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SmartSDR - Annual Costs - ????



  • Ken - NM9PKen - NM9P Member ✭✭
    edited March 2019
    Yes. If you don’t buy V.2 and go straight to V.3, it only costs you the fee for V.3. At present, all the upgrades build upon one another....
  • Johan _ SE3XJohan _ SE3X Member ✭✭
    edited March 2019
    Second that! if Flex would change back to a maintenance fee instead of current system, send me an e-mail .. I will have a 6700 for sale immediately!
  • EA4AYWEA4AYW Member
    edited March 2019
    Sure, but the consumer has to pay, and therefore be flex or state you have to pay € 242. and this comes out of your pocket.
    nobody pays you

  • EA4AYWEA4AYW Member
    edited March 2019
    I do not agree with your answer.
    When I buy the flex, it's because I liked it and I still like it, what we are talking about here is that from the first flex flex decides to charge for the software. and this is what we do not agree with.
    that already the flex radios are not cheap, as to have to pay for software and others every year.
    At this rate after 10 years, I can already buy my second flex, if I do not pay for the updates.
    the exorbitant price they are charging is not reasonable.
    I do not say that they do not charge, but a reasonable price, not 200 $ more Taxes.
    this is an outrage for most amateur radio.
    and I no longer say to those who have 2 or 3 or more flex radios
    because the amount is multiplied by each radio that you have and want to update.

  • Ken HansenKen Hansen Member ✭✭
    edited July 2019
    The 21.5% VAT is a tax that Spaniards have imposed on themselves to fund their local government, you can't reasonably expect Flex to offer it's goods at reduced prices in high-tax regions.
  • Ken HansenKen Hansen Member ✭✭
    edited March 2019
    "that already the flex radios are not cheap, as to have to pay for software and others every year." No, you don't have to pay for software every year (or every other year, or ever). You bought the radio and have a permanent license to use the software it shipped with forever. This is just like a radio from any of the 'big three' radio manufacturers - you buy a radio and it is feature-locked for life. You have the OPTION, if you DESIRE, to UPGRADE your radio for a nominal fee, but it is not forced on anyone. You want Flex to offer continual major improvements after the sale at no additional cost, and (based on a previous comment in this thread) you want Flex to offer their products in your country at lower prices to offset local 21.5% VAT? That doesn't seem like a successful business model.
  • FRED  W9TBFRED W9TB Member ✭✭
    edited June 2019
    I just have one thing to say to you people crying about the cost of V3. If you can't afford the hobby get out of it.
  • KevinKevin Member
    edited March 2019
    Pretty ugly.
  • Johan _ SE3XJohan _ SE3X Member ✭✭
    edited March 2019
    Agree with you Kevin. Unneccesary and rude. Could use stronger words, but refuse to lower myself to that level. 
  • Michael CosloMichael Coslo Member
    edited March 2019
    I fear that this subject has been beaten to death, other than it's entertainment value. Some people demand free stuff, and some understand that if a company is obliged to support people forever, for nothing, that a company providing all this largess will not be in business very long.

    It is an old trope to suggest that a dissatisfied person go elsewhere to be happy, but very few people here want a different update schedule,a subscription,  or mind paying for major updates in order to help keep Flex financially solvent.  But I don't know of any other solution. If a person doesn't want to pay for the major updates, but wants the major updates, it kind of makes their path forward pretty obvious. 

    These are exceptionally good radios. And I have firsthand experience with other really good radios to make that as a statement of fact. If you want an exceptionally good radio, you have to pay for that quality.

  • Lawrence GrayLawrence Gray Member
    edited March 2019
    Amateur radio has a long history as a hobby that could be enjoyed with a minimum of expense.  Hams have a history of building gear, antennas, etc out of collected "stuff" and getting on the air.  The discussion about the $200 upgrade charge has little to do with being able to afford the hobby and more to do with the individual's perception of the value received from the upgrade.  The comment telling people to "...get out of the hobby..."   is  inappropriate and contrary to the spirit of amateur radio.  Shame on you.
  • Bill -VA3WTBBill -VA3WTB Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 2019
    EA4AYW, So there you have it, your objections have been heard, how ever the policy of Flex is not likely to change. You are not considering that for Flex, this is not a hobby, it is a business, their lively hood. They pay employees. Perhaps you have know idea how expensive working on SSDR software is, my guess is you don't. None of us do.

