SmartSDR - Annual Costs - ????

Oxford English

Haven't we been here before when SSDR V2 was released?

Not one comment I have read from those who object to Flex's business model have added anything new to the debate.

Many have said it, including me, if you had read what FRS have said, it was obvious that a 'major' software release, denoted by the change from 1 to 2 or 2 to 3, that this would be a paid upgrade.

Like most Flex users, I have no problem with this model. If I choose not to buy the latest version my radio won't stop work exactly as it does with whatever version of the software I have.

OK, so you don't think that this feature or that feature works or isn't implemented to suit your taste, you are entitled to your opinion and I will defend your right to express it but, by the same token, you cannot deprive me of the right to disagree.

What I find difficult to accept is the vitriolic comments that some people make. We are all supposed to be reasonably educated people, surely it's not difficult to express your opinions in a reasonably educated way?

For me, it was a very big decision to buy a Flex in the first place but having done so, as someone who has been in IT for over 40 years and owned some of the most highly rated radios in nearly 60 years of Hamming, I can honestly say that, as far as I am concerned, FRS produce some of the best radios in the world and my Ham experience is far better now than it ever was.
One last thought, if you can afford 5 Flex radios, then surely you can afford to buy one copy of the software and try it. If you don't think it adds to you experience, don't upgrade your other radios.

The choice is yours, buy the upgrade or don't but please stop whinging about something you knew from day 1 of buying a Flex radio.

Tim

Kevin

We've been here before. We'll be here again. New people come to the group. Old people (from a forum perspective) have issues that remain unresolved. $200 is not trivial. For me, that would be paying $200 to stay up to date on the latest code everyone else is using even if I'm not using any of the new features. I do not believe I would get bug fixes to old issues if I stuck with 1.x.

So... maybe not new to you but new or still of importance to others.

The choice is yours, ignore the thread or not but please stop whinging about something you know is going to happen every time someone asks for $200 for questionable (by some) updates.

Point is, there's tons of great threads to join in on in this forum. If this one is not to your liking try one of the others. Or not.

Kev

Mike VE3CKO

ok, my opinion now. Bla, bla bla bla, bla bla, bla bla. Same old, same old repeated many times in the past. Should just cut and paste from old threads. First off the thread title even with the question marks is designed to guarantee responses from both sides. Anyone who thinks there is an annual fee to operate a Flexradio is just plain misinformed for all the reasons stated by many so far. You need to do some BASIC and I mean basic research. It's all been said here many times before but I do understand there are many new users of this community and Flexradio who don't know how to use the search feature of the community.

As per subscription for remote, as much as I don't like to shoot down ideas, the scenario of someone paying a monthly subscription so they can remote in to their own radio is a model that isn't worth the time to discuss. Who will actually pay that? Of all the people I know who have gotten a Flexradio, I can't think of anyone who would every pay a subscription in order to remote to their radio.

I and others have said this in the past. The ball is always in FRS's court when it comes to updates. If the features/improvements are good, people will upgrade. If they are not, they won't. FRS has a track record of implementing innovative and industry leading features and it is in their best interest to continue to do so, and all of us will benefit. OK, said it, now to get off my high horse.

Bill -VA3WTB

I think we need to be clear about a few things.
It is important to understand what a bug in SSDR is and what type it is.

Any bug that effects the performance of the radio or makes the radio work poorly will always be addressed for all the versions, V1  V2 and so on.

Critical  bugs are not version frozen. New features are.

People complaining of having many many bugs? what are they? count them. And in what type are they,,critical or non critical. It is up to Flex to determine what type they are. Not us.
Also, as an example. If Flex decides to work on the NB and ANF again and it happens to fall in V3,****,  then that work and corrections would be back ported into V2 and maybe V1 because these filters are not new features. They are pre existing ones needing updating. But as V1 is feature frozen so will V2 at some point. Likely after V3 is out.

