Anderson Power pole replacement on 6700??

Bob W4PG

Today I found that the Anderson power pole to my 6700 had melted (the hot side). The 6700 WAS NOT ON but power was present. I had turned the power supply on this morning, which powers other equipment as well but did not power up the 6700.

I hope I can replace the power pole but none of the Torx bits I have fit the top cover. Off to my local home improvement store to see if I can find one small enough. I see from another post that the 6500 uses T-8 but not sure if the 6700 is the same.

Any ideas on the correct Torx bit and replacing the power pole in the Flex would be appreciated. This unit is LONG out of warranty and yes I know they have been discontinued, but hope that getting another power pole to replace the one in the rig won't be too much of a problem. Keeping fingers crossed!

...........Bob W4PG

Trucker

My 6600M uses the T-8 bit as did the 6500 I previously had. I bought an inexpensive set of bits with a handle from Harbor Freight. Worked fine.

James

WD5GWY

Erika - KØDD

Doubtful the powerpole melted with the radio off. These things are the weak link in the radios mine has behaved well for a month, but I took the radio with me this weekend to a hamfest 6500 to see if I could generate interest so I could purchase a 6600. Ended up buying another amp, which will put off the 6600 again. I may just hang on to the 6500 as a backup anyway if I can.

Well this morning I noticed.... I run SDRMonitor on my system I place it on the radio panel and it lets me know the voltage in the radio and the final temp. Well I was working asia this morning and glanced at the monitor and since bringing it back the voltage sagged to 13.81... and dropping to 13.2x under load... its usually 13.85 and 13.41... well... as it was running guys I just reached in the rack and gave the connector a little side by side wiggle yes it was warm... and life returned to 13.85... That sort of oxidation on you connectors and not monitoring the connector health is what melted your connector. Get the new pieces and run monitor religiously... and know your system. I do not use power poles on the power supply end and some day may end up changing the radio end to bolt type terminals or a larger beefier power pole. I know i went to their page a couple weeks ago and was looking for something better silver plating is a must! The ones in my Computer UPS are what should be whats on there... and the one on the giant battery on my old businesses Clark Forklift was some serious business. But these tiny ones, no offense are junk...

Might be a good time to convert to a more serious cord connection. Just a suggestion. Erika DD

Bill AB7AA

I too am having difficulties with powerpoles on my 6700's. Since they are rack mounted it is difficult to replace the connectors in the radios as well as their fusses. And, because I'm in a hurry I can only replace the connectors on the cords this time around, but will eventually replace the ones on the radios with something more robust. Anyone have a suggestion?

73,

Bill AB7AA

Erika - KØDD

Bill if you go with the original sized replacement, just make sure it is silver plated. The way mine behaves, it has to be the cheaper tin / solder covered unit. They are supposed to be the 45 amp connectors, but no I sure don't have a recommendation. I'm in the same boat as you guys. I just know I need to watch the voltage to the radio. Its sitting right there at 13.85 right now, so I know the cable is connecting well. Going to any other type of connector would require modifying the radio or should I say cutting around the hole in the back. None of our rigs are under warranty, but YOU could go to a strain relief and PERMANENTLY pull the power cord through the back and solder it to where the Radio end of the PP connector is... They are heavy enough power cords! My issues decreased in half when I removed the power supply ends and went to ring terminals. These radios draw current! So anyway, whatever you decide make sure you increase the look and performance of the radio and not **** it up. They are still worth a bundle. it wouldn't hurt to once a month hit the connector in radio and cord with CRC electric cleaner. I keep a can on my shelf and know I made a mistake when putting the radio back in the rack without spraying. DD

Stan VA7NF

Also note that some power pole connections are loose. Slight bending the contact improves both the tightness (it pulled out with slight chassis movement) and electrical connection (wiping tension on insert)

Bob W4PG

I had the 6700 in service at my primary QTH for several years with no issue. It was only when I took it to my 2nd QTH in SD and made a new connector that I had the issue. I'm 99.99% sure it was a bad connector I made up as I had issues trying to insert the tongue into the housing and think it was not making good contact. I have sent bought an "insertion tool" to help.

