Smartsdr 4.0.1 basic sliders missing

KA9CFD

I have the Flex 6500 and just installed the new Smartsdr 4.0.1 basic. I have noticed the sliders to adjust the NR, NB and APF for CW are now missing from the DSP drop down menu for a slice. I dont understand why Flex would remove these sliders that a user could adjust to their own taste. Oddly, it seems the NR is adjustable if you right click on the NR button when lit but there is no indication of where its set at with no slider. This seems like a step backwards rather than a "feature".

I dont plan to pay for a subscription for this radio where the so called features are not available for it.

Jay KA9CFD

Erik Carling EI4KF

I must confess that I need some explanation regarding this change.

In 4.0.1, NR does seem to work and be just about the same in performance as in V3.

NB does nothing at all. I can only guess that any benefit is dependent on the noise environment and mine may simply not suit it. But in V3 I could adjust it and derive some improvement in noise. Now not so.

However, details about this change are limited from what I have seen. Is there more info somewhere?

johnn1jm

On my 8600 and 8400 all the new noise mitigation buttons are grayed out and no adjustment sliders. On the 8600 the new noise floor adjustment is grayed out.

WNB looks ok but don't know yet if it is better than the old.

g4ivv

I'm very concerned about the CW APF level adjustment slider no longer being available. The amount of APF required isn't constant, I often adjust it when listening to weak signals depending upon band & signal conditions. I did raise a support ticket but it got closed, saying that the sliders have not been implemented in 4.0.1 and that no decision has been made on returning them.

 

g7soz

I'm glad its not just me! I'm having a **** moment as to-date, the great thing about Flex/SmartSDR has been the ability to customise the DSP using the sliders.

This is a real step backwards.

I now appear to have an inflexible, enshittified radio - it defeats the whole point!

Is this a sign of things to come?

Trucker

This to me is counter productive not allowing users to adjust levels and other parameters for different functions to work optimally in their local environment and conditions. Why Flex Radio would choose to dumb down the different functions by taking away adjustments makes absolutely no sense to me. If they are that concerned that giving the users more control over different function's settings, they can easily add a reset to default settings button that even I would understand I need to click on if I messed things up. Maybe, they are afraid having adjustments that individual users can access for different functions would cause more requests for help. That's why I suggest a reset to default settings button some time ago to Flex Radio's CTO. Unfortunately, it appears that suggestion was ignored.

Flex Radio, fix this huge Mistake.

James

WD5GWY

Dan Trainor

The good thing is they have 30 days to place the slider back. To note, from what I understand, the Mac version is not taking out the sliders, for obvious reasons - as it would make absolutely no sense, I don't operate any Windows clients. Only Mac and iOS, so I am good. Dan WA1QZX

Trucker

Where do you see that they have 30 days to put the sliders back?

James

WD5GWY

Dan Trainor

Isn't it 30 days for the feedback window? Early 30 day adopters. Early adopter feedback. Wouldn't they cite the issue and Flex fixes it? Maybe I have it wrong how it works.

johnn1jm

I wonder how the Mac version will implement the new noise reduction mitigation items. And will it have the noise floor level adjustment. There was an update to the Mac version today aimed at the 4.01 update.

Trucker

It's hard to say given the responses I have already seen if they will add sliders back if the Early Access subscribers request that they put things like this back. If there aren't many people subscribing to Early Access, then only a small percentage of the users of SmartSDR will have any input on feature requests and changes that need to be made. In some ways, I don't think that is a good thing. Initially, I was excited about all of the new features being added to version 4.x. But, when it became apparent to me that they were dumbing down control over different function's, that bothers me. Personally, I want more control, not less.

James

WD5GWY

Geoff AB6BT

I would assume that in previous versions the sliders controlled only one parameter.

If the new algorithms use multiple parameters as inputs to the necessary calculations for a particular fumction, how many sliders would there need to be?

Having 2, 3, or 5 sliders per function might end up being counterproductive…

Only my 2¢ worth.

Erik Carling EI4KF

In my opinion, because everyone has their own receive environment with different types of noise and noise levels, it is not about sliders and how many or even if there are any at all but it is about whether the function works to improve receive. For me, and I grant you this may not be typical, APF and NB are abject failures in V4. NR on the other hand is rather good, at least as good as V3.

