Windows 11

Ronald Bloss

As I'm sure a lot of you know Windows 11 has been announced.

The hardware requirements are so elevated that NONE of my extensive hardware collection will run it. Even my few years old Lenono ideapad laptop will not run it with it's Core i7 CPU (it's not on the supported CPU list). The inclusion of UEFI and TPM 2.0 deprecates all the rest of my machines. I have a few HP Z workstations that use multicore Xeon processors to run Flex software (they are very fast and easily capable of supporting Flex and Windows 11). ALL my hardware gets knocked out by at least one of the requirements.

Ok, yes I can continue to run Windows 10 but the retirement date for Windows 10 is 2025 (not that far ahead) so support will begin to wane for that OS pretty quickly. So eventually, for several years, any Flex not sold with their front panel will possibly require the buyer to add $500-$1000 for a new PC to run the current OS (unless you are lucky enough to be running fairly NEW hardware now). This could eventually cause lost sales and more Flex users abandoning the platform due to the extra cost.

Yes I can buy new machines but that suggestion is unappealing to me at least for the mid term since I have GOOD hardware that is capable of easily running both Flex and Windows 11 (if Microsoft weren't deprecating it). OK, I will have to eventually buy some new hardware once Windows 10 is fully gone but with this situation my environment will suffer for a few years while the transition occurs. I can't really afford to replace EVERY machine I have.

I know it is not a easy request or task but I think Flex should seriously consider developing a client with either a dedicated OS for PCs or do it for Linux. There are mainstream Linux distros that could be reasonably expected to be stable and will not deprecate hardware like Microsoft has obviously decided to do.

And some will say "Well there is the Mac." Yes, but that leaves me with the same, even worse, choice of a platform that is not only more expensive but deprecates machines the fastest.

Ron, KG0J

WK2Y

Where did you see that an I7 won't run? Here's what I find:

"1 gigahertz (GHz) or faster with 2 or more cores on a compatible 64-bit processor or System on a Chip (SoC)" Is there something implied in this I'm not getting?

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-11-specifications

73,

Bob, WK2Y

Neil D Friedman N3DF

In my experience, most folks plan on replacing computers after 4-5 years at most. In the past 40 years, I have had only one computer that served me well for longer—a MacBook Pro that I used for 6 years.

Ronald Bloss

Microsoft has a very specific list of processors that are supported.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/supported/windows-11-supported-intel-processors

Ronald Bloss

Neil, if you buy GOOD machines with good specs there is absolutely no need to replace them that frequently. My machines are not basement models and have been supported until now.

Bill AB7AA

I wouldn't panic. There are many of us that still use Windows 7 without an issue. Since the Flex migration from PowerSDR to SmartSDR I think the processing requirements have been relaxed. I've been using the same computers now for over 10 years and won't change till I absolutely have to. Went from PowerSDR to SmartSDR on the same machines.

73,

Bill AB7AA

Ronald Bloss

OK, as long as Flex is willing to support the older OSs then fine but that will become harder to do moving forward as at some point Microsoft will stop providing some of the underpinnings that Flex might require (I don't know if they do require something at this point that is 'extra'). Since the computer that supports MultiFlex has to be connected to the public Internet then you have to worry to some degree about security since you are likely to use that machine to interact with supporting services/systems with software such as a Browser. Any OS that is end of life will become less and less secure.

By the way, no panic here, just pointing out some concerns.

Erika - KØDD

I'm also a windows insider, was an NT Consultant long before that. and what was the technet subscription deal between the two. I had my rant on MY Facebook Page yesterday. My Precision was a pretty action packed box when it was new. XEON 4 core processor 3.2MHz with 16 Megs of RAM and a new SSD last year or so. and a modest Nvidia Quadro K1200 with 4 LED monitors but I do run SSDR with all the sliders pushed over to the right, meaning it's processor HOG happy... Sure looks pretty though. I have been on the prerelease Insider Track for the last 4 years with this XEON.

The machine had all the fancy secure boot stuff turned on, with TPM 1.2 installed. I had to turn all that extra stuff off a year or more ago when the issues were going down with CAT and DaX drivers. I was getting Blue and Green screens of Death, even yesterday AM I had to reboot the machine 4 times to Green Screens, the 4th attempt was the charm. After getting my Love letter from Microsoft Friday evening they thanked me for my long life with Windows I was a Beta Tester for Chicago (win 95) and with them ever since. But that all ended on Friday Basically you can load up Windows 11 and we expect you too, but this POS you're running doesn't have an accepted processor nor does the machine have TPM 2.0... I had turned everything back on and the machine was wonderful KNOWIng I was going to take an Apache Tomahawk Hatchett to it and chop it to pieces, But the WIN 11 application still said have a nice Life ****... Don't call us we'll call you if we need you. But don't stay up late expecting our call.

