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Maestro CGNAT ZeroTier - it works!
After some slogging around with my networks, I now have the Maestro accessing my remote radio, which is behind Starlink CGNAT. Here’s the rundown of how I did it…
First off, create a ZeroTier network. Free! Then build and deploy a ZeroTier Bridge at the remote location. I run this on a Raspberry Pi. Danny K5CG and Roland HB9VQQ have great tutorials on setting up this portion - thanks guys! Note that I had trouble following ZeroTier’s tutorials- FWIW.
https://cloud.hamoperator.org/s/r8aPidbpzdocrwW
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yaIndMRmZDkrtQFa7ZSwfrtp_J3VW8qf/view
With this set up and functional, the ZeroTier client software can be loaded on PC’s, phones, tablets, etc. which gets these devices on the network local to the radio. Forwarding discovery packets, the radio shows up in the SmartSDR chooser menu, no SmartLink required. I have this running on Windows and MAC/IOS devices. Cool.
Ah, but what about the Maestro? Since there’s no loading the ZeroTier client, you’ve gotta take another step. Enter the GL.iNet GL-MT3000 Beryl AX Travel Router, which natively supports ZeroTier. It takes a little tweaking, but works great.
Now, I am a fledgling network ****, so take this all with a grain of salt. There are probably many ways to pull this off. This is how I did it.
First, I installed ZeroTier on the GL.iNet router. This is found under the Applications menu. Next, add/authorize this device to the ZeroTier network created previously. As with the Pi Bridge, tag the ‘Authorize Bridging’ and ‘Do not auto-assign IPs’ check boxes under the ZeroTier network’s Advanced Settings.
Now go into GL.iNet’s Advanced Settings - this is called ‘Luci’. Under Luci / Advanced Settings / Devices, select Configure ‘br-lan’. Here, link the ‘eth0’ Interface (lan) with the ‘zerotier’ Interface. Put a checkmark in the box for each of these Interfaces, and Apply. Note that the ZeroTier Interface name will be that of the specific ZeroTier network. Do not bridge the ‘wan’ Interface.
Now comes the fun part. You’ll need to have your device obtain an IP address on your remote network subnet. This can be done by manually configuring the IP address of the device. I went a different route. I disabled the GL.iNet DHCP server, which then has any device connected to ‘eth0’ - the LAN port (which is now bridged through ZeroTier) obtain its IP address from the DHCP server at the remote site. Best network practice has only one DHCP server on a network - multiples will get confused and fight one another.
So with all that, I now have a dedicated ethernet network connection to the remote site that passes/receives discovery packets to any device on the network. I can fire up the Maestro, select the radio, and operate the rig remotely. SSB. CW. Whatever. That said, my primary goal was to operate CW. This works fantastic. CW. Sidetone. Remote. Awesome!
What about latency? What about packet loss? Since nothing is perfect, here is my experience. Over the course of a million or so packets, dropped packets are less than 0.4%. Latency averages 80-100ms. All definitely workable. While I don’t know how to test it, I have a feeling that a big piece of the packet loss measurement is Starlink’s handing off the connection from satellite to satellite.
Yes, I know Starlink now offers a fixed IP plan, but that comes at an additional cost, and includes a data cap. So I want’t interested in changing plans.
Note that not all GL.iNet routers support ZeroTier - so if you go this route, shop carefully. I chose this model as I only wanted/needed one ethernet port to bridge. And it was cheap. Like $85 cheap.
So this should work for anyone that wants to remote into a radio that is behind a CGNAT network. Whether it be Starlink, a local WISP, Double NAT, or whatever - ZeroTier pulls the end-around, allowing you to hit your remote rig like you’re on-site.
As always, YMMV, but this is working in the Whiskey Bravo shack. Any questions? Fire away, and I’ll do my best.
73
Mike - ADØWB
Maestro.jpeg
MT3000 Devices
Bridge
Comments
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Great job Mike. I hope others benefit from the collective knowledge.
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hey Mike very interesting. I tried to get lan bridging working with zeroteir and I had no luck so I’m now trying using tail scale and by the smart link system using an azure virtual machine as an exit mode is doing my head in big time I think I’m gonna go back to trying using zeroteir with two raspberry pies one at the radio side and one at the right at the maestro side if you feel like taking a video of your in action be very keen to see how it works and why did you use that router at the maestro end instead of just using a raspberry pie on both ends wondering what the thought was there?
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I realized that the link to my Nextcloud document has changed and is also not available globally (FW rules) so I shared it here https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mCaTD6-0qNfRf0PBOB84BeXPFRtOawLq/view?usp=drive_link
I also updated it and added some shell commands to display the OS version, zerotier-one version, interfaces file, etc., to aid in troubleshooting.
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Mike, I can't get access to your document.
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I'm not a big user of google drive so unfamiliar. I changd the share to view only for anybody with the link. It should work now.
I created an image of the MicroSD card and have that if anybody wants it. The zerotier-one version was 1.12.2 at that time.
I updated the OS to the latest versions and zerotier-one is now 1.14.2 and still appears to work.
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Great document Mike, will give it a try today! MUCH appreciated
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Hi Dan, I would be interested in the SDCard Image if you wouldn't mind sharing some how?
Thanks in advance
Bret
wx7y@arrl.net
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Bret, I sent you a link.
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The latest version (small corrections and the update date) is here
The Pi img file (zipped) of a working solution is here
The image was from the OS as it was in 2023. I have since updated the OS and all appears to still be well.
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Wow, Danny - Great updates! Thank you.
Neat to see people going after this solution. I've had it up and running for several months and it has been bulletproof.