Trucker

Geoff, that is exactly why I suggested to Flex Radio developers a while back that they include an advanced tab in settings that would allow users to adjust different settings for each DSP functions. Include some understandable explanation of what each parameter does in the User's Manual and to Tool tips as well. Then, have a button to return things to default settings should the user mess things up. And there could even be a checkbox to allow access to the Advanced Settings menu Tab. Being able to customize settings to one's local environment would be a good thing. Having to use default settings that some developer created in a different environment than your own is not an ideal solution.

James

WD5GWY

Geoff AB6BT

Certainly so.

For example,in my environment I have no impulse noise so I've never actually used the NB.

Seb

I want those sliders back. I purchased a high-end radio, and I anticipated at the very least the ability to control my radio based on the content I hear on the airwaves.

ka9ees

I want the sliders back too.

Erik Carling EI4KF

I would not despair just yet. Sliders are no good if the function does not work. I think it is best to wait the 30 days until the full feature is granted. Dave WB1S who has early access reports "Running SmartSDR 4.01 with Early Access. The Noise reduction now has several switchable algorithms including an AI based one. They really work."

If the same can eventually be said of NB, APF, etc then we are judging too soon. More reports from the early access adopters would be useful.

g4ivv

Hello Mike,

We're not just talking about the noise reduction. The slider has been removed from the CW Audio Peaking Filter (the release notes only discuss improvements to NR). I have been using the APF for a couple of hours today with 4.0.1 and it sounds like it is simply fixed at an arbitary value. The APF function needs to be adjusted as signal and band conditions vary and is an important tool for copying weak CW signals.

Jonathan

Mike-VA3MW

Hi Jonathan

If you are on the EA program, you will get an link to provide feedback in the next few days.

Mike

W4AFK Bruno

I just updated two 6400's to 4.0.1 Basic and it went without any problems.

However, when I use the software, I am seeing the same issue as others regarding the missing sliders. Right-clicking on NR, NB, or ANF doesn't bring up anything.

I always played with these settings depending on the noise level or signal level I wanted to notch, and it worked for me. Now with the fixed settings, it "seems" to me that they went backwards. Yes, I know, more complex algorithms are more complicated to adjust, but a simple top level slider setting should return.

Any plans to return them the "Basic"? … or will that require paying for the "+" version? (I hope not)

K9YK

The sliders for NR, NB, and ANF are still in place in the Mac and iOS versions of SSDR. Was easy to verify that the slider for NR in the Mac/iOS versions is still working and controlling the depth of the DSP processing. So the capability still exists in the radio, Flex has just removed the controls in the Windows version of SmartSDR. Why would the Flex team do this? Very disappointed.

John KB4DU

So much for testing at Flex. Maybe regression is too hard a word.

VE7FM

Maybe the Flex team doesn't actually use the features they implement? :)

Please bring back the sliders.

Erik Carling EI4KF

I note that user control of NR, NB and APF is still available using the API, as K9YK already has noted. For example using Stream Deck, I can increment and decrement all the levels as if there were sliders. Stream Deck will also toggle on/off and hence it far more convenient anyway instead of having to open the DSP panel in SSDR. Therefore, just as K9YK mentioned, level control is still present but Flex have taken away the control from users of the software.

Jerry

The Update from 3.10.15 to 4.01 went smoothly this morning but my 6600 will be rolled back to 3.10.15 and maybe back as far as 3.7.x because of this and other issues related to TGXL and PGXL integration.

George Moranian

Maybe it's going to be part of the subscription to get them back. 🤣

Dan Trainor

Is there a version in the 3.9.x range that has high stability. I appears 3.10.x versions are a bit shaky. What I think I will do is move to the most stable 3.9.x-3.10.x version and stay there. I use series 6000 series radios and looking at these v4.x problems, I don't think I want the stress of all that. Might be a more calm experience to just land and stick to a nice stable version and stay there.

Erik Carling EI4KF

3.9.19

Dan Trainor

OK, 3.9.19 - Thank You Erik. I will land and stick on 3.9.19 for the remainder of the life of these series 6000 radios I have. Very Good. 73 Dan WA1QZX

K9YK

Looking at what comes out of the API when subscribed to slice updates, you can see the nr_level setting still exists, and there's also a level setting for the new NRL noise reduction (nrl_level), plus a host of other parameters. So, it's not like these things couldn't be adjusted if Flex brought the sliders back.

S1CFDD985|slice 0 nr=1 nr_level=2 nr_wlen=256 nr_delay=25 nr_adapt_mode=0 nr_isdft_mode=1 nrl=0 nrl_level=50 nrl_filter_size=128 nrl_delay=16 nrl_leakage_level=50 nrf=0 nrf_winc=256 nrf_wlen=2048