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OFF you go - or not?

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OH2BUA
OH2BUA Member ✭✭
Hi,

Is it so that proper, clean, standard, nice POWER OFF -command does not exist even through API?

(6600. I'm aware of solutions based on external hardware.)

73, Jukka
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Best Answer

  • Trucker
    Trucker Member ✭✭✭
    Answer ✓
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    As far as I know, there is no command in the Flex API to power the radio on or off.

    James

    WD5GWY

Answers

  • OH2BUA
    OH2BUA Member ✭✭
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    Tnx James - even though I was afraid that is the case.
  • Mike-VA3MW
    Mike-VA3MW Administrator, FlexRadio Employee, Community Manager, Super Elmer, Moderator admin
    edited June 11
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    You can reboot it via the API, but you can't power it off (or on).

    If you power it off, then the API is not listening, so there is no way to power it on.

    That is why the power off/on is on the RCA connector on the back of the radio. It must be a mechanical exercise so to speak.

    What is it your are hoping to achieve?

  • David Decoons, wo2x
    David Decoons, wo2x Member, Super Elmer Moderator
    Options

    Node Red to control relay for radio on/off


    73 Dave wo2x

  • OH2BUA
    OH2BUA Member ✭✭
    edited June 12
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    Tnx Mike,

    > What is it your are hoping to achieve?

    I operate remote-only. I have that RCA-shortcut in place.

    Currently I brutally cut out AC power by using a http-driven remote power controller. (Boot-up works when restoring power.)

    It hurts me every time when I do that.

    Yep, I'm going make a solution for Proper power OFF.

    I'm just checking carefully that there isn't any software-only solution for that purpose.

    PowerSDR document from 2014 describes CAT ZZPS command for that purpose. Gud ol' times :)

    73, Jukka
  • Johan SE3X
    Johan SE3X Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 12
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    Can't see a problem doing it like you do Jukka. I leave DC on for two to three minutes after having shut down my 6700 with the RCA connection. Just to give the radio and it's PIC's time to shutdown internally properly. Then I cut AC to my power supply.

    If there are anyone knowing any reason this shouldn't be good, I'm very interested in knowing. I have done it like this for years.

    73, Johan

  • OH2BUA
    OH2BUA Member ✭✭
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    Johan,

    my use case is remote-only, and I don't have separate remote control for that RCA-connector (yet). So currently my only way to power OFF the rig is to cut out power input, violently.

    73, Jukka
  • Johan SE3X
    Johan SE3X Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 12
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    OK Jukka, maybe I was unclear. But I have a webswitch so I can do this regardless if at home or remote. I strongly suggest you implement remote switching both for the RCA ON/STBY, as well as for remote PTT. This is very important if you ever would have to update the radio and/or SmartLink. Upgrading/updating without having a remote PTT, you are ****.

    I use a KMTronic LAN Ethernet IP 8 channels WEB Relay board BOX https://www.kmtronic.com/lan-ethernet-ip-8-channels-web-relay-board.html


    Cutting power violently is really bad practice. There are so called PIC's, Micro controllers in your radio and they need time after you have switched of the radio to shut down properly. If you cut incoming power they just stop and that may mess upp a lot of things inside the radio and the radios firmware. This goes of course also when you sit by the radio and switch it of on your radios frontpanel. Wait two to three minutes (at least) before switching off your PS and DC power.

    GL, 73, Johan



  • Mike-VA3MW
    Mike-VA3MW Administrator, FlexRadio Employee, Community Manager, Super Elmer, Moderator admin
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    When the radio was designed, this was pretty well thought out.

    The RCA connector connects to a device that is responsible for the power control. It does all its magic to power up and down the radio. I think it consumes about 8 watts of power.

    Thanks to so many hundreds of devices available online from the IoT world, a very basic switch will turn the radio on and off cleanly. Yes, there is a bit of power consumed by the power PIC, but it is no different than any TV, PC or Monitor you use today. None of them have physical switches that actually turn off all the power to the device. This seems to be the norm in this industry.

    If you short the plug, as you have done, you are doing a crash shutdown of the radio. This likely won’t hurt anything since we write so little data to the onboard file system. But, as someone who has worked on computers my whole life (my first computer was built in 1958 and I was working for IBM and doing support on that computer, AN/FSQ7), computers love to be shut down cleanly. :)

    The worst case I can think of is that somehow you corrupt the file system on the radio and when you reboot it, it might take longer to start up as the OS does file system maintenance.

    I do know we have not stressed tested a radio by pulling power on it a few hundred times. Nor have we tracked SD card failures, which are now not an issue, to customers pulling DC power.

    I am just sharing what I know and I like to share what I learned as an operator and tie it to what I know about the internals of the radio operation. I am pretty lucky in that regard.

    You are more than welcome to do what works for you of course.