Ian - as for using the GL.iNet mini router - I actually did put together a pi for the Maestro end, but poor linux skills prevented me from getting a functional solution. Even trying multiple eth interfaces. The ready made mini router was the fit for my needs. Both wired and wireless connections to the mini router are linked directly to the remote network - devices operate as if they are physically on-site..
I had tried several different plans, each leading to failure in one way or another. This is pretty easy, and just 'works'.
Good luck, all. :-)
73,
Mike - ADØWB0 -
great comments Mike..being a Pi and Linux fan I feel compelled to do it that way but I think maybe it might be to my demise! 😩😭
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ok, question on this.. I have done a fair bit of playing with zerotier on Linux but not with a bridging setup. If I want to connect to the pi itself, remotely..say SSH from my laptop, joined to the same zerotier network..can I do that.? What IP would I connect to.?
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Absolutely! When setting up the bridge pi, you will set the static IP address. Once the bridge is connected and authorized to your ZeroTier network, any device on the ZT network can SSH directly into the pi at the address you configured.1
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Thank you for posting and the detailed description, this was a huge help! I installed the GL.iNet GL-MT3000 at the remote Flex-8400 site which has a cellular hotspot with CGNAT instead of deploying and configuring a pi. I prefer going with appliances. It works great on SmartSDR for Windows & MacOS. Having problems with intermittent waterfall issues on iPhone & iPad. Will try setting up a second GL.iNet GL-MT3000 Beryl AX Travel Router @ local site for the iOS devices to connect without the ZeroTier client to see if that clears it up. The biggest hurdle for me was learning how ZeroTier works - which isn't complicated. I also used Chrome Remote Desktop at the remote site to solve configuration problems.0
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It works and can be installed on routers running OpenWrt like GL.iNet and others.
Info here: [OpenWrt Wiki] Zerotier
73's de Stefan / AF6SA www.af6sa.com
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Have you tried this setup with cellular carriers? I want to use my T-Mobile Home Internet for the radio end and a T-Mobile small data modem on the Maestro end.0
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I have not specifically tried with a cellular provider. Although I have seen reference where folks have had issues with their carrier not passing UDP data - which is required for proper waterfall display. So I guess it depends on your cellular provider. It's a pretty inexpensive setup to experiment with. And if you source your hardware from the right place, they may have a generous return policy… :-) I'd say it's worth trying.
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I have used this over Cellular via my Android phone's "hotspot" on AT&T. Maybe not the same thing you are asking about.
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Mike's detailed description of this setup is very helpful and is close to what I need for a remote setup I am planning. Two questions: (1) How do I do this on a Windows 11 machine instead of a Raspberry Pi? and (2) Can this be done using AT&T cellular and a Netgear hotspot? Thanks for the help!
Ed K5YZW
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The key to making Layer 2 transparent is having a bridge between the two interfaces (Zerotier and your LAN). I tried to make a bridge work on Windows but was not successful. RPi or another Linux host (Ubuntu?) is the way to go.
An alternative solution I have been recommending is a Layer 3 VPN (Tailscale/Wireguard) and the SmartUnlink app for Windows to proxy the radio broadcasts. It's much simpler than setting up the bridge.
Either would work with AT&T and any hotspot (manufacturer agnostic).0 -
Thanks for the information, Danny. Are you saying that I could run Tailscale/Wireguard and the SmartUnlink app and that is all that is needed other than a hotspot? Thank you.
Ed K5YZW
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Yea that will work but what about if you have a Maestro and you can't install Tailscale on it, you need to have someway to connect it to the Layer2 Network, which is very easy if you have a portable router with Zerotier already to go with Wired or Wireless connections and the server back at the station.
I use Tailscale to manage a very larger HAM repeater network and seems like every six months it fails and I have to hit the sites to re-establish TailScale for one reason or another.
My ZeroTier has ran over 13 months so far with out even having to reboot anything including the Pi server, My SoftEther VPN server has ran for YEARS and YEARS without a reboot on a Intel NUC that runs all the time as a PLEX server, and is there for a backup but with ZeroTier running I haven't needed it so far.
There are a few options for sure and you the user needs to decide what is going to work the best for your situation.
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@WX7Y You could have a Pi at each end running Tailscale and routing (Layer 3) between a Maestro LAN and a Flex LAN. Layer 2 is the simplest from an arhitecture perspective, but I've found after trying to help many hams that it's difficult to get it working right out of the box the first time, even following the various setup documents (including the ones I've published).
But as you've eluded to, there are many solutions.
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@Ed K5YZW Yes, but you have to be careful not to duplicate the same subnet at both ends or the routing table will not be able to distinguish which network SmartUnlink is trying to connect through.
For example:
192.168.1.0/24 at home for the Flex
172.10.10.0/16 for Tailscale/Wireguard
192.168.2.0/24 at the remote end.SmartUnlink on the 192.168.2.x network needs to be able to be able to route to a different network.
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@K5CG very interesting comments re TailScale and ZeroTeir - noted.! I would be annoyed if I had to drive to site beecause I kind of see them as a reason to NOT have to drive to site. @All - just watching this thread .
@All - As a network engineer myself I love complex networking, but it always comes back to bite me. I tried to 'span the wan' with ZT and TS plus other 'bridging' ideas but it just got messy - for me. So I went back to the idea of trying to do it as intended when remote from the LAN that the Flex is on - which is to use Smartlink. Below is a link to a picture of our setup. It works well, super well in fact. No ZeroTier/ No TailScale, just normal IP routing with Nat as usual where required.
I was thinking - if anyone is interested to set their up like we have our - I am happy to do that - remotely of course :-) Long URL - but it is just to an image file.
73 - IAN - VK1HF
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