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Etiquette

Walt - KZ1FWalt - KZ1F Member
edited June 23 in New Ideas
I think, perhaps more so with the group of people that joined this community 3 to 4 years ago there was a, maybe unspoken, etiquette, of one's name including their call sign to, perhaps in only a crude way, indicate they were actually radio amateurs as opposed to trolls or malcontents, or unlicensed purchasers of Flex radios (are we designated OO's?).

It feels of late, there has been a rash of new arrivals that either have 'handles' ala CB or just a first name. I don't know if it makes sense to declare Elmers as identity police but I just wanted to reflect on the change in trend on here of late. If others concur perhaps it's worthy of a friendly conversation.
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Comments

  • KF4HRKF4HR Member ✭✭
    edited February 2017
    I see no need to stir the **** with friendly CB conversations.  Today's new arrivals may very well end up being tomorrow's Elmer's.        
  • KC9NRNKC9NRN Member
    edited April 3
    In my experience being licensed or not doesn't change the way people speak to each other. I could add my call sign but honestly, the way things are today I am less inclined to give something out that gives my address so any loon can show up at my door step. I give it on the air and on QRZ and Ham only forums but open forums, nope, not worth the added risk to my family. 

    Ham only forums it's equal because everybody displays their call sign so it works out.

    LIDS show up where ever people congregate be it forums or what have you. If you purchased a Flex radio without a license which is legal to do I think? Then you should be able to post here and hopefully not act like a troll.

  • KC9NRNKC9NRN Member
    edited October 2016
    I forgot about the SWL side of it, good point.
  • Walt - KZ1FWalt - KZ1F Member
    edited April 2019
    Sorry, this has actually been a recurring conversation on here. I think in the past it as actually be broached by Elmers. The only difference is this time I brought it up as the way it's been broached in the past was highly (personal opinion) inflammatory and combative. So, yes, malcontents are self identifying, eyes of the beholder aside, But one has to ask, especially in this facebook era where nothing you type or post isn't digested, processed, marketed, why someone feels the need for anonymity, especially given the vast majority of the OTer on here do self identify. So, the question remains is why the cloaked identity?

    I almost said nothing. It did stand out though so I thought I would. Hey, whatever dude. I would say though, from experience on here, if you want to be taken seriously, you may want to rethink the anonymity thing. Or not.
  • Robert -- N5IKDRobert -- N5IKD Member ✭✭
    edited November 2016
    If someone registers with Google or Facebook, does the GetSatisfaction interface allow the opportunity to provide a callsign or unique username?
  • Bill -VA3WTBBill -VA3WTB Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 23
    I don't know Walt, sort of difficult to ask all to identify. For me as you know by now and sometimes gets your fur up, is I try and correct very poor and misleading information meant to throw mud on Flex. But I still understand in some cases misleading info is not intentional. That's all I can do.
  • Walt - KZ1FWalt - KZ1F Member
    edited November 2016
    That's an interesting point. I routinely have to log in via Google, as I wouldn't be caught dead with a Facebook account, yet it always shows my proper identification on here. My Google accts know nothing about kz1f. In SAML terminology it is called account linking. And, coincidentally, what I will likely use in some software I am writing.
  • Walt - KZ1FWalt - KZ1F Member
    edited November 2016
    But, help me out here Bill, has this very subject not come up on here about every eight months or so? At one level I don't care but when in the past, it's come up, it's been contentious.

    In fact, didn't one occurrence result in you adding your call as a suffix?
  • Ken - NM9PKen - NM9P Member ✭✭
    edited December 2016
    It was discussed a while back, Walt, and ultimately rejected because of security/privacy concerns.  Also the reasoning ultimately went the way of the "if we require CW skills it will keep out the riff-raff."  Which argument has been debunked in my mind.  Code-free Amateur tickets brought in the likes of Gerald et.al. who gave us Flex-radio and other advances.  (not to open another can or worms, but I have met more idiots and snobs who passed the 20 WPM than I have who did not...and I passed it the hard way myself, so this is not sour grapes)

    Ultimately the consensus, though not unanimous, was that people's behavior and contribution was much more indicative than their online handles. 

    An even greater help to keeping the forum etiquette is for all of the frequent contributors to set a good example of decorum and tolerance, even when we disagree.  Positive peer pressure can be a powerful thing.  besides, a troll looking for a fight and not receiving one quickly gets bored...usually.  if not, the can get banned if necessary.
  • km9r.mikekm9r.mike Member
    edited July 2016
    I will work on my ability to not reply "in kind". I do not tolerate unwarranted / baseless drive by attacks from trolls too well and will simply conclude that no matter what some people will never be happy or they have a dishonest agenda. I do admire your restraint Ken and from others as well. It has not gone unnoticed on me.
  • Walt - KZ1FWalt - KZ1F Member
    edited November 2016
    I am assuming you are referring to me Mike? I attacked no one, and neither did Ken who, where did codeless come from. So, OK, well I am going to change my handle on here to...."studmuffin".

