Popping on All Flex radios.

Tom Teague

I talk with a group of Flex owners every day. We all are having a problem with intermittent popping in the TX and RX Audio. Non-Flex operators can hear it from all of us. It is doing it in all modes SSB, AM, Digital...

RESTARTING / REBOOTING WILL NOT FIX IT!!!

This problem started a while back and has been getting worse in the past few weeks.

If you're having the same problem, let us know.

I have two FLEX radios, the 6600 and the 6600M.  It is doing it on both radios. Even when I run off the face of the radio on the M model it does it, so it is not a computer problem.

Ha Gei

As far as i heard, or read in other threads, this seems to be related to the current Server issues. I will probably give it a try tonight. I did not like to talk last time due to mid heavy covid infection. Since about Feb. I never get anything else than "Perfect Audio" reports , so i also curious on this.

There was a similar issue with Audio distortions some month long from mid 22 to early 23 and this dissapeared after an update. Cant remeber what version issued , and which cured.

Harry DL9NDW

Tom Teague

We all just did the newest update v3.5.9 and it seems to have fixed it for now???

Trucker

Tom, are you and the other people you are talking about, all using SmartLink? Or, is the popping that you were hearing on direct ,local connections to your radio? I have heard popping occasionally on my 6600M. But, I put it off to something local cycling on and off.

James

WD5GWY

FRED W9TB

The popping is back !

Tom Teague

SmartLink is running whether you are logged in or not it is always looking for a connection so that may be the problem. We have unplugged the radio from the network and just ran the 6600M off the face of the radio and it still is doing the popping. So SmartLink looks like it may be the culprit.

ka1jy

Oh yeah - The popping is back. It is better than during this recent meltdown but it is still there. If this connection to the smartlink servers is exacerbating this audio popping failure it would seem reasonable to publish a version of smartSDR that does not make any connection to smartlink. If I am not operating remote what reason (other than updates) could there be for ANY connection to smartlink? It seems rather odd to me that my radio should become essentially useless or at best unreliable because of an internet connection that might be marginal for reasons beyond the server owner or my control. It is not unrealistic to expect internet path failures. Yeah so historically the net has been pretty reliable but given the current political climate that could easily change.

K5XH

I have been noticing this popping as well. It has become very noticeable after upgrading to 2.10.0. Same symptoms as reported by the OP in this tread. Rebooting everything does not help. Other stations tell me it sounds like a loose microphone cable. I also notice it on FT8 transmit and receive. On transmit it causes a short spike in output power.

My station consists of 6600, PGXL, TGXL, and AGXL. All software is current except I haven't tried 10.1 yet. I do not use Smartlink.

Flex- Once you get the Smartlink issues resolved Please look into this popping issue. After running a local net this weekend I am seriously thinking about dragging my old FT1000 out of the closet and using it! (Don't really want to do this, hi).

While you are at it, please fix the VOX function. Mine hasn't ever worked like it should.

73, Mark K5XH

WX7Y

Mark from what I understand is that 2.10.1 and 3.5.9 are NOT just for SmartLink, it is a security update and the Radio try's to communicate with the server to check these security keys and if it has no response it try's over and over again contributing to the pop's.

Probably the only way to circumvent this is to have NO way that the radio can get to the internet by unplugging it from your router/switch and Plug it directly into a NONE used Ethernet Port on your computer so just that computer can communicate to it and the computer can still talk to it.

N7DK Dave

Greetings - I run only FT8 now and I've seen the popping (I call hiccupping) on my Flex 6400. See attached spectrum picture where the popping shows up as a wide spectrum burst. I thought there might be an intermittent connection in my antenna/transmission lines, but this happens even transmitting into a dummy load.

FT8 is resilient, and I am still making contacts, but I don't like running the radio if it's generating this kind of noise across the band!

I'm watching this thread closely hoping for some tips to fixing this problem!

Many thanks to anyone who can supply more info ...

73 to all -- Dave, N7DK, david@leeper.com

K5XH

Thanks Bret,

Well, not using Smartlink so I don't think that is causing the popping. No changes made to the computer (W10 Pro) except putting 2.10.0 on. I found a link to a MS site describing how to check for DPCs and I'll try that this weekend.