    You continue to suggest that there is a mandatory software fee each year. This is not true and very misleading, I would suggest you stop saying that so as not to confuse others.

    For me? it will cost me over $300.00 to upgrade here in Canada, much more then almost all of you. It is the same for anything I buy from the states.

    So, It sounds like you need to make a choice, of witch I can not help you with.

    This thread seems un helpful any longer.

    Good luck
  • EA4AYWEA4AYW Member
    edited March 2019
    So it seems normal to you not having spent a year of the update to V2, which is already the v3 and you have to pay again; I repeat that they are not $ 200.
    They are $ 200 plus taxes.
    It is true that nobody forces you, but it is not logical.
    and the one that has more than 1 Flex radio, you think it's logical that you have to pay $ 200 plus taxes for each radio.
    I assure you that it has no logic.

    and I did not say that I do not like flex.
    I love Flex, what I do not like is the new policy that has taken to charge for the software such a high amount.
    when half of what is added in the new versions, they are errors that solve from the old versions.
    and add something new to open our eyes.
    which in version 2 was more or less acceptable.
    but in version 3, it is not admissible.
  • EA4AYWEA4AYW Member
    edited March 2019
    If I mentioned the sun SDR, it is not necessary to have the top of range, with the lower version is more than enough and its price starts at € 1500 and other includes 144 (VHF) which flex only includes it in version 6700 and if We talk about price this version costs more than the SUN SDR.
    and the advantage of sun sdr, is that it does not charge for its updates.
    Eye, I do not like sun sdr, I'm flex.
    and my policy is against having to pay so much money for the updates.
    if you pay 10 updates it is as if you had paid a flex 6400 or a 6300.
    you believe that waste is logical.
    when the news of the version 3 for the majority does not serve them.
    and I repeat this in my hand update or not.
    but this is not the case we are dealing with.
  • EA4AYWEA4AYW Member
    edited March 2019
    I remind you that if there were $ 200 plus taxes every two years, it would not be bad.
    but less than 1 year ago came v2, and now v3.
    and this is not two years.
  • EA4AYWEA4AYW Member
    edited March 2019
    """But back to the point, Flex has much credibility because of the charge for major upgrades, they are accountable to us, customers. They must create updates to improve the radio performance and to make the radio more fun to use."""


    responding to this comment, remember that flex is charging us part of something new, is charging us for their deficiencies in the software and for their errors.
    which should not be like that.
    they should not camouflage among so many words the true novelties of each version.
    since in this v3, they do not seem appropriate.
    and then see a list of errors corrected from previous versions.
    that you do not realize truth.
    85% are errors that are corrected in the new version and the remaining 15% is something new, that in the case of V2, it was not bad, but it works with problems, but in v3 it does not work for the majority.

    I remember a problem that is very frequent and that flex does not solve once and for all.
    remember when windows does some software update and suddenly when you start the smartsdr, a DAX error jumps.
    to the evidence I refer.
    they took out a procedure that drives us crazy, because it never works, but they have never corrected so that this problem does not happen again.
    and this problem is not new.
    is from the origins of smartsdr.
    what do you think.
    and like this problem many more.

    Another, in v1, the smart sdr could work perfectly with the vox in any condition.
    Well in v2, the vox stops working if you have the dax panel control active.
    and they still have not solved it.
    and if you want, I keep saying things.
    so you can see that we are like lambs that the shepherd, in this case flex takes us where he wants.
    enough now.

