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Remote HF AC and DC wiring

Mike-VA3MW
Mike-VA3MW Administrator, FlexRadio Employee, Community Manager, Super Elmer, Moderator admin

I have been at this remote stuff since 2005 and have had my remote shut down due to just about every possible failure (surprisingly, the Windows PC has been very solid without a single failure).

I've lost power, internet, UPS's failing, animals eating cables, etc. If it can go wrong, it will.

I wanted to share how I have my AC and DC wiring laid out.

This is not a complete diagram, but an overview of those items that I can remotely turn off.

I post this as an idea for you to consider if you are thinking of making a remote HF station that you need to be able to manage while being away for extended periods of time.

There are many ways to achieve the same goal, so I urge others to share.

The hard part is the 240VAC remote switch, especially in North America. I built my own 12V driven switch using a 240VAC 15A DPST relay.

These relays are easy enough to find, but may not be legal to use depending on your electrical code, so do your homework. It would not be good if you home brewed something and had it fail and this might result in insurance cancellation.

This gives you an idea of what I have and what works for me. This is not the only way to manage your power at a remote station and you may have a different solution. I will do more pages as I get time to create them (LAN, RF, etc).

Mike va3mw



Comments

  • KD0RC
    KD0RC Member, Super Elmer Moderator

    Wow, nicely done Mike. I use one of those cheap 4 channel WiFi web switches to select among 3 antennas and use the fourth channel to remotely power the Flex 6400 on and off. Since I only occasionally operate remotely, it meets my needs. If I start operating away from home more frequently or for longer periods, I will definitely consider a setup like yours.

    Do you use the Raspberry Pi to control the bottom device (network modem/router?) instead of the Web Switch because it is the device looking at lightning maps? If so, why not have all the other relays operate off the R Pi?

    73,

    Len, KD0RC

  • Thanks for posting Mike. What accessory supplies are you using, and what's your Network Switch and Firewall? Is your switch managed or unmanaged, and why did you decide to go that route?

    73, Lou W0FK

  • Mike-VA3MW
    Mike-VA3MW Administrator, FlexRadio Employee, Community Manager, Super Elmer, Moderator admin

    Personally, I have a pfSense firewall and an unmanaged TP-Link 1G switch. I chose pfSense as I like to have good reporting numbers on bandwidth and to be able to attempt to tune my own bandwidth and attack buffer bloat. For me, the pfSense router was about learning.

    However, out of the box, the IQRouter by Evanroute is very good and just works.

    As for Switches and Networks, it is nothing special as 99% of the stuff is awesome. Don't make your own LAN cables on anything you are moving LOTS of data through. Buy good quality CAT 5 or 6.

    Mike va3mw

  • Mike-VA3MW
    Mike-VA3MW Administrator, FlexRadio Employee, Community Manager, Super Elmer, Moderator admin
    edited October 2020

    Len,

    The PI does a few things. One is to power cycle internet related things like the Modem if there is no internet. I had to roll my own, but today, you can buy off the shelf devices from Amazon. I have not tested any of the commercial ones at all.

    The other PI runs NodeRed for my user Dashboard.

    Mike



  • Alan
    Alan Member ✭✭✭✭

    Mike

    Good topic to discuss and share ideas. Your system looks very good.

    Since the end objective is to enhance remote reliability of the power source, I took a slightly different approach. I do not switch the power supply on some of my devices and I have a UPS based 13.8VDC bus.

    My 13.8 VDC is used for all devices, except for the PG-XL. The 13.8VDC is derived from a 110VAC / 13.8 VDC power supply and a 13.8 VDC battery combined using a Paradan "DC Gate" to a central UPS 13.8VDC bus. I do not switch the 120VAC to the power supply, the power supply 120VAC is alway on. The Paradan keeps the battery charged. This approach also eliminates several "power rats".

    I added a "low voltage disconnect" to the bus from the Power Gate, to ensure the downstream equipment is not damaged if I loose the 120VAC and the battery is drained to 11.5VDC. The disconnect will re-close when the 120VAC is restored and the power supply or battery voltage is greater then 12.0 VDC.

    Primarily for safety reasons, I added a manual overload/disconnect switch on the battery output to the Paradan DC Gate.

    I do not have a switch on the Flex Server 13.8 VDC input. The Flex Server is always powered up.

