SSDR fails to load, hangs up.

James Del Principe

Occasionally, in the past, the launch window failed to react. This was rare but today it took most of the day to boot up into SSDR.
I am running 1.12.1.35 on my 6500.  Last night it worked just fine. I shut down the Flex as I always do and put the Windows 10 PC to 'sleep'. 
This morning, I clicked on the SDR icon and the launch window popped up. It says Flex 6500 is 'available'. OK, so far. I highlight the Flex and the connect button appears. Click 'connect' and it just sits there. I rebooted the Flex, the PC and the network switch many times and tried each time without success. Sometimes I would get the message, Program not responding. Close program or wait for response?  Neither one did anything. I tried this perhaps 24 times and then went off for a few hours. When I just tried it yet again, the app loaded fine. No errors indicated.
Any thoughts?  I know this is V1 software but SW does not 'wear out'. It should work as well as the day I loaded it.      Many Thanks, Jim

Bill -VA3WTB

About the only thing that wood change anything is a change in the computer of some kind. If your on the same software version and you didn't upgrade. The PC is the only thing that changed. But to make sure everything in the radio is in sink, try a full factory reset and see how that goes. Save your profiles first.

James Del Principe

Thanks for the fast reply, Bill. Although there are Dell upgrades from time to time, they have not affected the Flex app, they do drive Logger 32 crazy. To my knowledge, there was no changes since last night.   In the past, rebooting everything will clear this on the first try....Flex, PC and switch....but not today.

Bill -VA3WTB

but it does not seem to be a problem with the Flex SSDR. the only thing that can change is on the PC, even though you think not. Can't help much more unless you do a factory reset. The first place to start.

James Del Principe

OK, Bill. That will be my next step.   I have backed up my profiles just in case and will do the factory reset. Thank you.

Ted VE3TRQ

Sounds like Windows 10 wanted to use your PC and didn't want SSDR to get running. I have had Windows do that kind of thing on occasion - start it up, and the O/S decides it has more important things to do than run my apps :-( Just waiting until it gone done what it thought it needed to do fixed things (in its mind, anyway :-)

This is why I only use Linux and Mac software, and stray into Windows ONLY for those things that I can only do with Windows (fewer and fewer, thankfully).

James Del Principe

Good point, Ted.  I'm going with that explanation for now. I suppose one of these days I will need to upgrade to V 3 just because. I don't work remotely nor do I share my Flex but there are so many 'improvements' I have heard so time to join the 21st century.

Bill -VA3WTB

let us know how things are after your reset..

James Del Principe

OK, Bill. Will do.    

Bill -VA3WTB

But to Teds point,,over time flex has done a lot of work making SSDR run better. Incuding how SSDR starts. It is more dependable and faster. I know you don;t need all the features nor do I, I stayed on V2 because I don't have use for some of the features in V3. But it's all the performance upgrades that you gain when you upgrade.

JohnK2CIB

Windows gets updated most Tuesdays.  Frequently their updates interfere with the proper operation of user programs.  Try backing off their last updates.  If it works you can block that update.  If you do nothing, the update will be installed again in about a month.
John K2CIB

James Del Principe

John, the radio and computer decided to just work on their own. I tried again late this afternoon and it worked with no other intervention.....no fixes on my part. I'll keep in mind about the updates on Tuesdays.     Jim

Bill -VA3WTB

The problem is, he is on v1, and it is very problematic with Windows updates. The latest Versions have little to no problems with windows updates. I recommended to him to upgrade, even for all the performance updates.

James Del Principe

OK, I broke down and bought V 3.   It is like having a new radio. I really thought the performance would be the same but only add the new features for remote or sharing. 
Was I wrong and I admit it.!!!      The noise floor dropped.   Noise reduction works without distorting the signal. ANF actually works!!  Previously, with the input (antenna) shorted, the 'S' meter read greater than S4 which I never understood. Now it reads less than 'S'1.....
First, I removed all elements of V1, using Tim's instructions. Then the actual installation went well. I did not even have to import profiles. They were just there.  The purchase of the license did not go well because I had already registered with Flex but it would not let me use my old password. That was a pain but it is in the past. So, first, thank you to all who offered their kind assistance. Next, if you are at release 1, mow some lawns, make some $$$$   and pay the $ 199.00. You will not regret it. Best 73 to All, Jim     KD1I

Ted VE3TRQ

Yay! Glad you are happy with the improvement, Jim - it's a testament to the gradual improvements we get in our radio hardware over time. You just proved to us that it does work.

