SmartSDR - Annual Costs - ????

David H Hickman

Ok. This is getting ridiculous.  

$200 a year to keep my radio current?

Of course it is "optional" until it is not optional. 

I have been in IT for 30 years. I have seen this model before, and it did not play out  well for the companies that did it. In the end, they either went under, went to a subscription model, or gave out the software for free.

Why don't you switch to a service model where you charge something like $5 a month or $60 a year. This service can include the remote services, support,  updates, etc.

You will find that most of the owners will go for this model over paying out $200 every year or so for "optional" updates.

The problem with optional updates is that it will introduce security issues to the v2 models since they are internet facing and lets be honest, you are not microsoft and keep legacy systems patches going for years after a release.

The other issue is that the resale value of the radio drops by $200 the minute a new version comes out.  Right now for new flex people, an icom 7300 ( yes, I know it is not a fair comparison but it is a choice people make) NEW costs around $1100.  A flex 6300 costs around $1200 used. Once 3.0 is out, the flex is now worth $1000 at best unless it has ver 3.0 installed.

A newbie to SDR will look at the self contained Icom for $1000 - $1100 NEW and they simply drop it in, or do they want to get a flex and have the learning curve?   This is a conversation that is taking place on the nets right now and most people lean toward the IC7300 since it is good enough and they do not have to pay for updates.

I love my flexradio, but you need to re-evaluate your software model, it will have long term impact on your products.  

K6OZY

Lance Rasmussen

Having also been in IT for as long, as well as running a small vertical market software, I've seen these different models and it's still common to charge for major upgrades. Prices, of course, vary. FLEX is not a product that is going to see several million customers to support a dirt cheap option. Plus, the radios are not conducive to a Adobe cloud type model where you pay and when you dont, you shut down. It really boils down to this. If you are too cheap to upgrade or do not see the benefits of the major upgrade- dont. Easy peasy. For those that see the benefit - upgrade. All my other radios... when they release a new version with features I want, i have to sell the radio and buy a whole new one. For Flex - the software is the magic.

Bill -VA3WTB

paul

Lawrence Gray

Mark WS7M

spopiela

I somewhat agree with the original post. Quicken changed their software business model because people would go for years without any of the yearly updates. There was little yearly functional update so users didn’t want to waste money.Their software also started getting long in the tooth and having performance issues. They changed to a subscription model after change in ownership and everything has improved. I think the new business model pays for improvements. The difference between a quicken example and flex is that there is a strong tie to hardware... I’m not talking about the computer but rather the radio. As time moves on and a radio hits it’s technology plateau, the associated software will have to plateau. Software Upgrades then have to stop To that software baseline. As computers evolved Windows OS had to change. I have first geration 6500 and upgraded software one time. Unless there is a major upgrade to hardware , I’ll be sticking with the current radio and pay for updates. Probably will be many years of updates. Stan

Delbert McCord

Harold Bullard

Gentlemen, I see this from the same perspective. Even worse I have a 6300 and a 6700. I had a bad experience at the Huntsville, Al Hamfest two years ago concerning purchasing upgrade software. He told me in no certain terms that I would buy software to get bug fixes. I bought V2 on March 5 , 2018. I sent an email asking if cost would be incurred in under a year of release. There was no reply. Only one copy ... well I found out my 6700 had to have its own copy. $400/year is high price to pay for buggy software. Some good software writer could do well 3000 users X $200 bux. Flex please help those Hams that put you where you are. K5WHB

David H Hickman

A major update every year ( along with bugfixes/etc) is a little unreasonable. 

Flex is trying to adopt a software model that has been proven to not to work.  What happens is that it fragments the userbase and causes long term dissatisfaction with their user base since it is impossible to a hardware/software company to maintain several version lines of software for the same hardware.  

What ends up happening if a competitor does not end up buying the company out, is that the company switches to a software subscription model or they charge for value-added services and give away the firmware for free.

A perfect example of this is Apple OSX.  Apple used to charge the full price of their OS for each major release. What happened was a significant number of their userbase did not upgrade unless they had to. This caused support issues for Apple and eventually caused dissatisfaction. Microsoft also used to use this model.

Apple's next step was to capitalize the cost of the operating system in the original hardware purchase and then charge a nominal ( $20 ) fee for each new major version of the OS.  What they found was that people still would not upgrade.  Then Microsoft switched to model where the the OS is capitalized in the initial OEM purchase and then is free for the life of the product.  