I installed FRStack3 and am now regularly monitoring the voltage looking for any significant drop. That should help.

I went ahead and replaced the power pole on the Flex. It slips right onto the metal connectors of the Flex with no problem. One does have to remove the case as well as unsolder a "retention pin loop" that hold the PP down on the Flex. The new PP slides over the Flex metal connectors with no problem.

I have some DeoxIT D5 and will use that on the connectors from time to time while monitoring the voltage.

..........Bob

Al_NN4ZZ

Maybe for the future 75 amp PP connectors would be worth considering.

https://powerwerx.azureedge.net/productattachments/ds-pp75.pdf

https://powerwerx.azureedge.net/productattachments/ds-pp75.pdf

Bill AB7AA

I have now replaced the PP connectors on both cables. When the wife gets a chance to take some pictures with her macro close up lens I will post them here. It shows that the blades on the positive connectors look totally flat and pressed into the plastic shell. They probably took some heat over the years and lost their springiness and showed some de-coloration. I mostly run half power to drive amps so seldom run full 100 watts.

I will probably replace with some sort of terminal **** with spade connectors like my vintage test equipment.

Bill AB7AA

Bill AB7AA

Here are two photos of my 6700 PP damage. The first shows how the positive (red shell) conductor **** has been flattened and molded into the plastic from long periods of heat, while the negative (black shell) conductor still has some spring left in it. The difference must be that the negative conductor has multiple current paths such as case grounds and coax grounds to divide the current flow with the power supply.

The second photo shows the same connectors from a different angle showing the tarnish of the positive connector, which of course increases resistance and exacerbating the problem. The set of PP connectors from my other 6700 showed identical damage.

This heat damage I attribute to running both rigs primarily as receivers continuously for the last 7 years with only a moderate amount of transmissions. When transmitting, power levels are usually about 50 watts for amplifier drive and seldom at 100 watts. In my opinion, the damage was not the result of any singular event and neither rig has ever blown a fuse. I will eventually replace both rig connectors with appropriate sized terminal strips.

Thanks to the wife, Laura AB7BB, for the macro photography.

73,

Bill AB7AA

G1MHU Robin

Make sure that you only purchase genuine Anderson connectors as there are many cheaper fakes out there..

The ones that Quicksilver sell are genuine..

Robin G1MHU

Mike-VA3MW

Robin is correct. There are some ones of less quality.

Also, it is possible that if the connector comes out a bit the junction resistance might go up to an 1 or 2 ohms and 20A of transmit current will cause the connecter to heat up and the case will melt if the plastics aren't designed to handle it.

Bill AB7AA

Mike,

To your comment about quality connectors...The pictures of the melted/deformed PP connector were from the connectors supplied by Flex Radio with my 6700's. I trust that Flex used quality connectors. This is why I will be replacing the radio connectors with terminal strips.

Bill, AB7AA

Stan VA7NF

I have found the XT90, highly used in remote control hobbies, are significantly better than power poles. Look into those connectors before replacing with a terminal ****.

I use the XT60 and XT90 in my G&G kit, except for connecting the Flex. AWG 10 fits the 90 but AWG 8 can be made to work.

Mike-VA3MW

@Bill AB7AA

Do you have a support case opened for this? The reason I ask is that we have seen these melt before, but often it is due to an OEM cable or the wrong 'tabs' being used resulting in a high impedance connection that heats up.

I want to forward the issue to the hardware group just to confirm they have seen it. They may have, but I want to be 100% sure.

Thanks for your input.

Bill AB7AA

Mike,

I do not have a case open for this problem since both 6700's are well out of warranty and it was well within my ability to replace the cable connectors. I have yet to modify the radios with different connectors as this quick fix seems to be holding for now. I still have the damaged cable connectors and can send a set to Flex if desired. I have not dug the radios out of the rack to assess the connectors on the rig end.

Bill, AB7AA

Mike-VA3MW

Thanks Bill

It is always good to open a support ticket for something like this. The concern is why did they melt if the radio was off? Something had to cause a high current situation. Replacing the connectors doesn’t help with the root cause of the problem which would be interesting to know.

Mike

Bill AB7AA

Mike,

Perhaps there was a miss understanding somewhere. My 6700's were left on 24/7 since early 2017.