73, Mark K5XH

And I should mention that my popping issue occurs with just the radio - no Smartlink and no DAX in the mix.

Tom Teague

Popping still comes and goes:

It would be too long if I were to list every fix I have tried.

The final fix has to come from FlexRadio.

Trucker

Have any of you disconnected from the internet and attached your radio to a dummy load? If the popping still occurs, then there is a software problem. If you reattach your antenna ( still no internet connection) and the popping returns, then the issue isn't the radio or SmartSDR trying to phone home. There are many things that could be the source of the problem. One thing that occurred to me is the time of year. Thunderstorms with lots of lightning during Spring and Summer create lots of noise (Static crashes ) and are easily seen on a Waterfall display and heard as popping in the audio. The noise changes in intensity depending on frequency. The lower bands show the effects much more readily than the upper bands. Thunderstorms can be thousands of miles away and still produce the effects we can hear and see, on the waterfall. Once the season changes and things settle down, it's quite possible that the popping issue will settle down as well.

These are just some thoughts that occurred to me. It doesn't mean I absolutely think that Thunderstorms are the source of what many are hearing and seeing. But, it is something to think about. Try the suggested tests and see if the problem goes away. If it doesn't, open a Help Desk ticket and bring the problem to Flex Radio's attention. The Community is a good place to discuss different things. But, I believe issues are more likely to be addressed if Flex Radio is informed directly instead of here in the Community.

James

WD5GWY

Lionel

I've been following this thread and I've never experienced the popping on any band or mode reported by posters. Maybe its the way I'm set up.

1. very fast W11 with 12th gen I5, 16G DDR4, 1T M2 SSD - DPC's - never felt the need to check, using 8-10% of CPU.
2. Direct ethernet to computer - no network connection to 6400 - link is solid green.
3. Latest SSDR 3.5.9
4. Mostly CW op QSK

Pretty bare bones.

Right now I'm hearing what could be called popping but its lightning and goes away without antenna.

I have to believe the bare bones config has been tried and others still have the popping, maybe.

Mike-VA3MW

All

If you have lever created a SmartLink login for your radio, you need to be at 2.10.1 or 3.5.9 and that should resolve your issue.

Or, you can log your radio out of SmartLink. You will need to be able to a PTT to actually do the logout. That will stop the radio from reporting its IP address and ports to the SmartLink server.

73

Jeff_W4DD

A few clarifications on Clicking (Tx) and Popping (Rx).

The Flex radio registers with the SmartLink server. It does not matter if you have the radio currently registered or have never had it registered. Under normal operation, there is a 3 packet exchange every 30 seconds between the radio and the SmartLink server. The packet exchange can be viewed with Wireshark. This exchange includes the IP of the Flex radio. (You can contact me off-net if you want the set-up details.)

The “Radio IP registration always active” was also confirmed by Flex. Ticket SMART-9754 will address this issue and there is the intent to provide an option where the radio would not try to register. Users who want to use their radio only in local mode could use this, minimizing complexity and reducing SmartLink traffic. I think this option would be a good enhancement and benefit both local users (simplicity) and remote users (less SmartLink traffic).

(FYI: My mic audio and speaker audio go directly in/out of the back of the radio and do not travel over my local network.)

Radio on a release prior to v3.5.9:

If your radio is NOT running v3.5.9 and tries to register with SmartLink (v3.5.9), a long exchange of roughly 21 packets takes place every 5 seconds associated with attempted registration. About half the time this caused Rx audio popping on my 6600. I usually have to turn up the volume to hear it. Additionally, another group of 25 packet exchanges (many RST’s) seems to occur every 50 seconds. This exchange does not seem to cause any Rx audio issues.

During the initial SmartLink issue (Sept 4 and 5) when the security certificate had expired, there was extensive TX audio clicking on SSB. We had this on multiple Flex radios and I also received similar reports from other users. I also observed this behavior in the fall of 2022 when there was a problem with SmartLink. Disconnecting from the Internet caused it to immediately cease. I suspect CW and FT8 would also have had issues.