  • EA4AYWEA4AYW Member
    edited March 2019
    Totally agree.
    In each region you have your taxes.
    and this can not be discussed.
    But you have to be realistic.
    in Spain, the flex license does not cost € 200.
    yes no € 240
    therefore we are not talking so cheerfully of $ 200.
    I know that flex here does not influence,
    but if it affects our pocket.
    even if you do not want to see it.

    and I know that in some other region the tax is still more expensive, as has been said in the thread.
  • edited March 2019
    EA4AYW - you are complaining about paying taxes levied by the country you live in. Where you live has nothing to do with FRS. You live where you live because that is where you choose to live. 

    I am a Scotsman but I choose to live in France - the reasons don't matter, it is my choice.

    Therefore if I want to buy SSDR V3 it will cost me 200.00 plus 19% French VAT - which works out at 238.00. BUT it is my choice whether or not to buy.

    Your second point, if I have multiple Flex radios, why should I pay for software for each radio?

    I'll answer the question with another one.

    I have a car, my wife has a car, my 2 children have a car each. So that is 4 cars in my family. In France, as in most other countries, to drive my car I MUST have insurance and fuel. My wife and children also have to buy insurance and fuel for their cars.

    Do you complain that you have to buy 4 lots of insurance and 4 lots of fuel?

    Of course you may complain but if you don't buy insurance for each car, then you run the risk of all sorts of penalties if you are caught or God forbid cause an accident. If you don't buy fuel, then eventually your car is not going to be driven anywhere.. 

    There is however a difference with your Flex Radio - you don't NEED to buy software because your radio will still work with whatever version of SSDR it came with. You WANT to buy the new version because you think it will be of benefit to YOU. 

    I can only afford (or want) 1 radio so for me the choice is simple: buy the software or not.

    If you want 'free' software, sell your 6XXX radio and buy a Flex 5000 or a 1500. The software is open source and KE9NS seems to be doing an amazing job building more and more usability into PowerSDR.

    To make help me make that decision, I will read the release notes from FRS and I will watch the postings in here about what it does or does not do. Then I will decide, again, it is MY choice.

  • EA4AYWEA4AYW Member
    edited March 2019
    I must remember that the cost of a Flex Radio with sdr technology is much cheaper than a normal station.
    and that its strong is the software.
    precisely for that reason, flex would have to take another business model.
    if they want to charge annually for each update, lower the price of their stations. instead of a flex 6700 it costs 7744 € to put it at an affordable price, and you'll see how more people would gladly pay for their updates.

    The problem and we all know what it is, that if you do not update to the new big version, you do not correct the problems of the old versions.
    and we all know and do not be fools, that flex is dumped in the new versions, and not in constantly updating the old versions.
    so in one way or another you are being forced in a certain way to update to the latest version.

    I know I will not change the opinion of those who are in favor of paying for the software.
    I do not intend it.
    Whoever wants to pay for it.
    I'll see if I pay for the new versions or not.

    As you said before is a BUSINESS, but for FLEX, not for users.
    for us it is a great expense.
  • EA4AYWEA4AYW Member
    edited March 2019
    I'm sorry to tell you, you're not understanding anything.
    nobody is crying for the v3.
    what is being discussed is that flex should not charge so much for these versions, when the biggest update that these versions have are bug fixes that originated in older versions.
  • EA4AYWEA4AYW Member
    edited March 2019
    yes sir, and you already pay when you buy a flex 6700, or a 6500, or a 6600.
    you do not believe
    in comparison with the rest of radios.

    I repeat that it is my opinion, and it is so respectable with yours.
    and I'm sure that flex will not take them into account, nor mine, nor those of many flex users.
    and will continue with its policy of charging for important updates the $ 200 plus taxes at the moment.
    if he does not propose to upload it in the near future
    and surely the majority will agree.
    but we already know what there is.

    that nobody is offended, it is simply my opinion that I had to express it publicly, because I am already afraid that everyone will play with us as if we were fools.
  • EA4AYWEA4AYW Member
    edited March 2019
    Strongly agree Lawrence
  • Matt (K0KB)Matt (K0KB) Member
    edited June 2019
    On what entitled socialist planet is remote access and multi user a bug fix?
  • Matt (K0KB)Matt (K0KB) Member
    edited March 2019
    You just flat out lie to fit your agenda. SSDR v2 came out in July 2017. V3 still isn’t out but by the time it does it will be nearly 2 years.
  • EA4AYWEA4AYW Member
    edited March 2019
    Right, Bill, I do not rectify it every year.
    but if it is every year and a half approximately.

    because the first official version v2.0.14 RC (2017-07-14)
    were on this date.