So many mommyboards have a spot to install TPM 2.0 modules. Do serious research to see if your MB's will support 2.0 and then 2.0 also needs its latest and greatest FIRMWARE UPDATES. Also If you processor isn't on that accepted list don't bother, UNLESS your MB can handle a processor upgrade with maybe only a BIOS update. You may be able to get a sub standard machine to qualify...

Good Luck Guys. The machine I do want to buy is $15,000 and with that much dinaro I could buy a new 6700, a PGXL and a new rotor with big log periodic or something else. That computer is going to have to wait.

Erika DD

Lionel

The issue isn't with SSDR but rather MS and the apparently new TPM 2 requirement. Three computers here will not run 11 due to the TPM requirement, but they do everything else asked of them, so why would I replace? The SSDR computer requirements are a low barrier for the 6xxx radios, given the heavy lifting inside the black box. Still, feel certain that the W11 will impact SSDR in some unexpected fashion, as it will most all mfg's. What else is new?

I'll stay at 10 until the urge for a new computer build project strikes.

Erik Carling EI4KF

I am running Windows 11 (build 21996) on 2 machines, a new computer build from earlier this year and an old Dell laptop from 1997. There is a well documented workaround (see You Tube for instance) for the TPM 2 issue that initially prevented W11 from installing on the laptop. Both are now working fine as is SmartSDR on both.

I personally dislike being forced to have processes running that I do not want and the downside of W11 is that there are many new ones, the MS Edge Web View nonsense that generates unwanted CPU spikes as it gets its data being the worst. I uninstalled all that, the end result being that the new OS is W10 with a cosmetic makeover only. Latency is the same, the audio subsystem is the same, in fact everything that would bother Flex users is the same - except that low end computers like my laptop needed to have the bloat removed.

Ronald Bloss

Hacking the OS to get it installed is just that, hacking it to get it to run. Although I haven't done any research on the hack mentioned above trouble is a lot of hacks get wiped out any second by an update (just ask the Hackintosh users).

Seems to me this is Microsoft moving hard to monetize the OS even more, requiring Home users to use a Microsoft account and locking things down even harder requiring Secure Boot, UEFI and recent TPM. Their description of all the new 'features' really drive home that desire to get all things tracked and online.

That has nothing to do directly to my post but my disappointment is with the deprecation of good hardware. They've never done this to this extent before. I've had Windows 10 running on Pentium Dual Core processors and an SSD that was pretty usable. There weren't any artificial restrictions other than basic levels of memory and processor speed.

Dewey WØYWW

Last week when I ran the new Microsoft PC Health Check app, I was not surprised that all but a few of my 8 PCs/Laptops (which primarily use Intel i7 microprocessors) failed the TPM v2 criteria, but was surprised that my Microsoft Surface Pro 3 laptop (that has TPM v2) failed Windows 11 test for i5 microprocessor type -- MS's not even supporting their own hardware product.

John KB4DU

So, I guess I’ll keep win 7 for a while longer.

VK7WH Winston

Me too

Winston vk7wh

Ted VE3TRQ

And of course Apple has MacOS 11 and the M1 processor change. Microsoft isn’t alone in making things a bit more miserable for users, or if not miserable, at least expensive :-(

Ronald Bloss

To Erika, I know what you mean, I've been running Windows since 1.0 and have been a tester and an MSDN and Insider for as long as the programs have been offered.

I am just shaking my head in bewilderment.....

Al K0VM

'Most Modern PCs Will Have No Issues Running Windows 11'

Of the six Windows 10 systems in the house, one passed the tpm.msc test for being TPM ready and one MB has a socket for an 'unobtainium' TPM 2.0 module.. NONE of them ( not even the year old 'new' one ) have a compatible CPU :-(

AL, K0VM

N8EMA_Jeff

2025 Windows 10 will stop all updates and support.. SmartSDR will work better then ever! 😁

Ronald Bloss

N8EMA, yep, that 2025 cutoff date is pretty close.