Bill

Mike-VA3MW

Thanks Bill. I got it! :) We are discussing it internally.

There is no reason that we can figure out 'why' that happened to just you and not all 6700's.

Bill AB7AA

I have heard on this forum of others having the problem. Check with Erika, K0DD above. Her solution of monthly contact cleaner would be a hassle for me with tightly spaced rack mounted equipment.

Bill, AB7AA

WX7Y

My 6700 has been left on 24x7 since 2013 so that is not necessarily a reason for yours to have fail.

WX7Y

Contact cleaner REALY isn't a good long time solution, it would be much better to CLEAN them with contact cleaner THEN put a very very small amount of no-ox or copper based anticize, or better yet a tiny bit of silver based heat sink compound, all 3 of these are oil based either petroleum or silicon and will keep the contacts from oxidizing and may help keep the resistance down on the connection and stop them from heating up in the first place.

This is way to late for your problem but maybe this will help in the future.

MAYBE the reason I have never had a issue with my 6700 for the 10 years it has been powered on 24x7 and in use is because with MANY years in the Communication's / Electronic field I have seen this problem especially with ATC type fuse holders and a few other types of connectors like spade lugs and PowerPole's so I always wipe a tiny film of silver heat sink paste on them with a tooth pick and work them in and out when I install them just out of habit, works like a charm. Don't put to much of any of the oil based antioxidants on the connectors as they will spread out A LOT.

Mike-VA3MW

We've dedicated a significant amount of time internally to discuss the issue you raised over the past few days. Here's our assessment based on our insights.

First off, it's crucial to highlight that the power pole quality, cable construction, and their attachment to radios are not primary contributors to the reported issue. If they were, we'd expect a much higher frequency of failure across radios.

Our educated assumption is that corrosion might be playing a role here. Even a slight corrosion can introduce an additional resistance of 1 or 2 ohms. When you factor in the 20-amp current draw, this could translate to 20-40 watts of heat or more if the resistance is higher.

One aspect that could be contributing is the lack of consistent plugging and unplugging of Power Poles. Unlike other setups, we tend to keep radio cables connected, missing out on the cleaning action that naturally occurs during this process of unplugging and replugging.

Another potential cause is that the cables can become partially unplugged when moving equipment. This might not be immediately obvious to the operator.

Additionally, if the cable hangs down due to its weight, it could also lead to a partial disconnection. 

These factors combined could explain the reported issues.

Yes, over time, powerpole connectors can corrode. Corrosion can occur due to exposure to moisture, humidity, and environmental factors. It's important to periodically inspect and maintain powerpole connectors, especially in outdoor or damp environments, to ensure optimal performance and prevent any potential connection issues caused by corrosion. Using anti-corrosion treatments or ensuring a proper protective housing can also help mitigate the risk of corrosion.

John KB4DU

I still don’t understand why this connector was selected. It’s pretty useful for portable operations and for situations where equipment might be interchanged, but not for equipment that is in one place over 90% of its life.

Al_NN4ZZ

John,

Another option if Flex wants to continue with PowerPole connectors is to use the 75amp version which provides some amperage headroom with the larger contact surfaces. They also provide strain relief options to address the issue of hanging cables. This larger connector with strain relief and / or the mounting plate looks like it would be a good enhancement for the next Flex radio hardware version.

In the mean time it might be worth adding a "strain relief" cable clamp to the back of the current radios. Just a simple **** and wing nut to hold the cable clamp. Seem like this would be easy to do and low cost. Another consideration is to provide a small amount of silver conductive grease with the radios. I've been using it on mine for years. see snapshot below.

https://powerwerx.azureedge.net/productattachments/ds-pp75.pdf

https://powerwerx.azureedge.net/productattachments/ds-pp75.pdf

Regards, Al / NN4ZZ

al (at) nn4zz (dot) com

6600 SSDR V3.4.24

TGXL 1.1.20

PGXL 3.7.32

Win10 Pro V2004

Al_NN4ZZ

Looks like the editor didn't like the word "s c r e w" in my previous comment so maybe it should say BOLT.