    Paul, try reading what I said. This is not "My Idea" this has, several times been the cause for rancor, attacks, and general contention on here. So, hey, if nobody objects, who am I to. So poohy on etiquette. Hmmm, kind of like it's a good idea right up until Walt made reference to it. Maybe "Studley Doright". And, for you newbies, that's all this was, reference to the cause of contention that has surfaced sever times since I've been on here. So now you know to expect it. For warned is for armed.
  • Jay NationJay Nation Member
    edited August 2016
    Trolls == Anonymous

    However

    Anonymous != Troll

    A call sign isn't a good indicator of good behavior.

    Many of us wouldn't mind having the freedom to decide just who gets to have freedom.

    Freedom is better earned, than voted on.

    Hate the trolls by ignoring them!image

    73, Jay - NO5J
  • N9VCN9VC Member ✭✭
    edited December 2016
    Hi Walt,

    I agree with you, but not sure what is the best approach to the matter.
    I see it happen on a variety of web pages, the insensitive and outright
    attacks that can take place. I wonder if people would be that bold if
    they had to deal with someone face to face, rather than a keyboard.
    The feeling that someone is half way across the country or more gives
    some the feeling they can say whatever they like and not have to worry
    about facing the person they are attacking.
    It seems to have gotten worse on this board as of late and it is a shame
    because the intent of this board has gone sour at times. I would hate to
    see this board go away, but would not blame the Flex leadership if they
    did. Constructive criticism is okay, but the armchair quarterbacks, who
    know best how to run Flex Radio and the 'me too's' should temper their
    thoughts at times.
    The biggest problem today is lack of regard for other people and their
    feelings. Not just on this board, but in everyday life. If I am afraid
    to post my name and call here with my thoughts and comments, then maybe
    I should not post.

    73, Jim N9VC

    I wonder if the the big 3 sponsor a community page where hams can make
    disparaging comments about the way their companies run their business.

  • Ken - NM9PKen - NM9P Member ✭✭
    edited December 2016
    No offense or reference intended to you or anyone, Walt, with the code-free remark. 
    I was simply drawing a parallel between various arguments I have heard in the "how can we clean up the bands and/or computer forums" discussions.   I have observed that there is no single qualifier that makes or prevents one from acting badly on the air or on the keyboard. 

    And no offense taken in the broaching of the etiquette question. 

    One of my favorite lines from the movie "1776" is when the Congress is voting on whether to discuss the subject of independence.  The old codger rep from Rhode Island, as he returns from the privy, says: "In all my born days I have never heard of a topic so dangerous that it couldn't be TALKED about.  I'm in favor of debating anything!"  (quote slightly mangled by my memory)

    I am always in favor of a good debate, even an energetic one, as long as it doesn't get personal.  One problem with online debates, though, is that it is often easy for two people to misunderstand one another's meaning and/or intention because we lack the ability to discern non-verbal cues like facial expression, tone of voice, tempo, etc. that can often carry much of the meaning.  (and can often be assumed incorrectly by the recipient) Which is why I am often extra cautious and slow to type when I find disagreement.  It is also why often I have spent time typing and editing a comment only to find that three others have commented before I hit "send!"

    Have a great day!

    Ken - NM9P 
  • km9r.mikekm9r.mike Member
    edited July 2016
    No not at all Walt. Sorry for not being more specific. I was referring to those mentioned in your OP. My bad.
  • Walt - KZ1FWalt - KZ1F Member
    edited November 2016
    NP, Mike. While I never go out of my way to offend anybody...well? I am careful to make amends if I have, for the most part
  • Walt - KZ1FWalt - KZ1F Member
    edited November 2016
    Ken, as far as RI, hey dude, I resemble that remark, RI born and bred. Remember, we were kicked out of Massachusetts, likely for being unruly, truth be told. BTW, they had a stick up where the sun don't shine.
  • EA4GLIEA4GLI Salvador Member ✭✭
    edited November 2016
    I get attacked in this forum only by anonymous posters.
  • EA4GLIEA4GLI Salvador Member ✭✭
    edited November 2016
    I get attacked in this forum only by anonymous posters.
  • Carl K5HKCarl K5HK Member
    edited July 2016
    Yes, Hams should have their callsigns in their sign on.  How we gonna know who you are without it?
  • KC9NRNKC9NRN Member
    edited October 2016
    If this were an Amateur Radio only forum that required a call to sign up like QRZ I would gladly give that info because EVERYBODY would have to.

    In this community it isn't a requirement so if some person decides to get their **** in a bunch they can look up your address and while that may not bother you, it could bother the wife or children if they answer the door in your absence and if said bunched up **** guy decides to do something, he can.

    I prefer not to give out anymore information than I have to in a world where people will riot over a rumor and **** people over nothing. The less info people have about me, the better. 

    Posting an opinion on a forum is neither enhanced or made negative because I post my call sign. If knowing my call sign is the only way somebody will take me seriously, then the problem isn't with me, they can move on and ignore me.