If Flex does work on the DSP in a way that it is a new feature in the way it works in V3 or V4,,then yes to get that upgrade we would need to buy that new version.

I know Flex employees do not post here much any more, but if I am way off target then a comment would be nice on this.

Michael Coslo

Hi Mike - You bring up the title of the thread " SmartSDR - Annual Costs - ????"

We can answer that question immediately. 

The annual cost of operating a Flex radio is $0.00. 

You can if you wish, purchase newer versions of the software. No one is forcing anyone. 

But I don't know if they changed the radios, (of course they didn't) but my 6300 I recently traded in, would function very well if I loaded the software from the original disc and ignored it afterward. 

All radios can have issues. All radios do. I also use a K3S. The Panadapter is bad. You can tune and the signal you are looking for disappears in the noise that shows up. Great on CW, Just okay on SSB. Our KPA1500s did get a firmware update recently - to keep them from blowing up on 160 meters. We have a 7610. It's okay, but not terribly intuitive. I could have saved a few thousand by buying one. But it just isn't the radio. And they've been having their own issues. One thing I do know - if I lose power during an update, I don't brick my Flex and have to send it back.

I'd just advise people to consider if they are happy with their radio. I'd advise to try a few experiment with things they think do not work. Life is too short to become angry about a radio, and about paid updates that you may or may not need.

Ed Stallman

Simple question, I bought my 6600 new in July 2018 . Will I need to pay for V3 

Thanks Ed N5DG

KY6LA_Howard

Yes

Joe N3HEE

October 2018 was the cutoff for free upgrades to V3.  I purchased in August 2018.  I will wait to see what V2.5 brings in the way of fixes and enhancements.

Joe N3HEE

Or a good bottle of Scotch !!

Pete - W6OP

You really need to look at the whole idea differently. You buy a PC which is hardware. It came with Windows XP, MSOffice and some other apps. As time goes by you can "pay" for an upgrade to Windows 7 and then to Vista and then to Windows 10. You may also buy MSOffice upgrades and upgrades to other apps.

Or, you can stay on Windows XP and the original version of all your apps until there is something that compels you to upgrade the OS or an app. Or wait and buy a new PC at some future date that has the newer software.

The Flex Radio is the same, you bought a piece of hardware that came with some software and it will continue to work without upgrades. If there is something in the upgrade you want or need bad enough then pay for the upgrade. Or wait and buy a new Flex with new software at some future date.

Craig Williams

Best comment so far.

Joe N3HEE

Very true.  And lets face it, this technology is moving at a very rapid pace, Flex will inevitably come out with a new or updated hardware platform within the next 5 years.  

Dave

They have already discounted and added new hardware 6xxx series.  The 6300/6500 are discontinued but still are eligible for updates. Of course the addition of the 6400/6600 (M).  

EA4AYW

Good morning to everybody.
this agreement to pay $ 200 plus taxes, remember it. It may suit the American market.
but not to Spanish.
here in Spain the software costs € 242 which is not $ 200.
It is a high price for these updates.
and more taking into account and we must remember, flex radios do not give them away, they charge an exaggerated price for the 4 components that it has.
I understand that you get a lot of money for old equipment, because you had much more electronics inside.
But the costs of an SDR are much cheaper than a conventional radio.
Remember that the most important thing in our Flex is the software, and not the hardware.
and to some extent I understand that they can charge for the software.
But...
They charge a lot for the hardware, and they charge a lot for the software.
It is true that the Flex market is not that of the radio amateurs, but the military, but I do not agree that each version costs $ 200 plus taxes.
and that these versions leave almost less than 1 year apart.
adding **** that for many users, are not necessary.

Remember also, that you are making us pay for errors that occur in programming and that we report to solve and improve.
That is to say that we give them the ideas and they charge us for it.
Which should be the other way around.