In the mean time it might be worth adding a "strain relief" cable clamp to the back of the current radios. Just a simple **** and wing nut to hold the cable clamp. 

Regards, Al / NN4ZZ

al (at) nn4zz (dot) com

6600 SSDR V3.4.24

TGXL 1.1.20

PGXL 3.7.32

Win10 Pro V2004

Mike Krzystyniak

Over the past few days I ran into the defective power pole issue. Today my radio (FLEX6700) simply would not boot up, indicating a shutdown due to low voltage ( something less that the magic 9V moe or less). The message was check the fuse, which I did. It had continuity but when measuring with my DMM, the low resistance scale only has about a tenth of an ohm resolution. Gee, that's only 1V drop per 10 amps of current draw. I may go get a new 30A fuse and replace it on principle.

Moving on, I looked at the onboard power poles. Nothing burned or heat checked. So a bit puzzled I did download and install K9DUR's SDRmonitor and immediately saw a lower voltage on the radio than the supply was set too. Keying up at 50W would shut the 6700 down for low voltage. Grabbing some new 45 amp pins and a fresh set of housings I replaced the suspect connector pair. That was it. Now my set voltage of 13.5V holds at 13.1V during TX. Keeping my fingers crossed there was nothing else that was driving this issue. The old power poles were original, approximately 7 years old.

With K9DUR's SDRminitor installed it provided me with immediate feedback on this interface before things shutdown without warning. Thanks Ray for this SDRmonitor App.

I have added a annual tickler to my calendar to check and inspect ALL powerpoles in the station once a year. YMMV. Thanks to the groups for sharing these topics and your findings.

73, Mike K9MK

WX7Y

you may want to exercise and clean the ATC FUSE underneath the RF cage in the 6700, that has been the cause of the problem here when the low voltage rears it's head.

Jerry W2TXB

I have also noticed a slight difference in measured voltage to the 12-VDC PowerPole connector (13.97 on Rx and 13.57 on Tx (max power output). Power Off voltage is 14.01. SDR Monitor displays internal voltages of 13.70 on Rx and 13.02 on Tx… a difference of ~1/2 volt between external and internal. I am going to remove the covers and do some cleaning… also going to check/clean the fuse. The PowerPole connectors on the radio and cable appear clean and are in new condition despite being several years old.

My power supply is an Astron RS-35A, and the 6700 operates perfectly, so I am wondering if I am "over-engineering" this issue (which is not yet a problem) and if I should not mess with success.

Less than an hour later (including the aforementioned cleaning), the 6700 is back online and still working in a most superb manner. My indicated interior voltage is 13.69 on receive and transmit (who knew?). Cleaning and reseating the DC connector appears to have accomplished little or nothing toward this end, but removing and cleaning and reseating/reinstalling the 30-A fuse apparently did the trick.

My personal result conclusion, at least for this example, is that the fuse needs to remain clean to ensure excellent conductivity. 🙂

KD0RC

Hi Jerry, you are not alone in that result. The simple act of removing and replacing the fuse can do the trick. It is probably a good idea to use some DeOxit or other contact cleaner on the fuse blades and PowerPole contacts, but not absolutely necessary unless you are in a very damp or marine environment.

Jerry W2TXB

Len,

My station environment is neither damp nor otherwise adverse, RH is ~ 50%; ambient temperature is in the 60's (F).

Beyond that, I was going to edit my post, but that ship has been designed to sail. In the meantime, I wondered why the interior voltage measurement did not change (per SDRMonitor 2.4.0) at all… it should have changed at least somewhat. My next step was to restart everything, remove the top cover and measure (w/ Fluke 179) the voltage after the fuse (where the SDRMonitor manual states it reads from). While the radio drew 16.5A, I saw a difference of almost two volts on SDR Monitor. My displayed voltage dropped ~15% while transmitting at full power, while my measured voltage showed a drop of ~8%. While the Astron RS-35M has been rock solid and reliable, I now wonder if it is not as stable as I believed. I will swap out the power supply with a new Astron to see if there is any difference.

Update: Connected a different Astron (SS-30M) and seeing ~2% drop in measured and displayed voltages. I may well have a problem with my RS-35M power supply. Now I am headed in what may be the right direction.