  • EA4GLIEA4GLI Salvador Member ✭✭
    edited November 2016
    I can't edit or remove the double post. I would like to change the "only" by a "mostly".
    I find forum users behave more politely with others if they are not hiding behind a nickname. 

    If fear of your personal information being on the web for all to see, maybe only Flexradio could have access to your real name and callsign even if you decide to post with an alias.
  • EA4GLIEA4GLI Salvador Member ✭✭
    edited November 2016
    I see your point about security and it is very serious one. However, if you are concerned about security and you do not want to give up your info start by not putting your address online through qrz.com. And, maybe do not post here. Your opinion will be missed but I think anonymous posters are a minority.

    All of this is a moot point, however. FRS already voiced their opinion and anonymous posting will remain.
  • KY6LA_HowardKY6LA_Howard La Jolla, CA. Paris and Sablet FranceMember ✭✭✭
    edited May 31

    Walt

    I suggested this several months ago but it was rejected by Flex who wanted to keep a totally open  forum so we continue to suffer the whiners and trolls...

    https://community.flexradio.com/flexradio/topics/please-get-rid-of-anonymous-posting

    Yes...

    There has been a significant visible lessening of the posting decorum in the last few months..

    But there has also been a significant increase of new posters on this community which is good because it implies a significant increase in sales to pay for new software development.  (unless the trolls are signing up in droves)

    Since many of the new posters are late adopters of SDR technology that seem to have more of an "appliance" expectation rather than a "bleeding edge of technology" expectation - it would seem that they are not used to the way things happen in the SDR world. 

    A significant number also seem to be computer or technically challenged.  So they do not understand how difficult a "SIMPLE MATTER OF PROGRAMMING" maybe to get right without breaking something else.  Many of the serial whiners fall into this group.

    Many of the new posters seem to be economically challenged and expect that even a lowly 6300 as a major investment which should have performance exceeding a 6700

    So we get a lot of very acerbic postings when the "appliance" does not work like legacy appliances do without any consideration given to the fact that the 6000 series SDR's totally outperform every other legacy radio on the market in most areas and are rapidly closing the gap on the remaining areas. .   

    Bottom Line:  As much as many of the anonymous serial whiners are a PIA, I am quite happy to have them here... They do help sometimes (rarely) in identifying things that slip through the cracks and more important their investments in Flex help pay for future software development needed to keep Flex on top of the pile....

    Finally:  As you may recall I have given out the "Curmudgeon of the Year Award" every year at the Flex banquet at Dayton... Unfortunately with so many new anonymous serial whiners it is going to be really hard to identify the winner for 2016

  •   VE6KWA VE6KWA Ken Member ✭✭
    edited July 2016
    I'd  support required call signs (or some form of ID) on the forum.  I think the loss of privacy & anonymity concern is over stated.  Reality is .. we all joined a hobby that requires us to positively ID at specific intervals while on air. How is IDing on the forums more intrusive than that ??
  • Jon_KF2EJon_KF2E Member ✭✭
    edited May 2019
    I guess my perspective on this is why would a licensed ham not want other hams to know his call? It is after all a "community." It's really no different than ID'ing when you are on the air. This doesn't mean that we should exclude people who are not licensed, they could identify themselves as SWL or unlicensed. That way forum members would understand the context to answer their questions. 

    Jon...kf2e
  • KC9NRNKC9NRN Member
    edited October 2016
    Quote N9VC "If I am afraid to post my name and call here with my thoughts and comments, then maybe I should not post."

    Thankfully, people who think this way are not in charge of the forum. I'm not AFRAID of posting my call sign. I won't do it because crazy people are everywhere and that call sign directs them to my house where people I care about reside.

    I counter with if you don't care who knows where you live, great post that call everywhere, have a party but people who decide not to have every right to post, as much as you do.

  • Walt - KZ1FWalt - KZ1F Member
    edited November 2016
    I give the FCC Howard's address.i mean, he's hardly ever there anyway.
  • KC9NRNKC9NRN Member
    edited October 2016
    Ken,

    Testing to become an Amateur Radio Operator had nothing to do with how you interact on the Internet and it shouldn't. Flex sells SWL radios, should they also create another community forum so those non-licensed people can have their own place to post?

    I agree on giving my info to Flex, which I did call sign and all. On call sign only forums, you will see exactly what people are complaining about here. QRZ being a big example, it's a moderation nightmare and all folks involved use their call signs.

    It's like saying on the air people will behave because they have to give their call, LIDS are LIDS no matter where we are, online or on the air and if people honestly think call signs would fix how people talk online, sign up at QRZ or any host of other call sign only sites, you'll find out fast enough it's no different.
  • Jon_KF2EJon_KF2E Member ✭✭
    edited July 2016
    NordicPC, Do you actually talk on the radio? On HF? Do you ID? IF so you have broadcast your name and address around the world. Probably to the jihadists in the middle east as well ask nuts in this country. If you are worried about that maybe you need an new hobby.

    Hopefully you haven't been on 14.313:)

    Jon, not afraid to say it kf2e.

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