I'm sure you will also find the Gremlins :-) They are also always there with the improvements, just along for the ride.

James Del Principe

Ted, I'm very used to dealing with SW gremlins from my work....    fix one issue and create two more. Hi Hi.     but right now it is a huge improvement. We'll see if it boots up OK tomorrow morning.   I'll have to remember to also load V3 onto my laptop where I operate kitchen table portable.    Many Thanks, Jim

James Del Principe

Well, I spoke too soon. The problem is back with this V3 release. This morning I tried to boot up SSDR V3 and no luck. Same issue, just looks a bit different as the 'Launch Window" for V3 is different.
I do not see any errors except the pop up "unable to connect to radio"
I went into task manager and see that with NO apps running, CPU is 5% to 6%, memory is 36%.
When I did finally get SSDR to run correctly, the CPU usage was around 18% and memory 36%.
Network usage was minimal as well. I don't think this is a computer performance issue.
Defender ran 11:35 this AM and found no threats. It did not run during the attempted boot up of SSDR. Device Performance and Health: Storage capacity - no issues, Apps & SW - no issues, Windows time service - no issues.
Once I got it running today, I let it run all day until I rebooted at around 5:20 PM to see if the problem was still there. It was. 
Single clicking on the SDR icon produces no response. Double clicking on it will launch several pop ups. If I eliminate all but one and click on 'connect' the box will go away and I get a pop up saying 'unable to connect to radio'.
In task manager, under 'details' says "Smart SDR not responding" and then toggles to running but it never boots up.
I am really am wits end. Other apps run fine...Chrome connects to web OK... etc.
I'm thinking it is a Windows issue but don't quite know enough to go further.

KD0RC

Could it be a network problem?  Maybe try plugging the computer directly into the radio to see if that has an effect.  You might also try a different cable to see what that does.
73,
Len, KD0RC

James Del Principe

Len, I had considered that possibility. I did not try that yet as the computer downloaded SSDR V3 rapidly and it loaded well. Also, I have a reliable web connection using that switch.   It does raise a good point however, so first thing tomorrow I will try exactly that. Thank you for your input.     73, Jim

James Del Principe

OK, considering this to be a network issue, I eliminated the network switch and connected the radio to the PC with a short ethernet cable.  It worked fine. I rebooted from cold several times just to make sure. Then I tried the other network cable. Same thing. Booted up just fine several tries.
I switched ports on my 8 port switch but no luck. It errored every time. Must be the switch, right?
This afternoon I bought a Netgear gigabit 4 port switch and tried it. First time it worked great.
I then tried rebooting it and it errored just like before.   Right now I cannot get SSDR to boot properly.
So is it really a switch problem?   I am really confused.   In a bit, I will try to cable directly yet again but it can't stay that way. I need a web connection for other apps.       Many thanks, Jim

Ted VE3TRQ

Since you have determined this appears to be a network issue, James, perhaps you should look for address conflicts - that would certainly confuse the heck out of any network dependent application. Connecting a cable from the Flex to your PC rules out address conflicts (each device is assigned a "self-assigned IP address in the "169." range).

Is it possible your address allocation tools (DHCP in your router, fixed IP address assigned by you, etc) is causing issues? Is it possible that there are a couple of devices with either the same IP address or MAC address (it IS possible to have a MAC address conflict for devices that allow MAC spoofing)?

James Del Principe

Ted, thank you for that information, something I had not even considered. I have nothing new in my network and it used to work fine for several years but I will need to check for those conflicts. My network is a WiFi router upstairs connected to a switch in the shack via copper. The switch is only connected to the shack PC and the Flex. I do have other computers running on WiFi and a range extender in the shack for another PC that uses WiFi.   I have 6 cameras on blu tooth to a central unit on the network upstairs.....but as I said, this used to work for years in this configuration.
I think I should start by disconnecting the modem from the shack switch.
Thanks again for your ideas.    Best 73, Jim

Ted VE3TRQ

Jim, thinking about network issues causing a problem, I don't know enough about SSDR to guess at what kind of network access it may be trying to do as part of startup (does it try to determine update status? Or is it only the radio that does that). I have an "M" model, and a Mac, so I don't really use SSDR. But, is it hanging up trying to access an outside resource? Of course when direct-connected to a PC with a 169. address, it would not even try, so could not hang up at some startup network access. Maybe even a DNS lookup.