It is true that we are not obliged to a certain extent to have to move to a new version, as long as flex solves the programming crashes they have.
and I say this because a very basic thing that is the VOX, it was working properly in versions 1.xxxxx and in version 2.x that has stopped working.
among many things.
I mean we paid $ 200 more taxes for things already solved and damaged in the version that they have charged us.
and further away from solving it, now they go and they take the v3.x
This is unfortunate.

Also, every $ 200 plus taxes that are paid for the flex, this will be constantly devalued if you want to sell it secondhand.
I have a Flex6500, but if this continues, I will be forced to exchange it for the RUSSIAN SDR, (Sun SDR)

It is true that the new versions of the flex 6400m and 6600m seem to look good, until you have one of them.
I do not know if it was the 6400 exhibition that I had the opportunity to play with, but the aesthetics leaves much to be desired.
and the screen when pressed pressed down from its position.
I already say that I do not know if it will be a defect, or that the unit was damaged.
When the cluster was activated, and the data flow was interrupted, the display would go stumbling and would not flow.
leaves a lot to be desired the new flex line for my point of view.

By this I mean that the flex directive, instead of wanting to earn a lot of money at our expense, to think a little about the radio amateurs that are not rich and that paying for a flex is an effort, when more having to pay for errors of programming that are not corrected.
and deceive us with something new that in the case of version 3, is a ****, since this should not be limited from the first versions.

Ken Hansen

From where I sit in America, the difference between $200 and €242 looks a lot like cost plus VAT, and that added cost is because of local politics & gov't policies, nothing Flex has any control over.

Mike VE3CKO

Complain about the amount or the business model, it still all boils down to whether it is worth it to your station to upgrade or not. If your budget can't do it, that's ok because it is optional. Complaining about an optional $200 upgrade doesn't make sense to me, Icom is not offering me any upgrade for my 7600 still the same dumb radio that is loosing it's monetary value and it's value to my station, more and more every day. Since I don't make sense sometimes, I'll put on my complaining hat, let's see where this goes..

Today's Bank of Canada exchange rate on $200 US is $268.58 then we have HST of 13%, so the upgrade hits me at $303.50 Canadian dollars. 303 is a bigger number than 242 so I must getting ripped off. more than Spanish market right? Oh my, is there some radio amateur charity foundation out there to help me pay for my radio and my costly software upgrade? Also let me know if there is a charity fund for not so rich people so I can buy some golf clubs and pay for course fees, oh yeah. I use to have a boat, and had to sell it, Is there a charity to help me fund a new boat, come on.

Taking off that hat, sounds kinda silly doesn't it. I don't drink (too heavily), I don't smoke, cigarettes are very expensive here in Canada and I have family members spending well over $400 a month just smoking alone. That is over $5000 a year, that is just plain crazy I tell them. Quit smoking, reward yourself, go on a nice vacation with that money. So I think I can spend $303 dollars every couple years to upgrade my radio.

Ken Hansen

€242 = $272 US, so in Spain it is about 36% higher than US. Spain 'enjoys' a 21% VAT, so $200 US price + 21% Spain VAT = €215 euros. You are upset about €27 euros over the US price? I suspect that 13.5% premium you pay in Spain has to do with conversion fees to turn your euro-bucks into greenbacks to pay bills in the US.

Mark NS9N

I am really amazed that this forum has come to this level. When you purchased your Flex Radio, if you read alll the information available, you knew what you were buying into. In the end, if you don’t like the radio or the company’s policies, sell it and move on. Sorry but I have owned both a 6500, 6600, and a Maestro. All have been great products but when I did not need the Maestro, I sold it. Same for the 6500. Point is, if you don’t like something you have purchased, sell it . Life it too short to read ongoing blogs about what people like and don’t like and how someone wants to change how a company works. If you don’t like your Flex radio sell it and buy something you think you will like better. But let’s get this forum back to helping solve technical issues and learning from others.

KC2QMA_John

1.There are NO annual software fees.

2.You can upgrade at any time and even skip over versions and still only pay $199 usd.

