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My Take on SSDR v3
Comments
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I do agree hams are cheap and I am cheaper than most hams.
V3.0 multi client was by far the most asked for new feature requested? You know this how?
Look at the comments in this thread, look at the likes. The community usually kisses up to Flex and Howard you are one of the more active cheerleaders. It is rare for there to be the kind of discord expressed in this thread in the community. You really think this is a small number of vociferous users ? I wonder how many upgraded 3.x compared to 2.x. The fee for 2.x was a bargain, not at all so with 3.x.
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Duane, why did I buy it? I don't think I wrote off the reason, more so it isn't relative. But since you ask. Because I can. While at this time I don't have a good use case for multi client I still like to see what it's about, how it works and what all the hype was about. I'm different than others in that I like to upgrade to the latest whatever. I guess it's curiosity. Also what was my option, really. Don't upgrade and have an outdated version for the rest of the time I own this radio? Never move ahead because I don't like something? I purchased the Flex because of the software updates and all that it can be. I'm just disappointed. I'm fully aware of the Ten Tec story but I doubt it was all because of free software. I agree, there should be more customer input on new features. Or at least a good way of passing on the ideas.1
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Flex did not stop support for PSDR because it was poor, they wanted an intire new direction. PSDR was not and still not able to do what Flex wanted to do going foreward. PSDR is Geralds creation.2
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Just a quick comment - if you don't upgrade to Ver 3, you're not stuck forever. I believe Flex is going to offer an update for 2.x to cover some bugs (don't know about any new features), and when Ver 4 comes up, if it has content you want, just upgrade to that for $199, assuming that's still the upgrade price. You'll get Ver 3 and Ver 4 contents then. Simple.1
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Bottom line, did a single person say 2.x wasn't worth it? Hams will vote with their feet, they will walk away.2
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Yeah that’s true Duane. I’m just a sucker for new software and updates. I like the experience and knowing what it’s about. That way I can be a better mentor to someone interested and be able to discuss it knowing first hand. While expensive I guess in that regard it was worth it.0
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Hi Kuby:
Are you suggesting hams are not Flex's biggest customers? Commercial or government users? Now you've got me wondering...
We have an Alpha team that pays Flex to test their software.
We have a Beta team (hamdom) that pays Flex to beta test their software.
Then it is sold to gov/com'l when fully baked?
You know something? That makes a terrible amount of sense to me. Could it be? Can't be. (Now I'm all in conspiracy theory mode.)
Kev3 -
I’m hoping Flex will add more enticing features to V3 ....the multi op feature is not of interest to me. If they add something else I might be tempted. What would really be disappointing is having V3 stay the same (except bug fixes of course) and then along comes V4 with something I really like and I have to have V3 already installed. I ran a training software company before I retired. Product development is a wonderful thing for customers but customer satisfaction and loyalty is Equally important. From what I’m reading V3 May be a real tax on the considerable loyalty satisfaction level Flex has earned. The bad press had clearly started and coupled with the PGXL debacle FLEX needs to tread carefully. I hope the revenue from V3 is worth the cost.1
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One thing is clear. With each new version released the division between satisfied customers and unsatisfied customers is getting more clearly defined.
One point in particular stands out - ops that purchase upgrades not for the features but to just support Flex. I wonder how much they "donate" to Kenwood or ICOM?
Flex radios are just radios and not a portal to Heaven. I refuse to bow down before my 6700 or offer up a sacrificial goat no matter how many lighting bolts it tosses at me.
.
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Seems plausible to me Kevin. Haha1
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News Alert!! I am not buying V3 either. My staion operation will not benefit from it. But I am not going to complain about, it's just not for me.
But I will say congrats to Flex for a release that puts Flex ahead of the competition again. This is no small feat, very complicated to pull this off.
For the remainder of V3 I would expect Flex to continue building on Multi client and allowing it to do even more things.
Nice thing is I can maybe buy V4 and get V3 as well under one price.
That's about all I want to say, A few people here are venting their anger at Flex and that's perfectly fine, why not? So continue as you were..lol.2 -
With all due respect, the $7000-$8000 Kenwood TS-990S performed dismally in the Sherwood Engineering Labs receiver performance measurements, coming in at 33rd place. The $7000 Flex 6700 took first place. Even the $1,000 IC-7300 came in at a respectable 19th place. The TS-990s performs at the level of a 30 year old radio. My Nikons don't charge for updates either but then they hardly ever update and they are nothing like a radio.2
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and my Brownie Hawkeye never needed a SW upgrade. HI HI. But the audio on the TS-990 S really does sound nice. It truly is a superhet with DSP, (RF, IF & AF) so, yes, you could say it is a 30 year old design.0
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Don, I think the TS-990 is an awesome looking radio. If I had that kind of money I'd probably have had one a couple years ago. Too bad for the Sherwood test. Regarding Nikon, Sony has an awesome feature called Eye-AF which focuses on the subjects eye. The new update enhances that feature to be full time and also... Animal Eye-AF! How cool! True the old DSLR technology is nothing like ham radio but the new cameras now are a whole new world.0
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... - who is FLEX's biggest customer(s)? Surely not HAMdom. So logic would say that Multi-Share is an offshoot of a bigger customer request.
