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Pretty awesome AI driven noise cancelling Software - RM Noise
Comments
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Been testing RM Noise for a couple of months now it works well . The only downside is needing an internet connection to connect to the remote server to process the audio. The more users there are, will introduce latency. You can see the difference watching your spectrum display as another station is speaking. It's OK for casual use. But, in a pile up, the delay will cause you to miss the contact.
James
WD5GWY
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I worked ZD9W on SSB in a huge pile-up without any issues
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I didn't say it couldn't be done. Just that there is latency added using an off site server to process audio. And it effects timing. Also, the more users there are using the server, the greater the latency will become. I like the software very much. But, I would prefer not having to depend on an off site server to process the audio. If the developer would consider making his application a standalone application that needs no internet connection at all, then I think he could easily sell it to many users.
But, from the correspondence I have received from him, he has no plans to make his application standalone, independent of the internet. Therefore, I continue to test other methods to improve noise reduction for my 6600M. I have tested several VST plug-ins that work fairly well. Some require an internet connection to process the audio and others do not. It is an interesting exercise trying to find something that will improve audio without it introducing artifacts to the audio. Or being ineffective with weak signals.
Actually, my true hope is that Flex Radio will take the initiative to fix the DSP functions in SmartSDR and make it what it is truly capable of. ( one can dream!)
James
WD5GWY
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Latency is not an issue even for me in the EU it is below 500ms (server in the US) most of the time, with no negative impact on making DX QSOs. It is a matter of time (the project is still rather young) until more servers pop up around the globe and the algorithm will get even better over time.
SaaS like RM noise can be easily made resilient. If one node fails another one takes over. Bandwidth usage is very moderate at 300 kb/s. If in a worst-case scenario, all Servers are down you can still use your Radio.
This concept is game-changing, free to use, and literally works for every Radio with an Audio out.
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Free to use for now. While all you have stated is true to a great extent, latency will increase as more users start using the system. At some point this application will no longer be free. Server access isn't free. So, someone has to pay the bills. It will have to be the end user. ( unless the developer is extremely rich and this is a tax write off 😀 )
I think many people are enamored of the thought of AI for all kinds of things. The more you depend on something, the more you will be effected if it fails for some reason. I consider RM Noise a good example of what can be done for noise reduction. But, it's dependence on an off site server to process the audio doesn't make it a reliable method for audio processing. Make it a standalone application and I will be in line to purchase it. Especially if it's at a reasonable price. But, what really needs to happen is Flex Radio steps up their game and fix the DSP functions in SmartSDR. I,personally, would rather have that than having to use 3rd party applications that need an internet connection or add on hardware like the Timewave 599zx DSP outboard filter that I used for the excellent automatic Notch Filter and it's noise reduction that doesn't effect the audio. But, again, that is, in my opinion, just another band-aid for the problem instead of a cure. YMMV
James
WD5GWY
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We are installing a new RM Noise Server in Switzerland at my QTH. It will be the first Server outside the US specifically for users in or close to the EU to scale/load share and reduce latency. It is running on a watercooled Intel i9-14900K and an Nvidia RTX 4090 GPU doing the heavy lifting. It will be put in service ASAP.
Roland
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Nice setup. The RM Noise website has been showing a European server for a while now as being in service on the Network Status page. Maybe you can answer a question I have had for a while. Is RM Noise going to become a paid service of some kind in the future? I cannot imagine it remaining a free application that needs internet access for audio processing. Every time I have asked the developer of RM Noise about this he doesn't respond. He does answer questions about software and setup. If you are part of the system I would hope you could share more information on what the end objective for RM Noise actually is. I find it to be a very good audio processing tool. But, it is unknown how long it will remain available or if it will ever become a tool that can be used offline and still preform well.
James
WD5GWY
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Look closely
That's not an RM Noise server.... I am not in a position to comment on future developments
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Thanks for the clarification. I have been doing some reading about Internet exchange points. Interesting technology. I understand about not being able to discuss my questions. Hopefully, one day the developer of RM Noise will offer some details on where he wants to go with his application. As it is, it works well. But, I can see a point where network latency could cause a problem with near real-time audio processing which is essential for Amateur Radio communications. That is why I have asked/suggested to him to make his application a standalone application that doesn't require an internet connection to process the audio. His response was that he had no plans to do that for now. Because of that, I only use RM Noise occasionally and do not depend on it.
James
WD5GWY
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I have not read completely thru the documents so maybe this question can be answered quickly. Since this is posted on a Flex Community how does the software interface to the Flex radio? Is the hardware audio requirement from the Flex radio to the PC required or can some DAX usage be part of the setup and configuration? Following this can it be used when operating remotely using SmartLink?