3. As Mark said “If you don’t like your Flex radio sell it and buy something you think you will like better”

4. With a Flexradio the radio just keeps getting better. In fact if you own one of the older radio that run PowerSDR the software is still getting update years after the radios have been discontinued. You cant say that about any of the traditional radios. Even the Icom IC7300 will only get a few Bug fixes/Updates and then that's it.

I believe $199 is a very fair price to pay for State Of The Art software that continues to be developed and improved.

Because the title of the this thread is not accurate as there are NO annual costs, I vote to close this thread.

Bill -VA3WTB

It is too bad that you can't find anything good to say about Flex products. Much of what you said is simply incorrect and misinformed. I wish I had the energy to correct them one by one but there are to many of them.

You mentioned your interested in Sun SDR? I just checked them out,,wow $6.999.00 US for the cheap one, and that's much more here in Canada. Another 35% And you think Flex is expensive?

Michael Coslo

One of the things I have always wondered about is the experience of people who may have years of operating legacy radios, them moving to the Flex Platform. 

The concept of buying a radio with baked in features, versus one that is flexible and can be upgraded or modified easily is probably shocking to many people.

But Flex's model of incremental updates, followed by major for pay ones is about as good a model as I can think of. Free lifetime updates doesn't work. Subscription models that brick your radio if you stop paying don't work. 

And 200 dollars every couple years really is chump change. It is a sensible price for the market Flex intends to serve. 

There are many radios out there, and if a person is really strapped for money, a couple hundred dollars at a Hamfest can pick you up a legacy radio that will never cost a cent more. 

Craig Williams

I want an airplane.

Mark_WS7M

Craig.  I want one too.  Specifically a CirrusJet or Eclipse EA550!  Still waiting for a call that it's at the airport waiting for me to take possession!

Michael Coslo

And I see that version 3 software  still doesn't include my demand for a built in smoker so I can cook a Brisket in it! 

KC2QMA_John

I have been saying for years how great it would be to have a built in Coffee maker in my radio.

Bill -VA3WTB

The idea of Flex charging for for major up grade makes them accountable. They are charged with keeping everything up to date, and It is up to Flex to invent features that will sell.

If all the major up grades were free, then Flex could simply do an upgrade when ever and include almost anything to very little, because it's free.

I have considered all the software radios on the market to day and have looked at the updates they have had to date. Some are open source and some are locked to a company, like SSDR. This includes Anan, Icom, Sun SDR, and others. In this group there has been no cost to the customer, but upgrades are not many if any. Anan has the most updates, but they have been over a year getting the latest version working correctly, and still working on it. By the way, Anan does not invest in software, they don't have any.  It is a group working on software, nothing to do with Anan. They are using PSDR created by Gerald and have since modified the software a lot.

But back to the point, Flex has much credibility because of the charge for major upgrades, they are accountable to us, customers. They must create updates to improve the radio performance and to make the radio more fun to use.

That is what having to pay for upgrades does.

Ken Hansen

Wait! Do you mean when folks say their radio comes from a smoker, they mean a meat smoker?!?! THAT explains the discoloration and smell... now I get it.

Ken Hansen

Coffee maker makes sense, my computer has a cup holder!

Ken - NM9P

Flex began with a $199/yr maintenance fee and nixed that within the first year in favor of the current system. I seriously doubt they will go back to an annual fee. If I had been on the old plan, I would have paid an additional $800 by now. As it is, I have upgraded one time to V.2 and as an Alpha Tester have paid for V.3-Alpha. ... half of what the old system would have been. In addition, under the current system, upgrades are totally optional. If you skip one, or two, or more upgrades, the next one only costs $199. No retrograde fees are added. In my book that is a great deal. Considering the original price of my 6500, it has been well worth the cost.

Ken Hansen

Curious, if I had a R1 license for my radio and skipped R2 of SSDR, if I choose to upgrade to R3 of SSDR, I get all the R2 upgrades as well, right?