That's a very astute question.
When 6000 was first released I joked that the sterile, uninspiring and shortchanged screen looked like something out of a government contract. (Been there, done that.)
Whether or not, it has seemed clear all along that this project was not responsive to ham users requests, as if it was dancing to another piper. Like maybe a spinoff from a primary customer who had very rigid specs?
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Before V4 & $199, can FLEX fix/patch (make work) V2... 'SSB DSP' to be as good if not better then all their competition? All I've wanted since starting this FLEX adventure with a 3K/PwrSDR is a good SSB DSP; unfortunately SmtSDR is STILL the same/bad as PwrSDR.
Rhetorical questions: will FLEX (parrot MS-Windows not being backwards compatible) so you must have V3 installed (purchased) to get V4 (installed/working) - forcing all to buy both? Will V4 be a glorified V3 Service Pack/bug-fix like Win98SE was? Will V4 work on WinXP or Win7?
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@kuby
While Flex Radio's may not be appropriate for those who are computer challenged, there are many videos both on the Flex site and on YouTube
GOOGLE IS YOUR FRIEND
Here are but a few aimed at Newbies from the Flex site
https://www.flexradio.com/videos-flex-6000/
Youtube
https://www.google.com/search?q=youtube+flexradio&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-US:IE-Se...=
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I've got a slightly different take on this so I thought I'd throw it in with the others. Given the size of the company I'm actually ok with paying for the upgrades under one very strong condition. And that's that Flex uses the revenue to provide the s/w improvements the customers paying for it really want.
In my case, I actually would have voted for the remote capability in V2 and MultiFlex in V3 as my first choices. I use my 6600 remotely a lot and I've already integrated MultiFlex into my workflow (there were some important bug fixes in V3 as well). Coupled with some neat things in FRStack, it's pretty cool.
But the DSP functionality is in desperate need of work and has been for a long time. It seems to me that should be the LAST thing customers routinely say about Flex radios. And it seems to me that nothing could benefit Flex sales and customer satisfaction more than being able to honestly advertise:
"By far the best DSP in the Industry"
and they're definitely not there yet. And based on lots of postings here, it seems clear it's the feature/ improvement that paying upgrade customers want most. I'm hoping Flex is going to focus on that next. It seems obvious that they should and given that the entire signal chain is accessible within software, very smart and experienced people with the resources paid upgrades and lots of sales should provide could achieve that if Flex set their minds to it.
Also, it seems obvious that voicing the desire for it everywhere possible including in this forum is necessary to get their attention - which us customers don't seem to have yet. However, I've got to say I find the "anti fan boy" population on this forum almost identical to the "fan boy" population, only in reverse. It's like two flavors of the same thing. It seems the exact same people show up everywhere on the internet no matter what the topic is. You'd think we'd eventually learn to focus on the arguments and not each other but that doesn't appear to be human nature. Anyway, that's my contribution - flame away...9 -
Flex has stated, that we should only buy a version that we want, and not untile. and any new version purchase also cover past versions as well.
All new versions have a main feature involved, V2 was about wan, and V3 is about multi Client, who know what feature V4 will be about.
Support for Win 7 is starting to slide because Microsft is dropping Win 7 as well.
Win 10 is the Windows being supported for some time.0 -
Scott, You are expressing the frustrations with Flexradio that many Flex owners have expressed over the five years I have owned a Flex. It interesting that so many Flex owners seem to verbally attack anyone who dares to point out an area of relatively poor performance, software bugs, or any issue viewed as negative commentary. I operated an electronics company that built sophisticated, firmware driven products. I am an EE and have a PhD. I have a fair understanding of the development and updating cycle. I also have a fair understanding of providing customer support to worldwide customer base. When our customers pointed out areas that needed improvement, bugs, or asked for changes, we listened—we did not adopt a defensive posture. We learned a lot from our customers that resulted in better products and increased sales. In my opinion, Flexradio has not learned this lesson. I have an ACOM amplifier. It failed in a manner that indicated a design issue. I contacted the factory in Bulgaria, exchanged a few technical emails, and they paid to have the amp returned to Bulgaria, completely updated it, and returned to me. No defensive behavior, just great customer service. I have commented on the poor DSP functionality at some length over a few years, as have many others. I have willingly paid for the V2 and V3 major updates, assuming that some of these long standing issues would eventually be fixed. Apparently, customer inputs do not carry much weight in the Flexradio development process. I own a Flex-1500 and a Flex-6500. The 1500 has better NR. I have owned an ANAN 100D and an ANAN 7000DLE Mkll. Both have far better recovered audio and cleaner transmit audio than my Flex-6500. This is interesting to me, as the ANAN uses open source firmware and software, written on a part-time basis by volunteers. I like my 6500. I use it everyday and I use the remote and iPad features. It is a good radio, but it would be so much better if Flexradio adopted a more customer focused update process and addressed the long standing issues customers have repeatedly requested to be fixed. Larry, W1IZZ12
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>HAMS ARE CHEAP. ANYTHING OTHER THAN FREE IS TOO MUCH.