    I use a 12VDC to 24VDC voltage converter to power the SteppIR SDA100. I do not have a switch on the Stepp iR power in. SteppIR recommends the SDA100 power always be on because of the small "hold" voltage to the steppers. 24VDC is on the lower limit of the Stepp IR voltage specification.

    I power my Raspberry Pis, all LAN components, and the router, from the 13.8 VDC UPS bus. I use 12 VDC to 5 VDC voltage converters.

    I monitor the 13.8VDC bus using my Raspberry Pi. If the voltage drops below 12.5 VDC, Node-Red will shutdown the Flex Server using the Flex remote on/off option and "home" the SteppIR antenna.

    All components are fused. I use a powerpole fused power **** for the devices drawing more than five amps.

    For devices drawing less than five amps, I use a Electronics-Salon Power Distribution Fuse Board.

    Alan WA9WUD

  • Steve KD2OM
    Steve KD2OM Member ✭✭

    Mike,

    I wonder how your radio handles the power supply output voltage dropping down slowly if the power supply is switched off from the web switch? Flex mentions some place not to allow the DC to rise or decay slowly like it does when AC is removed from a supply.

    I was concerned about that so I take a similar but less sophisticated method than Alan uses. I use an Astron battery backup module, I don't think the Paradan was available when I got it.

    I just recently added a manual big red switch so I wouldn't have to keep dragging the radio out of the shelf to disconnect the power poles when the radio needs the complete removal from power.

    73

    Steve KD2OM

  • KD0RC
    KD0RC Member, Super Elmer Moderator

    Hi Steve, I could not find any reference to removing power from the rig. Was this cited for the 6000 series or was it possibly for an earlier model? I am curious because I normally power off my 6400, wait until it looks like no more activity, then I shut off my 70 amp Astron linear supply. The voltage ramps down until I get 3 red flashes and then total power down. I believe the flashes are the beginning of the low voltage status indication before the voltage drops enough to stop the internal MCU (or FPGA or whatever) and therefore the rest of the low voltage flashes. I have not had any problems to this point using this procedure, but would like to know for sure.

    Thanks & 73,

    Len, KD0RC

  • Steve KD2OM
    Steve KD2OM Member ✭✭

    Hi Len, I think it was mentioned in a message that was answered by someone at Flex that the radio should be shut down first before the supply. The shutdown like you are doing is not what I was talking about.

    What I was saying is when the radio is running and you pull the plug from the input of the linear supply like would happen if a power failure occurred. This would cause the DC voltage to drop slowly. Voltage sag to the SD card can cause corruption. That is why I run mine from the battery backup switch, we get power failures were I live and I usually have the radio on.

    This would happen in Mike’s system if the webswitch shuts down the supply. According to the diagram he does the same thing to the computer running win10. Eventually that will cause a problem.

    Steve KD2OM

  • KD0RC
    KD0RC Member, Super Elmer Moderator

    Ah, understood. Thanks for the clarification.

    Len

  • Alan
    Alan Member ✭✭✭✭

    Mike

    Good topic to discuss and share ideas. Your system looks very good.

    Since the end objective is to enhance remote reliability of the power source, I took a slightly different approach. I do not switch the power supply on some of my devices and I have a UPS based 13.8VDC bus.

    My 13.8 VDC is used for all devices, except for the PG-XL. The 13.8VDC is derived from a 110VAC / 13.8 VDC power supply and a 13.8 VDC battery combined using a Paradan "DC Gate" to a central UPS 13.8VDC bus. I do not switch the 120VAC to the power supply, the power supply 120VAC is alway on. The Paradan keeps the battery charged. This approach also eliminates several "power rats".

    I added a "low voltage disconnect" to the bus from the Power Gate, to ensure the downstream equipment is not damaged if I loose the 120VAC and the battery is drained to 11.5VDC. The disconnect will re-close when the 120VAC is restored and the power supply or battery voltage is greater then 12.0 VDC.

    Primarily for safety reasons, I added a manual overload/disconnect switch on the battery output to the Paradan DC Gate.

    I do not have a switch on the Flex Server 13.8 VDC input. The Flex Server is always powered up.

    I use a 12VDC to 24VDC voltage converter to power the SteppIR SDA100. I do not have a switch on the Stepp iR power in. SteppIR recommends the SDA100 power always be on because of the small "hold" voltage to the steppers. 24VDC is on the lower limit of the Stepp IR voltage specification.

    I power my Raspberry Pis, all LAN components, and the router, from the 13.8 VDC UPS bus. I use 12 VDC to 5 VDC voltage converters.