Radio on v3.5.9:

If your radio is on v3.5.9, a simple exchange of 3 packets takes place every 30 seconds. No Rx popping is observed. However, I have randomly seen an exchange of 18 packets occurring every 10 seconds. When this happens, the Rx popping starts.  Perhaps this is related to Server congestion as it seems to be occurring less frequently.

I suggest users do one of the following:

1.      Upgrade to v3.5.9 so a valid certificate exchange can take place.

2.       If you prefer to stay on an older version, connect the radio to your PC with a direct cable between the PC and the radio. When connecting this way, the radio will not attempt to connect to SmartLink. I have not observed Tx Clicking or Rx popping in this configuration where the radio does not have connectivity to the Internet.  When I have problems, I drop back to this configuration and my Tx and RX issues immediately stop.

Erik Carling EI4KF

You say "It does not matter if you have the radio currently registered or have never had it registered. Under normal operation, there is a 3 packet exchange every 30 seconds between the radio and the SmartLink server."

Flex says (Mike VA3MW) "...you can log your radio out of SmartLink... That will stop the radio from reporting its IP address and ports to the SmartLink server."

I am running Wireshark and do not see packet handshaking from my 6400M, either 3 per 30 secs or 18 per 10 secs. It is not registered with SmartLink and I am on 3.5.9 with internet.

Jeff_W4DD

Interesting Erik.

When I filter on the SmartLink IP (a 23. addr), I see the 3 packet sequence. Another user that has SmartLink sees the same 3 packet sequence. Although I had my radio reqistered at one time, I have deregistered it in SmartSDR (confirmed with the PTT) and the screen indicates radio is not registered.

What devise are you using to monitor the traffic for SmartLInk?

Erik Carling EI4KF

I am running Wireshark on my network so it sees the 6400M traffic which is only pings to the desktop computer and network gateway. I presume it periodically checks for internet. But it does not ping, poll or query anything external so cannot be handshaking with SmartLink. One difference here is that it has never been registered with SmartLink so one might wonder if 'deregistering' really isolates it.

Trucker

I have watched my 6600M using Wireshark and have only seen the radio ping the update server on startup. ( I don't use SmartLink) Afterwards, there is no activity outside my home network and then, only if I am running SmartSDR on a pc attached to my network. The only popping ( as some have reported) was atmospheric noise related to thunderstorms. I have disconnected my antenna and attached the coax to a dummy load. Again, no popping at all for hours at a time. I can disconnect the radio from my home network and run it standalone and still no popping or any indication that it is trying to connect to SmartLink or any outside network.

I believe that if you have registered to SmartLink, and not updated to the latest version of SmartSDR, that it will cause problems not only locally, but to the SmartLink Authentication servers. I updated to v3.5.9 simply to keep my radio up to date. ( and hopefully a hidden gem in the mix as well) But, overall, my experience has been positive with this update.

I believe it would help everyone if Flex Radio were to give a better explanation of how SmartLink and the radio's interact ( as well as the update servers) and how often the radio does attempt to check for updates and for SmartLink users, how often and when does the radio actually try to connect to the SmartLink server. In my way of thinking, SmartLink shouldn't be pinged by the radio until the user attempts a connection. ( logging in)

I can see the reason for the update ping on startup. But, anything else doesn't make sense to me.

James

WD5GWY

Erik Carling EI4KF

Yes I do see the startup ping but nothing else. I agree with everything you say James. But it also seems to me that whether the radio is handshaking with SmartLink or not, it should not malform the audio and adversely affect the operation of the radio. In this area, SSDR needs attention.

k0oks

We MUST be given an option to 100% disable SmartLink. For those of us who run locally only (has to be most users) there should be ZERO contact with Flex (other than perhaps an update check, which we should be able to disable as well).

There is absolutely no need for the radio to phone home EVER if operated locally. This became especially evident when this network issue (the expired cert) causes issues with radios used only locally. This is a design flaw that is simple rectify by disable any and all remote contact for radios used locally.