Currently, both Apple and Microsoft offers all upgrades to their operating systems for free. This has allowed users to migrate to the more current versions of the OS and in the long run lowers support costs for these companies.

Flex can easily justify a subscription model to use their remote access features of the radio. A small fee like $5 a month, or $60 a year would generate more ongoing revenue than relying on the hope that a specific number of people will adopt a $200 fee to get major release.

 

paul

I bought  a 6600 because it has two  SCU's and is much less expensive than 6700. I now run a transverter and 6m at the same time on one radio freeing up one of the 6300's

roger na4rr

KF4HR

Harold Bullard

Bill -VA3WTB

Michael Coslo

If a person is willing to put up with the toylike performance of an Icom IC-7300, they aren't in the market for a Flex. After using one for field day last year, the front end is a RF funnel. I was on 6 meters, hearing every other station we were using they were on 40 and 20 meters. A cute radio, but a bit of a not ready for prime time clunker. We have an Icom IC-7610 for our club. I'd sooner use a 6300 rather than that as well.  It's Okay, but still could use some work. 

But the issue of updates. Unlike the subscription method, no one is forced to get them. My 6300 (now ex-6300) would operate well on the software it originally came with. Remoting it would be more involved, but I could still do it easily. 

And under a subscription method, once you stopped paying, would the radio still work? Check out Office 365 or Adobe Creative Suite. Once you buy in, you are locked in. 

paul

Have  you tried  putting  different  bands in different slices?  With 6600 you can  have  4 slices and have  a selection of two different antennas gl

Bill -VA3WTB

A multi unit DX station stands to save many thousands of dollors because of using Flex and multi client features. Two people per radio, two radios per GPXL amp.

Instead of a radio per operator, and multible amps,,think of the cost. It seems unlikely DX stations will cry over version upgrade cost.

Other than an upgrade to ANF and NB and the record and playback, I can't think of really anything that needs fixing.

Bill -VA3WTB

:example, when doing DX and switching bands you loose the frequency you were on on the other band, thus causing lost contacts.

Why would you lose anything?

Jerry WA9UKB

I have stayed with version 1 and will not upgrade due to earlier bug fixes not being done and being also lowballed on a upgrade trade in value of a 6500 at $199.00 back Dec So an upgrade would not be an option as the apparent decline in the market value of the 6500.

Ken Hansen

Wow, so many apples-to-oranges comparisons! First you compare a brand-new Radio with a discontinued model only available as used/refurbished. Next, the iC-7300 is a $1,000 Radio, the 6300 was, and it's replacement is, a $2,000 Radio. The IC-7300 is a 3 year-old radio, and it's feature set has not expanded in any significant way since introduction, the Flex by comparison is longer in the tooth yet it's feature set expands year after year for a nominal price. If the day ever comes where Icom sees fit to upgrade the IC-7300, it would most likely be a so-called 'forklift upgrade' where the owner has to replace their radio, the flex owner likely pays a nominal fee and the value of their investment holds. If I bought a 6300 at $1300 and an IC-7300 for $1100, in six months, when I go so sell each radio, even in your worst-case scenario, the flex would sell just north of $1,000, the IC-7300 would sell for well-under $1,000, maybe around $800 - I see greater value in the Flex, even after ring 'forced' to pay for (feature-adding) upgrades.

Bill -VA3WTB

roger, maintenance releases have always been free.

Mack

Flex has already announced there will be a 2.5 release at no cost to current 2.4.9 users. At least state facts correctly.

Mack
W4AX
Alpha Team

Gene Duprey

Jerry WA9UKB

Bug fixes was what I hoped for in version 1. When 2 came out their were no more bug fixes for anyone that didn’t upgrade.

KC2QMA_John

Bill -VA3WTB

Michael Coslo

What I don't understand is why things that some consider bugs work for me. I must be doing something wrong. 

Delbert McCord

I do not know about resale value on the flex, at least what they call "the cheep one" I paid just under 2500$ for my 6300 with a tuner, had to wait for it and when I ordered the 6400 I was told they would have a nice trade in program. When the time come to ship the 6400 they called and said I would get around 800 dollars for my trade in. I kept it for a spare. I just could not take such a large hit, I would rather have given it away to a friend. I understand they would have to resell it and they need to make money but I must say it left a bad taste in my mouth. 

Steve Sampson