    73

  • Johan SE3X
    Johan SE3X Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 12
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    Now I'm really confused? Using the remote off via the RCA connector is like a crash shutdown?? I thought that was the correct way to power off the radio?

    You write ""If you short the plug, as you have done, you are doing a crash shutdown of the radio."" Do you mean the RCA plug?  Or do you actually mean shutting AC to the PS off?

    English is not my first language Mike. Sorry but that was confusing!

    73, Johan

    Ps. Have I been doing the wrong shutdown procedure for years?

  • Mike-VA3MW
    Mike-VA3MW Administrator, FlexRadio Employee, Community Manager, Super Elmer, Moderator admin
    edited June 12
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    No, not at all. It is a clean shutdown.

    I should have added more words: If you leave the plug shorted and then pull DC power you crash the system.

    When you apply DC power with a shorted plug and Remote Enabled turned on, the radio will start up.

    Does that make sense?

  • Johan SE3X
    Johan SE3X Member ✭✭✭
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    Tnx Mike, yes it makes sense. I will continue the way I have done shut down in the paste

  • OH2BUA
    OH2BUA Member ✭✭
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    Ok ok Mike!

    Power consumption of the needed gadget is not a problem. I'm going to do it that way if it is the only way... I just liked to carefully check if that is doable without extra HW. It's much much more neat to do things by SW if they are doable by SW - than adding a gadget needing to be powered itself and eating one ethernet-port.

    (BTW, I can shutdown my Intel NUC Win11 minipc cleanly from UI - and it boots up nicely after remotely controlled hard power-off/on. I can say 'shutdown -h now' to my RasPis, and they'll boot up after remotely controlled hard power-off/on. THAT is the action I hope also to be available in my 6600.)

    Ok I'm doing the HW solution for the RCA-plug... a little bit sorry that it seems to be needed.

    I'm also a kind of IT-oldtimer... our national broadcaster for sure is going to be happy as they get rid of me after just one year from now. A full-time ham then.. great :)

    (I can't resist of touting this: I have a DIY automation which cuts out power from my 6600 and disconnects antennas when the lightning strikes closer than 10 kilometers (6.2 miles) from my site. And returns after two hours. It is based on real-time open data from Finnish Meteorological Institute.)

    73, Jukka

  • Mike-VA3MW
    Mike-VA3MW Administrator, FlexRadio Employee, Community Manager, Super Elmer, Moderator admin
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    Hi Jukka

    All I can do is share how the designers came up with a solution to a problem. That doesn't mean it is the only solution as your priorities might be different.

    Your NUC and Radio do actually work the same way, don't they? They both have some sort of small power monitoring control device. Ah, you mean you can't send an API command to shutdown. I guess that makes sense. I have passed it on to engineering.

    Can you share your antenna disconnect solution? I would love to see it.

    73

  • OH2BUA
    OH2BUA Member ✭✭
    Options

    Hi agn.

    About NUC minipc (Win11): In BIOS it is configured "After power break - boot up". I can (remotely) order a standard Shutdown in Win UI. NUC goes fully down and cold. After that, when I make a short (or long) AC/DC (respect) external power off/on sequence - it beautifully boots up. That is what I'd like to be same way with my rig. That same procedure works with RasPi/linux.

    ====

    Regarding the lightning-thing. Sorry I haven't drawn a diagram...

    We are lucky in here to have a classy real-time taxpayer-funded open meteo data. Every lightning strike is reported in a minute.

    Here is a very simplified model how it can be triggered (I actually use a more complex circular-calculation model.)

    curl "https://opendata.fmi.fi/wfs?request=GetFeature&storedquery_id=GetDataSetById&datasetid=1000560" 2>nul | grep -qE "(^60.9.... 25.9.... |^61.0.... 25.9.... |^60.9.... 26.[0-2].... |^61.0.... 26.[0-2].... )" && echo "Seems to be a thunder, ol' man."

    My grid locator is KP30bx. That thing reacts if a strike takes place within a square box of about 30x30 kilometers (20 miles) around my QTH.

    I run that every 5 minutes around the clock. It controls NETIO4 4-channel power controller and Paradan Dual Antenna Disconnector. (Ok, they are only about 3 millimeter gap devices, but that is a different thing.)

    73, Jukka

  • David Decoons, wo2x
    David Decoons, wo2x Member, Super Elmer Moderator
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    here in the U.S. there are lightning strike sites. You can get an API key and using Node Red both announce when you have a strike within a certain (user definable) radius and based on that data initiate an orderly shutdown of equipment including antenna disconnects like the Paradin System unit.

    73 Dave wo2x

  • OH2BUA
    OH2BUA Member ✭✭
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    Ok Dave,

    I haven't paid attention to Node-RED-hamradio yet, but I'm going to check out if there's some beef for me.

    Most likely there is.

    73, Jukka

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