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It is very easy for Flexradio users
- Download and install the RM Noise client software
- Enable DAX
- Configure RM Noise
I don't use SmartLink (I use ZeroTier), but I see no reason why it shouldn't work.
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It should work over SmartLink. But, you may notice an increase in Latency because of the additional time needed to send the audio to the remote server for processing.
James
WD5GWY
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There is no added latency whether you use SmartSDR with a local Flexradio or over Smartlink. The Data is always sent from the machine where SmartSDR is running not from the Radio. The latency can be read from the user interface of the RM Noise client software. I am in EU accessing the RM Noise server in Texas and I have no issues with latency, currently 400ms. I bet you guys in the US have a much lower value.
As soon as my RM Noise Server is operational, I will get much lower latency numbers. Everybody else in my region will also benefit from that.
Latency is no problem if you don't exceed ~600ms.
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Currently you are correct. Latency isn't a big deal especially for rag chewing. For contesting, it is important. As the number of users increase latency will increase. I get somewhere between 200ms and 250ms delay currently.
Honestly, I prefer local processing for audio as well as other functions with a radio. I look at applications like RM Noise as something useful if there isn't a better solution available to improve receive audio. If you are interested in hearing what is possible with local audio processing in an SDR application, find someone who has a radio like the Anan radios that use Thetis to operate the radio. Noise Reduction 2 in Thetis is better than RM Noise as it is fully integrated into the controlling software. Latency is so low, it is unnoticeable. With RM Noise, you can see visually on the spectrum display the latency between what is being said and when the processed audio is played back in your computer audio system. Also, unlike RM Noise, local audio processing doesn't have fixed filtering and the audio can be processed no matter the width of the receiver filter width.
There's a lot to like about RM Noise. But, it will never be as versatile as locally processed audio. I really wish the developer of RM Noise would create a complete, local only, version of his program. AI processing doesn't have to be server based. It can be individualized in such a way that it can operate just fine on a local machine.
It's a good concept. It would be much nicer if it was a standalone application.
James
WD5GWY
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You keep repeating yourself over and over again. If you prefer local processing then RM Noise is not for you. If you like Thetis, use Thetis. RM Noise works with every Radio regardless of brand.
In the meantime, the EU server is in testing with a few pilot users. Latency has been reduced significantly. The RTX 4090 GPU has lots of computing power to accommodate many users without degrading performance.
Very soon a public Beta of the client software will be released that supports a globally distributed multi-server architecture. Stay tuned and check https://ournetplace.com/rm-noise/ frequently.
The development does not stop here, more to come. The AI Model is continuously trained with new samples to further improve the result.
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I appreciate your comments. And I apologize for repeating myself. I was simply expressing my thoughts about how this software integrates with an Amateur radio setup, be it a Flex or any radio that can be connected to the internet. I have commented positively about RM Noise as far as its ability to remove background noise. I have simply pointed out the possible issues that may arise if one relies only on a network connection for audio processing. The example I gave about using Thetis was simply that, an example of what can be done without having to depend on an off site server for audio processing.
I will continue to test RM Noise and follow its evolution. Maybe someday the author of the software will actually consider creating a standalone application.
Have a great day and thanks for the interesting exchange.
James
WD5GWY
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I downloaded and started to use the software with my Flex 6600. On a noisy 40m band, it really makes it a pleasure to listen. So far, un-noticeable latency.
73 de Tom, N9GUN
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Thanks for the positive feedback.
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Here is an example of a legit SSB signal at the edge of a strong OTHR interference
The RM Noise AI model has been trained with OTHR samples to mitigate interferences
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Tested the new version for a while today during the 10 meter contest. Works pretty good. Latency was right at 200ms on average. Not bad overall. I did notice the volume control has been changed. Previously, if it's set all the way to the left, ( volume all the way down) it doesn't turn volume all the way down. Now, with the slider in the middle of the control, volume is so low it cannot be heard. Further to the left does nothing. Increasing the volume to the right does increase the volume. But, not all the way up. If I try to compensate by Increasing the level in DAX ( my audio source for SmartSDR) the graph complains about the drive level being too high.
James
WD5GWY
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I Notice the Volume settings as well so there has been some default levels change I think.
Now I have to increase the volume on the computer higher then I normally have it.
BUT just a comment, It's still works great and I think better overall.
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RM Noise has a brand new user Forum at https://forum.rmnoise.radio
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Currently, we are looking for a new server hosting site in Asia or Australia. We have had 100 new user registrations in the past 3 days approaching 2000 registered RM Noise users.
73
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RMNoise is expanding. A new Server is in Singapore to serve Asia and Oceania. With this addition, there are now four Servers in production.
73
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