was opened.

W8QB

Hi John.  It is reassuring to see that Mike Walker has converted this to a helpdesk ticket.  There is ample reason to move this issue to the top of the queue, because when radios unexpectedly "crash", as with my and Ron's radios, we are not talking about a minor bug.  The shutdowns I experienced occurred shortly after booting the radio while the radio was still in receive mode, so RF is not the culprit.  I suspect this bug is currently receiving the priority attention it deserves, but the urgency is worth noting.

Bill -VA3WTB

This is a comment from  Steve - N5AC, VP Engineering

We have a standing weekly meeting to review all the issues in the internal problem tracking system and "dispose" of them -- this means that we either schedule it to be fixed, we report why it's really not an issue (perhaps someone didn't read the documentation or the issue has already been fixed and the customer is on old software), or we put it in the "backlog."  The backlog is a place where issues go that are real, but not something we are going to address right away.  Why wouldn't we fix something right away?  Well imagine that there is a complete spectrum of issues with "I don't like that color of green in that button" to "radio crashes when you tune."  We always schedule and fix the latter ones and often don't have time to do the prior ones right away.  

Rich McCabe

Bill you really should quit being so **** Flex.:)

Doug

I love it Rich !

Michael Coslo

Hi Wayne, RF issues are not a Flex specific problem, but tend to happen when the computers get involved. What is more, they might happen on one frequency and not another, like the one time RF got into a WiFi router and shut it down because of an oscillator in the router. But only on one frequency on 40 meters. 

I do a lot of networked systems, probably put together 20 by now, and the only Flex system so far is mine. But it is just a lot better to prepare so that you don't have problems. On the Flex signature Radios you have the added issues of routers being involved. As a server system it is inherent you'll be going through either a router or direct to a computer. 

I don't know what to tell you if you can't be bothered to implement RF ingress control in an inherently computerized system. My last router was a Netgear, and it had that issue on 40 meters. So I wrapped the ethernet cord. That was the last time I didn't wrap everything from the start.

Regardless, the problem is apparently not an RF issue, so never mind.

Wayne

My 6400M running 2.1.33 has been on since noon today and just shut it down at 8:33pm flawless operation no issues at all rock solid since a restart after the 2.1.33 upgrade several days ago ... kudos to flex an amazing rig!

John - K3MA

@Bill TU that is useful information I did not know.

@Doug I understand and I hope you understand there are other crash type issues that have been reported before.  Take the DAX corruption issue on transmit.  You go to make a digital contact and your transmit signal is all distorted.  Or take the random shutdown issue.  Your sitting there listening and all of a sudden the radio gets disconnected.  These two have been around for sometime.  I certainly understand and hope that it does get fixed quickly along with some of the others.  It certainly seems that Flex has a process for dealing with issues and we can only trust that they have the required resources to implement fixes in a resonable time frame.

Tim - W4TME

Sorry for my late reply.  I am working directly with Ron to better characterize the issue he is having using our HelpDesk.  It is possible that the issue Ron is having may be hardware related. 

I also wanted to address some of the other reports of periodic software crashes.  Not all crashes are due to the same root cause. Our HelpDesk staff is trained to do methodical troubleshooting steps to triage the issue and focus on what the probable root cause may be.  As in the case of Ron, his issue is presenting like a possible hardware issue.

This doesn't mean we haven't been addressing other crashing issues in parallel that have a possible software root cause. We have been working on this issue very diligently with our alpha team while preparing SmartSDR v2.2.  The reports from the team on improved operational stability are very promising and we have folks that operate the radio for protracted periods of time where uptime is critical (radio sport). 

We are almost at the "release candidate" quality stage of the v2.2 release.  This means that GA (general availability) should not be too far down the road.  I am not making any promises as to when, as we still don't know what we don't know, but it is getting closer to being a public release.

KB4OIF

Ticket # 6143 as well Tim.  

Wayne

I managed to crash my 6400M today ... Software .... No fault of the radio ... Its that **** loose nut behind the keyboard again moved on to API exploration and had a software crash after 2,000 tcpip connection/disconnection attempts .... my bad but realized what happened ... my 6400M has been rock solid since the 2.1.33 upgrade and reboot. Ran it for over 8 hours Saturday over 10 hours on Sunday all with no issue.

Gigabit switches is the way to go ... my connection with my network always green and rock solid no matter if I'm running Smartsdr for windows or standalone or beating it up with the API from another laptop on the net with UDP and TCP/IP.

Truly fantastic and amazinz rig !!!!

W8QB

I am glad that you've had good success with 2.1.33.  I have rock solid (Fios) Internet service and an excellent router; although as noted, I have had recurring software issues.  I am hopeful that version 2.2 will be the solution.