    This is not two years that I know.
  • EA4AYWEA4AYW Member
    edited March 2019
    hi Tim,
    I'm sorry that you take this the way I do not want you to take it.
    but anyway.
    You are very wrong with the 4 cars and the 4 insurance.
    Yes indeed, I have more than one car, more than one motorcycle, and more than 1 insurance.
    The difference is that to be able to use a car.
    it is MANDATORY, to have insurance and it is MANDATORY, to put gasoline, since otherwise the car does not work.
    It is not an optional thing.
    as you well say, because in case of not having insurance, we are talking about a crime that can cost us dearly.
    It is true that you have the decision of not having insurance, but you risk going to jail if you hit someone.
    therefore it is not an option, it is an obligation.
    and as for gasoline, it is an obligation, too, because if you do not throw gasoline the car does not work.
    therefore it is not comparable.

    I understand that flex have a model of nogocio.
    and it is very respectable as my opinions.
    and I understand that flex copper for your software annually or every two years.
    But for people who have more than one flex station, what you should do is, if the station is of the same indicative, only charge a license for all the flex radios you have.
    and not charge license for each radio.
    this would be more fair.

    It is true that I am not complaining here about the country in which I live.
    it's my choice and nobody else's.
    Like any of you.

    What I am saying is that the cost of the license is not $ 200.
    the cost that we have to pay is $ 200 plus taxes.
    Be of the country that they are.
    nothing more.
    It benefits flex or the state.
    We pay $ 200 plus taxes, and it's the reality.

    Tim do not make mistakes, I'm not going to sell my radio, and you should not go into that controversy.
    I like my radio and if I have it, it's because I want to.
    and not because of having to pay for software, I'm going to get rid of it, as long as I manage to keep my version updated and to correct faults in the version I purchased.
    not forcing to change the version.

    As it is well said, in the thread.
    The version change is optional.
    as it is optional that I of my opinion.
    like it or not.
    My comment is as respectable as yours.
    and that of many people who think about it and who do not express it.

    Do not take it personally, it's just a criticism out loud.
    a greeting.
  • EA4AYWEA4AYW Member
    edited March 2019
    Matt, I have not lied in any case.
    I said that the first version 2 that went on sale was 2017-07-14, as you can see.
    Please, I suggest you read my comment well.
    I have not said that the v3 has come out either
    a greeting.

    PS: do not try to put in my mouth what I did not say.
  • edited June 2019
    I do understand what you are saying about the taxes benefiting the country and not Flex. What I am saying is that FRS have no control over whether or not such taxes are levied. If you live in Texas, same state as Flex, then you will pay 6% state tax for any you buy from Flex. Simple fact of life and you wouldn't expect it to be any different.

    What I take issue with is that you are complaining about having to pay the tax. I have great sympathy with that point of view. I don't see why I should pay the French Government VAT for a product which was not written/manufactured in France but that is the way that it is and no amount of complaining will get us anywhere. 

    So, we agree that the imposition of taxes is something we have to accept.

    So, other than that do you think that 200.00 is a reasonable sum to pay for what, hopefully, will be an enhancement to you radio?


    PS, I do not take offence at your reply, and I hope you don't take offence at my original posting or reply. I think that at base level, we actually agree!

  • Matt (K0KB)Matt (K0KB) Member
    edited March 2019
    You said it. image
  • KC2QMA_JohnKC2QMA_John Member ✭✭
    edited March 2019

    Some of those taxes are why the other countries have universal Healthcare for all of it citizens!

    We just use our taxes in the USA to start wars all over the world while ignoring the needs of our own people.

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