    I monitor the 13.8VDC bus using my Raspberry Pi. If the voltage drops below 12.5 VDC, Node-Red will shutdown the Flex Server using the Flex remote on/off option and "home" the SteppIR antenna.

    All components are fused. I use a powerpole fused power **** for the devices drawing more than five amps.

    For devices drawing less than five amps, I use a Electronics-Salon Power Distribution Fuse Board.

    Alan WA9WUD

  • Alan
    Alan Member ✭✭✭✭

    If you are concerned about the voltage decay rate when removing 120VAC power to the Flex 13.8VDC power supply, then I suggest you add a low voltage cutout switch such as as this. It will open the circuit when the power supply decays to 11.5 Volts.

    Although I use a 13.8 VDC battery for my Flex power, I also use this same low voltage cutout switch to ensure the Flex never sees less then 11.5 Volts, should I loose AC power for a long time period.

    You can select other dropout/pickup voltages if you like.

    Alan WA9WUD

  • KR5OG Paul K
    KR5OG Paul K Member ✭✭
    edited December 2020

    You guys are awesome this discussion has really got my mind working since I’m in the early stages of starting to set up something similar, keep up the good work maybe one day I will know enough to get mine operating very well thanks again.

    Paul

    KR5OG

  • Pete K6TJ
    Pete K6TJ Member ✭✭
    Somewhere I read that one can't just turn off the 12V to the Flex 6400 when powering off, like most radios are comfortable with. This means remote shutdown requires two steps from the operator, one is to release "Remote On" and the second, after the unit has shut down, is to power off the 12V, to save energy and reduce issues related to power line surges.

    A WebSwitch powers a 5V transformer-type wall wart (to avoid having one more switcher near the antennas) and can be remotely turned on/off. This controls a solid state 120VAC relay, through a diode, which controls the AC power to the 12V 25A power supply (not through the WebSwitch). Whenever this 5V is available, a transistor holds down the "Remote On" input. The control voltage for this relay is also powered, through a diode, by the USB 5V from the radio. Thus the solid state relay stays on after the WebSwitch has turned off the 5V transformer until the radio has turned off the USB, which (I presume) signals the end of the radio's need for power.

    So the remote operator only has to switch the 5V wall wart to power on or power off the radio.

    This sequencing can be done with a Raspberry PI running eg Node-RED but I don't have that stuff going yet and this insures safe, energy-efficient operation at the hardware level. I'm considering adding a UPS on the 12V PS to protect against unexpected power outages and condition the AC. If it is connected only to the 12V PS and the network goes down when power goes out, the radio will shut down before power is removed.

    Let me know your comments.
  • Mark_WS7M
    Mark_WS7M Member ✭✭✭

    While my "remote" is simply a shed next to my house at this point, we are considering a true remote at some point so all this data is great.

    I went the route of using the Digital Loggers DIN Relay. The new model is RF quiet. A prior model had a serial point and some other stuff on it and it was RF noisy.

    While it's expensive it had some features I did not want to fiddle with myself using a Pi or other devices. Namely it can auto-ping for network functionality and it has built in very good scripting, and it offers a web interface with password access.

    It has 8 relays each can switch 120V at 10A which is good enough for switching A/C power to various things. For 220V to the PGXL I use a 12V DPDT relay like other have. I have a port on the DIN relay switching 12V to that relay.

    Amazon has it for $179 which is expensive compared to a Pi, node red and a few connectors, but my time is also worth something and this was a solution that didn't require but a little scripting to get working as I wanted. I used to have a Pi controlling all of this at one point before a lightening strike took it out.

    The scripting routines are very good. Right now I have a "System On" and "System Off" script.

    System On does this:

    Ensures all devices are turned OFF

    Enables power to the two antenna disconnect motors

    Enables connect this drives the two linear stages together for antenna and power connection

    Turns on the 12V station power

    Turns on the PGXL relay

    Turns on the flex remote input

    Disables the motor power (24V rather noisy).


    System Off does this:

    Turn off flex remote, wait about 30 seconds

    Turn off PGXL relay

    Turn off 12V station power

    Enable power to disconnect motors

    Enable disconnect signal (this pulls the two stages apart)

    Turn off 24V motor power


    When in the "Off" state, both 110V and 220V power are physically disconnected from everything so the station power and PGXL are in effect floating and not connected to power or power ground.