Seems there is finally a bit more info about what and why Microsoft is requiring this. They are trying to containerize any running process/app even down to each tab in the Browser to enhance security. So the level they want to use apparently requires heavy virtualization power from the CPU, hence the cutoff at Gen 8 Intel Devices (these date around 2018 I think). Seems they now think that Gen 7 devices might work but I think anyone older than this will be out of luck. And UEFI and TPM 2.0 are wanted for boot/malware security. Seems to me they should allow the older hardware to run, it just won't have all the security abilities. Two if my Insider machines have now installed 11, my Lenovo ideapad and an older Lenono Mini PC (with a core i5). They both run pretty well but this must be some kind of hybrid install or if it is really full on 11 then what's the problem Microsoft? Supposedly these Insider installs will be disabled when 11 is released (or at least Microsoft says you should do a clean install of 10 when they release 11).

Erik Carling EI4KF

I do not believe it. I have just installed W11 build 22000 on a 2009 laptop. Its CPU is not listed as compatible and as for TPM 2, I could not even find TPM in the BIOS so I doubt that complies either. But follow the well documented procedure to circumvent this MS nonsense and there is no problem. I am convinced this is scare mongering to try to encourage new computer purchases. One of MS' main revenue streams is new computer sales because the manufacturer has to pay for the OS licence. Is this Flex related? Well, only that I like a laptop on hand to utilize Multiflex and operate whilst outside on the patio. If I want to go to W11 and use SmartSDR, I am not inclined to shell out on new hardware.

Ronald Bloss

It is tangentially related to Flex as my original post was about Flex thinking more about developing a client that is not dependent on Windows. At some point after support ends in 2025 for Windows 10 you may want/have to shell out a **** of money for a new computer if you want to safely run SmartSDR on a non-front panel equipped Flex.

Mike-VA3MW

We often look at things from a post sales support perspective. This is going to cause a LOT work.

I just checked my 4 month old high end gaming pc with an AMD Ryzen 7 5800X 8-Core Processor, 3801 Mhz, 8 Core(s), 16 Logical Processor(s)

I might have it turned off in the Bios, but I will need to reboot to check.

Erik Carling EI4KF

I have a machine with the same CPU. It will be a BIOS setting. I did have to turn mine on (Gigabyte B550i Aorus mobo).

David Decoons, wo2x

Yes. For motherboards that do not have a TPM 2.0 (or higher) module, you must have a COU that will support TPM 2.0.

Question, are they going to enforce Bitlocker? This could potentially cause data extraction problems from damaged hard drives.

Dave wo2x

John WA7UAR

I found a useful tool called WhyNotWin11 that has been mentioned by my trusted blog sites. I downloaded it from https://WhyNotWin11.org, confirmed that I really wanted to run it, and had it scan my machine. Image attached. My Getac V110 G3 CPU is a “5th Generation / Skylake” that I have had since about 2016. Everything else seems good to go but… maybe I’ll just have to stick with running Win 10 until it’s end of life.

John WA7UAR

Second attempt to post...

I found a useful tool called WhyNotWin11 that has been mentioned on my trusted blog sites. I downloaded it from https://WhyNotWin11.org, confirmed that I really wanted to run it, and had it scan my machine. Image attached. My Getac V110 G3 CPU is a “5th Generation / Skylake” that I have had since about 2016. Everything else seems good to go but… maybe I’ll just have to stick with running Win 10 until it’s end of life.

halmassey

Microsoft is notorious for revising cutoff dates.

WX7Y

This is surprising, Just ran WhyNotWin11 and my little old NUC shows ALL OK's except for one of the hard drives Partitions

Go figure I guess.

Rich McCabe

Windows 11 installed perfectly on my Surfacebook. Apps seemed to do just fin except I am not current on SmartSDR on the Surface and SmartSDR just closes half way though the install.

So far it is a No Go.

KD0RC

Hi Rich, does Win 11 have a compatibility mode? If so, you might try running SmartSDR as a Win 10 app and see if that works.

Michael N3LI

My 4 year old Windows 10 i5 2.3 GHz, 12 GB RAM terabyte Hard drive fell off the cliff. I think it is because I don't have a Microsoft Account, and use a local account. I'll check again. But, if anyone here remembers the nightmare situation when Windows went to 10 - I really don't want to do that again - that was like an abusive lover. And since Microsoft uses their customers as beta testers, I may just drop the Windows end of SmartSDR. Now the news ain't all bad. My copies of SSDR for Mac, and I gotta remember to update DogPark, anyway, SSDR for Mac provides me with a radio that has had 100 percent uptime.