I'm kinda guessing here, but these things do come to mind. I would be using network sniffer tools to help me out (but then I'm a network guy).

James Del Principe

Ted, you are light years ahead of me on network issues but I do understand basic troubleshooting from 47 years of field service in radio and medical x-ray which became all computers and networks before I retired.
OK, so what I found is if I disconnect the ethernet to the upstairs network and keep the PC and Flex on the switch downstairs, it boots reliably.  I did this several times to be sure.
Then I reconnected the cable to the upstairs network and sure enough, it failed.
That cable goes upstairs to a LinkSys 5 port switch with several devices connected and then to a Netgear Nighthawk WiFi hotspot. That unit connects via cell to AT&T, my ISP.   So I really have two switches, one upstairs feeding the one downstairs.
I wonder, who is performing the DHCP? Can they be in conflict with one another?

Tomorrow, when I can see in that dark corner, I will isolate each connection on that switch upstairs and see if it makes a difference.  Again, thank you for sharing your expertise.   73, Jim

Ted VE3TRQ

An observation, Jim - by disconnecting from the WiFi router (likely your source of DHCP), you probably forced your radio and PC to use self-assigned (169.) IP addresses, so have the same setup as a direct cable between PC and radio.

I agree, you should isolate your devices as you work on this. Perhaps as a first step, isolate all but your shack PC and radio and your ISP access - leave your shack switch connected to your router to the outside world, and disconnect everything else (painful as that might be), then connect one at a time until the startup of SSDR fails. That should help isolate the offender.

Good luck with this Jim.

James Del Principe

Ted, last question of the night.  Does each device, modem or switch perform DHCP to any device 'downstream' of it?   For example, would the shack computer hand out to the Flex and PC and the upstairs switch hand out to the devices connected to it?

Ted VE3TRQ

Jim, I sent this initially to your personal email - the Flex community website won’t let me login on my iPad, but figured I'd go to my MacBook to post this also.

Typically only your router (usually the WiFi device connected to your ISP) will give out IP addresses. If there are multiple devices on your network handing out addresses (i.e. running DHCP servers), you can have no end of intermittent trouble. Windows PCs never give out addresses - the “self-assigned” addresses are assigned by the device itself using an algorithm that almost always results in unique addresses - the PC gives itself an address, the radio gives itself an address.

Switches (except high-end ones) don’t hand out addresses, only routers. Do be on the lookout for cases where the DHCP server hands out NO addresses - that will (may) result in a device having a self- assigned address that just doesn’t play well with anything that DOES get an address from the DHCP server. This can happen if you have a limited pool of addresses being handed out by the router, and you add more devices than it has addresses to hand out.

Sorry if this is all a bit much, but the more stuff in your network, the more “interesting” things get :-)

Ted  VE3TRQ

James Del Principe

Thank you, Ted. That is an education in itself. Nice to know who hands out the IP addresses.   OK, this morning I disconnected all the connections to the upstairs switch, keeping the connection to the shack switch and the WiFi hotspot.   It worked!
Next, I reconnected the central unit for my security cameras....still worked. I booted from cold several times just to be sure.
The I reconnected the WD "My Cloud Home" external drive.   Bingo!  It failed. I verified this several times and then disconnected it again.   Right now I have rebooted from cold during the day and it is still working. Now there is one other possibility that you mentioned....total number of connections... I should disconnect the security cameras and reconnect the cloud drive just to be certain.....although I can live without that external drive but would like to keep the cameras...  It's fun to see the bears, deer, turkeys, fox and possum... Thanks again for all your help.   73, Jim

Ted VE3TRQ

If your problem is too few addresses, Jim, you can reconfigure your router to allocate some more. Good idea to check out number of devices / IP addresses. Disconnecting any one device should give you that answer.

James Del Principe

Thanks, Ted. In this case my 'router' would seem to be the Netgear Nighthawk Hot spot. I wonder if that is even possible to configure.
Strange that my setup had been working for several years with no faults until recently.
I'll try to disconnect the cameras and reconnect the 'cloud drive' and see what the results are.   Very Best, Jim

Ted VE3TRQ

If this is the Nighthawk LTE Hotspot Router, it definitely has the capability to handle 250 IP addresses. Of course a misbehaving device constantly asking for a new address, and not doing the right thing to release an old one could exhaust the available pool (but it would have to misbehave pretty badly).

You should be able to login to the hotspot with a browser using the base address - for example if you have addresses like 192.168.1.X, the router interface would be on 192.168.1.1. It will have an admin password.