micro SD card clone?

Joseph

For the third time over the past two years, my 6600m has failed to boot (three flashing reds) after a power cycle. Software this time was 3.2.31 (I know, shame on me for being one cycle down). The official solution after trying cold restarts is for Flex to send a new microSD card which has solved the problem both previous times. Typically that means you are down for 4-5 days, or longer if you span a weekend.

My question is, has anyone tried to clone a known good microSD card? It would be a huge improvement to have a MMTR of a few hours or less versus a few days.

Joseph

...and yes, I have read/watched the posts and videos on the subject. But I still can't see any reason not to clone the card, given that the same card is available from several sources. In any case, I think I would rather have a card failure that I can fix in a few minutes versus an "industrial strength" (whatever that means) card that last longer.

W4TMW

If the SD card seems to be the problem due to corruption and hard drives are more stable, is there a way to bypass the card and use a hard drive to use instead, even on a temporary basis ? That would sure prove whether the card (corruption) is the problem or the program itself.

Tom, W4TMW

David Decoons, wo2x

There is no provision for connecting a hard drive internally in the radio. The radio boots from the microSD.

Dave wo2x

W4TMW

If the SD card seems to be the problem due to corruption and hard drives are more stable, is there a way to bypass the card and use a hard drive to use instead, even on a temporary basis ? That would sure prove whether the card (corruption) is the problem or the program itself.

Tom, W4TMW

WX7Y

I don't think it is the SDCard's themselves failing but the OLDER versions of SmartSDR that was corrupting the Database and writing bad DATA so it really wouldn't have mattered even if you could change over to a SSD you would have still had BAD Writes to the storage device and it would still be a problem.

W4TMW

I thought I was sending this comment (below) instead of a duplicate of my 1st reply.

Well, on a temporary basis, how about an external HD ? Has anything like this ever been done ( on a Flex)?

Tom

David Decoons, wo2x

No, Again, there is no method to have the Flex communicate to the hard drive. There is no hard drive controller in the radio. I did say no in a previous reply to you.

Dave wo2x

Mike-VA3MW

@Joseph

Sorry, you are having issues. While very unusual, there are a few weird things that can cause what you are seeing. Odds are you have sadly experienced 3 different things that result in the same type of failure.

We discuss them in this video.

73

https://youtu.be/3TDRmP8GpbE

George M.

How about this

From what I understand, the SD cards themselves are not physically bad after being corrupted ,just the software, they just need to be reformatted (proprietary formatting or not).

I would think Flex could come out with a program that goes out re-formats the existing SD card to the point that it is set up just like the replacement ones they send us (with the card in the radio or in an external card slot) Large data or not, Most of us have high speed data connections now, after formatting data can be redownloaded and reloaded onto the card. The owners that do not have high speed connections can go through the existing channels IE having SD card sent out by shipment, even with slow data connections it still will not take 2 days to download.

For that mater the cards in the past where only 256Meg now they are 4Gig, so Just like what Windows has, there could be a recovery partition that during boot up could restore the corrupted files VIA special option, menu, or such.

Just a thought

George N1NAZ

WX7Y

Flex want's the cards back so they can do diagnostics on why they failed in the first place and there CAN be a bad card just like any other Electronic device.

I have had 2 radios SDCard's go bad and within 3 working days I had the cards in hand and radio's back up and running and YES a recovery partition would be nice to auto restore, But that probably wont ever happen on the 6000 architecture.

No since worrying about it and just move on and have fun operating the radio

Mark_WS7M

I still feel strongly as follows:

1) I fully agree that Flex wants the cards back so diagnosis can occur. Get that and agree.

2) However it has been proven to be a weak point which as posted here can take your radio down for days. This is why I do clone my cards. Yes I will always use the Flex card, but for that period of exchange, I have a backup.

3) I think it would be a great thing for Flex to offer an SD card (backup) as a purchase option. I'd gladly pay $30 or more even to not have my radio down for 3+ days waiting for the card. It is a $4000 radio anyway. So why not offer me and others the ability to purchase a backup card with the agreement that if our current card fails we can try the backup and if it works then we send in the failed card and like now Flex replaces it and diagnoses it.

I do agree that at times the radio fails to boot not just for card reasons but others. So the idea of having the backup card is for those cases where it can be fixed by using a fresh card. If it doesn't then the help desk ticket is opened and the process begins.

I clone my cards because this has now happened to me three times, one time was literally a week before field day when I planned to use my radio for field day. Luckily the exchange from Flex was fast enough to get here on time.

Until Flex offers a backup program I will continue to clone the cards. Yes I do buy industrial grade cards. I've been in the computer / IT business long enough to know the difference and have the sources.

I have also verified that my radio boots just fine from my cloned backup. But as I said, I will continue to use the Flex card and will work with Flex support to debug issues and the cloned backup is just a fall back should a card exchange be required.

Lastly, Flex doesn't seem to pay that much attention to design ideas but to me the current hardware design of how the card is placed and held is really lousy. I mean the flip up connector and the tape to hold it down seem to be weak points. Look around at all of the current devices that take SD cards, all are push to insert, push to release. Why doesn't flex offer something similar?

Mike-VA3MW

@Mark_WS7M

Yep, we listen. :) Doing a simple change to a board is a really expensive exercise, from time to QA to retooling and testing. That drives up the cost of the radio.

If there is a point when we need to redesign boards, etc., they are taken into consideration.

73

Mark_WS7M

Hi Mike, obviously not a change, but it should have been designed with that socket first. Anyway 20-20 hind sight.

Mark_WS7M

Also my training is EE. I have built many a board and come back later wishing I'd used a different connector. It happens. I would just be nice if a board rev is happening to consider it.

halmassey

Hi Mark,

I often enjoy your posts. Thanks for your contribution here. Do you think there is an actual problem with the existing SD card socket? Because we would likely never spin a board to update a working SD card socket. If the socket was causing field issues that would be a different discussion.

I think you are hoping something else is motivating a board spin and a better socket can be attached to that job?? Just to be clear.

{I practiced for 35 years and have designed boards and been through their entire product life cycle many times. I retired from being the Vice President and General Manager of Hewlett's Packard Business Critical Systems Hardware Division (the big computers). I hold BSEE and MSEE and graduated from Stanford's B-school Executive program in addition---you can read that as follows: Money matters often invisible aesthetics don't.}

Regards

-Hal Massey

Mark_WS7M

Hal, I would not say there is a problem but rather the type of socket is perhaps less than optimal because it requires tape to keep it closed. After replacing my SD card now several times even with the new tape that is sent it is not what I would personally consider a good connection.

I guess I just find it odd that when the 6400 and 6600 series went to board redesigns that a better more positive connector was not sought out and decided upon.

I used my 6600 out at field day once when it was very hot and I opened the case to find that the tape and its stickem were kind of gooey. Just doesn't sit well with me personally.

I also feel that the location of the card is not great. It is difficult to reach and while I think FR figured replacement would be rare, I'm on number three. It is probably the one part, fan as well that would have been designed to be user replaceable because the could wear out.

Just my 2c. I do know how expensive it is to layout and revise boards. I would never ask Flex to do that on an existing product but the 6400 and 6600 did get a new design of many things, While the design is really excellent in many aspects these two things: SD card and Fan access I find lacking because they are what will fail.