I think this old saw is mostly a false flag. Happy Hams spending $200 are not cheap. It's when they are unhappy at not being listened to or feel they have been short-changed they complain. They are not "cheap".
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@Kev
" If the most requested feature in the past two years has been multi (I have serious doubts)"
If you had spent time on this forum over the past several years, you would easily conclude the multi-client and using the knobs on the Maestro and M series as a mirror control surface for SSDR were the most desired ADDITIONAL Features requested by customers. V3.0 achieved Multi-Client Hopefully V3.1 will achieve the Control Surface Mirroring so much desired (albeit one of the 3rd Party Apps seems to have done that already)
As Flex says, if you do not like or need the features of 3.0 DO NOT BUY IT
V2.5 will have the bug fixes and changes of 3.0 without Multi-Client. it will be FREE but you will have to wait for the code to be merged backwards to 2.5
Note: I said ADDITIONAL Features.. yes I agree that some current features could use improvements - those NEW improved features might be part of V4 albeit I have no idea what Flex plans.
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As someone who works for a software driven hardware company I can tell you this is a dilemma many companies face. You build hardware with a software/firmware platform and its sort a catch 22 because you first have to fix errors and make the hardware operate as promised, then of course comes the improvements where you essentially make no profit if you don't charge something for them. Programmers do not work for free, and thus the smaller the company the more critical overhead becomes. We all want new features, and if we had to buy hardware for them, AKA a new radio, we would groan but ante up. Is 199 a fair price? The market is actually in the process of determining that right here right now. I have been pleased with Flex support and the 6300 I own, and would hope they survive in the market to support it into the future. At some point once I see a rev of V3 that addresses some things, I am willing to pay something because I see value in the product as is and hopefully in the future. In the end each person has to make a value-cost judgement and we as owners will have to live with the company going forward or not. This just some observations having seen companies come and go and live by the market forces they actually create. It is in the end up to each owner to value or not.
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I suspect Sony just might have a few more employees and products than Flex, so perhaps Sony can afford to give away software upgrades, along with the man hours required to development the software, documentation, etc, and all that easily gets absorbed into Sony's massive company profits. (Save that.)
Rather than having the option to spend $199 on a software upgrade perhaps Flex should adapt the policy that ICOM, Yaesu and others use. No more long term software enhancements but instead just supersede the 6400/6600/6700 models with a whole new radio every 2 or 3 years. And like ICOM and the rest, no trade-ins.
Some people don't know when they have it good.
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FYI- there are Flex Radios on the International Space Station.. and Flex admits to making radios with Multiple Receivers...
FOLKS--> Get your conspiracy tin foil pyramid hats on0 -
To add to your comments Larry, I already paid for the less than world class DSP in my 6400. So any improvements to the DSP should be as free UPDATES, not via paid UPGRADES.
Bob W8RMV
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FWIW I think the 990s is a really beautiful box.
I just added a D850 to my Nikon lineup. I thought long and hard about the new mirrorless Nikon but the D850 won out. I'm going to wait for the next gen of mirrorless before I take that plunge...probably about 4 years.0 -
Hi Howard,
RE" " If you had spent time on this forum over the past several years, you would easily conclude the multi-client and using the knobs on the Maestro and M series as a mirror control surface for SSDR were the most desired ADDITIONAL Features requested by customers."
I have the "ideas" list displayed on my community view and sorted by user votes.
MultiFlex, MultiClient, or something similar does not show up in the top 10. In fact I can't find it in the top 100. Maybe I missed a less obvious reference.
There is an idea to create a Maestro like control as a replacement to the Flexcontrol but that was the closest I could find. And it is more about the knobs and not about multi client.
https://community.flexradio.com/flexradio/topics/maestrocontrol-the-next-generation-flexcontrol
Is there another place or process to see the most requested ideas beside the ideas list and count of use votes?
Regards, Al / NN4ZZ
al (at) nn4zz (dot) com
P.S. -- I have some notes on how to set up to see the ideas list sorted by votes if anyone else want to take a look.
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