    Antennas are disconnected a separated by about 5 inches of air gap.

    The only thing left connect to A/C power and it is going through an isobar surge is the DIN relay and the network switch.

    The goal of this power and antenna disconnect is to provide some relative protection from static build up and near strikes like we had in May 2019. I know that nothing will protect stuff from a direct strike. That is why I carry insurance.

    Anyway all of the above was possible with a single DIN relay ($179), a 12V high power relay, ($15), two 100A knife switches ($24), and some wiring.


    I also have the DIN relay switching individual power. IE I can turn off the station 12V and then turn it back on if I need a "cold" power cycle. I can also just disconnect 12V from Flex, Palstar tuner, or antenna genius.


    Good info in this thread. Lets keep it going!

  • WX7Y
    WX7Y Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2021

    I have run my station remotely separated by 100 feet from my and run my station when I'm traveling.

    I use the same DIN WEB power switch that Marc is using, these are VERY robust and you really don't want to over complicate your setup.

    I also run the 120V version of the WEB Power Switch's and use them to switch the 120V AC devices.

    I have my Node Red Desktop to put these switch's on a desktop, it makes it very covenant and powerful to switch devices OFF / ON running remotely is a breeze with almost full control of the whole station

  • chipp
    chipp Member
    I am new to the group and deciding if I should go Flex now that I have sold my K3, Remote Rig boxes, K3/0-mini etc. The remote site is 402 miles from my home QTH so having good power management and control is essential.

    I suspect this may be old hat to most but thought I would share my approach to handling remote power control. Hopefully it will be of interest to others. I use intelligent power strips (PDU's) typically deployed in data centers. New they are certainly cost prohibitive but you can find many circa 2003 and later on eBay at bargain prices. Server Technology, HP and Dual Com (220V) are the brands I have experience using, PDU's by Eaton, APC and others should work equally well. Make sure to thoroughly research the model number before purchasing. There are a lot of flavors. Some used in Telco applications are 48V units, others are **** expansion units that connect to a primary unit doubling the number of outlets available.

    Why I like them.

    Attached is a file with several screen shots of the built in Web server. Sixteen individually controlled outlet or I can group them together as shown in the second image. Any combination and Multiple group definitions are allowed. The outlets can be sequenced on with a user selected delay per outlet. I.e Turn on outlet one, wait 5 seconds turn on outlets 2 and 3 wait three seconds turn on outlet 4 etc. You can specify a normal state, either off or on, for each outlet. In the event of a power interruption the outlet will go to the specified "normal state. you can reboot individual outlets, assign meaningful names and lots more. The units also track power/current draw but is limited to the total for all outlets. External temperature humidity sensors etc are also available but hard to find. Fully password protected including SSH, SNMP, port assignments etc. There is also a serial port, although it is of most value if you have a traditional landline. This enables you to still have control if the internet connection is lost. The DualComS by Cyber Switching offers many of the same features. The ones I have are for 220/240 that can support dual power feeds. Great if you have a big Amplifiers like the OM Power OM4000A.

    DC Control

    For controlling individual dc powered devices, remote antenna switch, and other functions like turning on/off the fan on the dummy load remotely I use Green Heron devices that use "ZigBee" WiFi. A side benefit is the elimination of control lines from the shack to the remote switch. You can have up to 16 individual relay controls. It also has an optional rotor control if you use Green Heron rotor control units Green Heron uses a client /server architecture. I run the client on my home computer or laptop when traveling. This gives me complete control. I use PST Rotor the same way. I connect my remote WaveNode 2 via a Silex DS-520AN (eBay purchase).

    I run a PC at my remote site and have never had an issue. It runs 7 x 24 and is set to power back on when there is a power interruption. This happens more than i like. My remote station is in Tahoe National Forrest and power gets dropped due to storms, high winds etc. Glad to chat offline with anyone who finds this of interest. Chip w6my@arrl.net
  • Mike-VA3MW
    Mike-VA3MW Administrator, FlexRadio Employee, Community Manager, Super Elmer, Moderator admin

    @chipp

    I had run RemoteRig for years and it worked great, but I found it was really hard to integrate things and then also being able to use the station from different locations.

    I moved to Flex back about 2015 and haven't looked back. Now, NodeRed has helped to tie all things different together. You can see the video tour of on my QRZ page (va3mw).

    There are 100 ways to do this. That is how I did it (long before I started working for Flex).

    Your ideas are sound as well.

    73

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