Help with SO2R issues

Mike-VA3MW

Let's see if this explains it.

I took a Maestro connected to a 6500 and did this test:

• 20M SSB
• Opened a 2nd slice on the same panadapter up 5khz
• Turned on FDX
• TX Ant=1 and RX Ant=1
• Transmitted and the RX Audio was muted

I moved up 20Khz and did the same test. RX Audio was muted.

Next, I changed the RX antenna to RX-A and the RX Audio was not Muted.

If there is something that happens at 12Khz, that is not the case now. I suspect that was removed due to the Satellite operation.

I did the testing on 3.3.32 of SmartSDR. It is possible the documentation has not been updated. What was the date of those posts? My guess is they are over 4 years old maybe?

Is that what you are seeing now?

73

p.s. I will discuss this with Eric when he has a moment.

kg9ov

> @Mike-VA3MW said:
> Let's see if this explains it.
> I took a Maestro connected to a 6500 and did this test:
> 20M SSB
> Opened a 2nd slice on the same panadapter up 5khz
> Turned on FDX
> TX Ant=1 and RX Ant=1
> Transmitted and the RX Audio was muted
> I moved up 20Khz and did the same test. RX Audio was muted.
> Next, I changed the RX antenna to RX-A and the RX Audio was not Muted.
> If there is something that happens at 12Khz, that is not the case now. I suspect that was removed due to the Satellite operation.

@Mike-VA3MW, this is not the same use case. The issue occurs within the same slice... the *transmitting* slice. The transmitting slice is the one that is not being muted. As has been stated previously in this thread, I see no way this would be useful in satellite or any other operation.

> I did the testing on 3.3.32 of SmartSDR. It is possible the documentation has not been updated. What was the date of those posts? My guess is they are over 4 years old maybe?

Yes, the posts I referred to previously are older posts. I provided links to them so you can see the entire thread and/or the full post. Though, I don't see how their age applies.

> Is that what you are seeing now?

I don't know what this is referring to.

Mike-VA3MW

Hi

I get it. I did the the test on the transmitting slice in the same panadapter.

A slice is a receiver and all radios have 2 or more. For our test, we have 2 slices and 1 panadapter which is very common for split operation (nothing to do with satellites).

It sounds like I am not understanding the setup, so if you can clearly tell me, step by step, how to recreate your test, I would be glad to figure out what is going on.

The issue occurs within the same slice... the *transmitting* slice. The transmitting slice is the one that is not being muted.

Are you saying that both Slice A and Slice B are on the same exact frequency?

If this is correct, then I use this feature all the time for setting Mic equalization and levels. We do have videos that describe it and many use it.

My apologies for not understanding it. Possibly you could make a video of it please. There are many great tools to do this. like "screen cast o matic" which is free and the one I use.

73

Mike-VA3MW

I keep thinking about this.

In your quote above with the Transmitting Slice not being muted, are you sure you don't have Monitor turned on? Could that be what you are trying to describe?

kg9ov

@Mike-VA3MW this is the simplest configuration I can think of to demonstrate the issue. And yes, I'm sure monitor is OFF.

Flex 6600 - SmartSDR v3.3.32
One panadapter
One slice
On a transverter band (28mhz IF in my case, but I doubt it matters)
Split IF configuration: RX Ant: RX_A TX Ant: XVTA
Mode: USB
Monitor: OFF
Full Duplex (FDX): ON

With this configuration, when you transmit you will hear your own transmit audio with a slight delay.

The expected behavior is to NOT hear the transmit audio.

Alan

Looks like a satellite station, and I assume there are no satellites.

That leaves only one source, you are hearing a harmonic from the RX frequency to the TX frequency.

Many add diplexers on their antennas to act as in-line harmonic filters, just for this reason.

Alan. WA9WUD

Alan

Correction:

Looks like a satellite station, and I assume there are no satellites.

That leaves only one source, you are hearing a harmonic from the TX frequency to the RX frequency.

Many add diplexers on their antennas to act as in-line harmonic filters, just for this reason.

Alan. WA9WUD

kg9ov

> @Alan said:
> Correction:
> Looks like a satellite station, and I assume there are no satellites.
> That leaves only one source, you are hearing a harmonic from the TX frequency to the RX frequency.
> Many add diplexers on their antennas to act as in-line harmonic filters, just for this reason.
> Alan. WA9WUD

1) No, again, this is not satellite.
2) As stated in the simplified example configuration from my last post, this can be reproduced with a single slice. A single slice can only be on one frequency, so no harmonics involved.

Alan

Agree on the Flex side.....but my comment is about the proximity of your TX and RX antennas.

Agree too, it is not about satellites, but the underlying RF concepts are the same.

Open your mind.

Alan

Alan

A simple experiment to eliminate or confirm my suggested RF source of audio would be to remove all of the antennas to your Flex.

With no antennas connected use the XVTA as the TX. It is safe to TX on a Flex XVTA antenna port because it is meager power.

Then, see if you observe the same audio as in the base case.

Alan

Mike-VA3MW

Flex 6600 - SmartSDR v3.3.32

One panadapter

One slice

On a transverter band (28mhz IF in my case, but I doubt it matters)

Split IF configuration: RX Ant: RX_A TX Ant: XVTA

Mode: USB

Monitor: OFF

Full Duplex (FDX): ON

With this configuration, when you transmit you will hear your own transmit audio with a slight delay.

The key part is the single Slice. A only, no other slices.

The radio is only operating at 28Mhz here, so the transverter part isn't critical other than the VFO readout. The actual RF operating frequency at the antenna doesn't really play a part.

Thanks for the clear description. I just did this test with the Maestro and when in FDX, the RX receiver does not mute. It sounds like a bug and I will discuss it with @Eric-KE5DTO. I've already shared with him the steps on how to recreate this.

My apologies for taking so long to fully understand your configuration.

73

kg9ov

@Mike-VA3MW Correct, in the simplified example config there is only one slice (Slice A).

However, it acts the same regardless of the number of slices that are open. With multiple slices and in FDX, I fully expect and want the non-TX slices to have RX audio. What is NOT expected is the TX slice to have RX audio.

jeffu

i have been following along here since this is the same issue I was and still have when I started this thread. Glad to see some progress being made.

Jeff

Mike-VA3MW

@kg9ov

Likely. Now that I think of it, if you had 2 slices open, both were NOT muted. I should have noticed that.

I'll leave it to engineering to figure out the use cases. They don't make changes lightly as many times it affects other use cases.

73

kg9ov

@Mike-VA3MW @Eric-KE5DTO

This continues to be a problem that makes using FDX with a split IF XVTR virtually impossible. Is this issue anywhere on the roadmap? Can we ever expect a fix to address this issue?

Mike-VA3MW

@kg9ov

I want to sincerely apologize for the situation at hand. I understand that this issue is causing inconvenience, and I genuinely regret that it may not be resolved in the immediate future. To be transparent, it's currently listed for repair, but its priority is relatively lower on our current list of tasks. Your patience and understanding during this period are greatly appreciated, and I assure you that we are doing our best to address this matter as efficiently as possible. Please know that we value your feedback and are committed to providing a resolution, even if it takes a bit more time. Thank you for your understanding.