Trucker

I must be in the minority. My 6600M on my home network has never been effected by the SmartLink outage. ( I don't do remote operation) I have watched the radio ping the Update Server, once on startup, using Wireshark. After the initial ping checking for a software update, nothing more is sent, except when I am running SmartSDR on my pc over my home network. And then, it's only data passing between the radio and the pc that SmartSDR is running on. Nothing passing outside my network.

James

WD5GWY

Mike-VA3MW

@k0oks You can do this by logging out of SmartLink. You can do this from the radio chooser window. That gives you the result you are asking about. That option has always been available.

You only need to be logged into SmartLink when you use your radio remotely. If you never do any remote operating, then there is no requirement to ever log in. It is entirely up to the operator.

After Tuesday when the server upgrade happens, it won't be an issue. In case you missed that posting, you can find it at the top of the community list.

Also, make sure you are at V3.5.9 or V2.10.1.

There is more work being done on this as well.

k0oks

Thanks for the reply @Mike-VA3MW .

So if I log out on the front screen of the 6600M I will never be affected by Smart Link outages or failures-to-renew-certs ever again? The radio will never need to contact Flex to function forever ? And since even Fortune 500 companies like Microsoft and Oracle have been int he news for failing to renew certs I would certainly have to ASSUME that at some point it will happen again. I just want to be sure that the programmers have tested this with failed certs and made sure they no longer cause problems for local users. Obviously they will cause problems for remote users, but network issues shouldn't affect local use in any way.

That is what I am looking for. It should work like it does as of the date of last update without ever having an internet connection again, with no slow-downs or popping because it can't contact Flex.

I am on 3.5.9 as of the day after it came out.

Trucker

You can run your 6600M completely standalone without any internet connection at all.

You can even connect it to a local network with no internet connection and it will function without any problems. The radio does not depend on having an internet connection. If it tries to ping the update server and doesn't get a response or doesn't detect a connection to the internet, it will bypass the check for updates and continue to bootup and operate without any problems. I know guys who only connect their 6000 series radios to the internet when someone tells them there's a new version of SmartSDR out.

James

WD5GWY

WX7Y

BUT a lot of us couldn't log into SmartLink to SIGN OUT so Mikes suggestion just DID NOT WORK for many of us! This is why so many people complained about it and are still having issues if there not using the Latest SmartSDR version for one reason or the other, even now to fix the issue Flex'ers have to load the latest version of SmartSDR, Sign out of SmartLink and then change back to the version of SmardSDR that worked for them.

I have to agree, there needs to be a way to sign out of SmartLink WITH OUT having to log into SmartLink to Log my Radio out of SmartLink, Pretty **** way to do this the way it is now.

Trucker

If you update to the latest version of SmartSDR and use SmartLink, it will work. Updating to the latest version and then rolling back to a previous version puts you right back to having problems with SmartLink as the Certificates on the radio and the SmartLink Authentication servers no longer match. You have to use the latest version of SmartSDR in order for SmartLink to work properly. Rolling back is not an option to use SmartLink.

If people are doing that, then they are causing the problems they are experiencing. Not, SmartLink or Flex Radio.

James

WD5GWY

Erik Carling EI4KF

What Bret is saying is correct. When the SmartLink server goes down, you cannot log in to sign out. You are then at the mercy of pops and other audio abberations as the radio continually tries unsuccessfully to access the server. SSDR needs attention in this respect. But I think we are past beating the dead horse on this. Flex don't see Bret's and others' point of view even though, after all, we only want consistently well performing radios. This should not be too much to ask. The excuse now might be new server, no more problems.

Trucker

It's surprising that you should have to log in to sign out of SmartLink. Is there not a selection where you aren't automatically logged/signed in all the time till you log out and signout? I would think once you log out you would be signed out until you go to connect to SmartLink again.

I guess it's like a web browser remembering your username and password once you first save it. Time saving till a new version of the browser comes along.

James

WD5GWY

WX7Y

This is exactly what I was saying, there should really be a way to tun it off on the radio it self IF and WHEN it happens again. Big deal if people can't log in using SmartLink for a week at least their radios won't be popping and making it impossible to operate some modes.