To Flex Radio

Bill -VA3WTB

I want to mention the latest SD card problems as it reflects on the customers.
It seems clear that a group, or maybe just one person has dropped the ball on this problem going back for some time.
It seems Flex was very slow on a response to this problem and did not pay much attention to it early on. I have talked to customers that state that  after warning about the problems, they were told that it must be something that the customer is doing wrong that causes the corruption on the Cards. Then also blaming the company that makes the cards for bad cards shipped to Flex, although to be fair there were some bad shipments. And that was corrected.

It seems clear that Flex should have been on top of this from the very first complaints and began looking into it. but after many customers were complaining, who knows how many, Flex looked into it. To late. I trust that in your next meetings you will discuss this in detail and talk about what could have been done differently and learn from it.

I am happy that the root cause of this was found and that we can all move ahead with this behind us, but it is the lingering un easy feeling customers have from the way it was, is handled.

The second thing I want to say is there seems to be a communication problem with customers. People want to be more informed about their radios in for repair. Or things happening in software that effects users enjoyment with their radios.

Flex has such an advantage over many companies when it comes to communications. We have this community, the only ham radio company with this kind of community format. It is a great place to communicate with us every day. Even if there is nothing to share, just drop in and say hi,,remember we are here to help. And we have the CEO of Flex dropping bye at times to give updates. and Flex staff read over the community and post to help us, and all this is good. Just keep taking advantage of this Flex!

I am not one as many people know fast to criticise, I will call them as I see them. I know Flex Radio will grow from this.

That is how many customers see this from our perspective. we don't have all the inside info and workings behind this, I would like Flex to give a rundown on what happened in the Flex world so we can better understand.

Rick WN2C

"I would like Flex to give a rundown on what happened in the Flex world so we can better understand."

Bill, I hate to say it but... it's not gonna happen...

Dave - W6OVP

Excellent! I'm still waiting to see any benefit from the vaunted infusion of military contract money which was supposed to help the commercial side as well. Meanwhile, am not upgrading software.

Bill -VA3WTB

Dave, how long do you feel is expected to see the benefits? Remember, any benefits will be from things they are doing in the contract, this may be a while.
I really think you should move to the last V2 update or you run a real risk of having your radio stop working.

Dave - W6OVP

Huh???  Works fine now. No need to take risks of damages others are reporting for very small potential gain.

Bill -VA3WTB

Dave, if you are not on the latest updates, your version has bad code, and that at any moment can corrupt you SD card, in witch you don't care bout from your comment. No problem, I hope nothing happens then you will need it fixed.

Dave - W6OVP

Thank You for your concern. Have a nice day.

K1ESE

Bill, you may want to go easy on the advice.  You must not be a CW operator.  The last working update for CW ops was 2.4.9.  Anything higher than that including any version 3 has problems. 

I reported the CW problems and at the Help Desk Ken told me to downgrade from version 3 to 2.4.9.  That solved the issue.

I wrote the help desk again when the latest versions with the SD card fixes came out.  This time it was Tim who told me I bold type not to upgrade but to stick with 2.4.9.  

On the Friday webcast Tim said that they would come out with a SD card fix for 2.4.x so that we could continue with that version.  I'm waiting on that.

One size does not fit all and telling everyone to do the upgrade is not a good idea.

Bill -VA3WTB

Dave did not say he was into CW, so the advice is good. As Tim and Ken knows, the code in V2..4.9 is bad. But if that is the only way people can use CW than yes stick with what your doing, then if the card gets corrupted deal with it then.

Bob Needleman

"Anything higher than that (2.4.9)  including any version 3 has problems."
Curious what problem you're referring to when operating CW with Versions above 2.4.9? I am a new 6600M owner, running the latest Ver. 3.1.12 and am primarily a CW operator. I am using it without any issues (I don't use QSK). I use an iambic paddle and the internal keyer. I haven't experienced any issues on CW (15-20 wpm)  so far so curious what problem you're referring to.
Bob K3AC

ctate243

With all due respect.. I support a major multi-multi contest station, We are standardized on 3.1.12.  We will be qrv in WPX cw, and one of our ops is a top ranking cwt competitor.  there are some minor issues sometimes and those have been communicated to the team for addressing, but overall it does not slow us down from being in the top competitive level in CW.    As far as the SD card, they have found the problem, and fixed it.  Sounds like according to time also fix 2.49 so I would hope we can move past this and look forward.

Bob Needleman

Bill - I"m not having any problem using CW in Ver. 3.1.12. Please explain what Dave is referring to re: problems with using CW on versions other than 2.4.9. Scratching my head on this one as my 6600M seems to work fine on CW with 3.1.12.
Bob K3AC

N8SDR

Oh the Rose colored glass syndrome, is still in effect and some people should not be giving advice and certainly not trying to cover things with a do goodie attitude esp. when they have been wrong in past and continue to do so at present, Keep drinking the Kool Aid. 

His comments on air today with a group has driven the nail in the coffin for me when my unit comes back repair after the second time in less than 2 years for Power issues, and no TX it will remain in the box and quickly be posted for sale. 

Flex sales, service and support I suggest you take a long look at the  problem , issues reported here on community and one individuals comments in most of those cases and you'll quickly see why so many of us are fed up and feeling the way we do.

 I originally purchased a 6000 series Flex based on my past experience with a Flex 3000 I had for over 12 years and hardly any issue, and when I did customer service then was handled different and the responses were great and took care of it rapidly, in one example Dudley resolved a ticket on Christmas eve via email with me, I was so impressed and never forgot that and it was why I bought a new 6000 series, that was my first mistake as sadly that seemed to be the last good impression I have had with customer service and some individuals who are quick to blame others for issues that steamed from coding and hardware but yet was handled differently being told it was an operator error or misuse problem. Then there is the unfixed software as noted on the forums and other places over two -3 years of coding issues and things not working as they should.

And the hardware which is nothing like the past use of quality parts. Frankly, I do not know if I can trust the unit I have when it comes back of not having issues again.

 As stated some folks esp. one individual who thinks they work for Flex maybe they do perhaps  or maybe it’s a dream  in there on comatose mind sure love preaching and serving the Kool Aid.

Bill -VA3WTB

Bob, I have no idea, you will have to wait  for Dave to to reply to you.

Ned K1NJ

Bill and crew,
                        I've been on vs. 2.6.2 since May 15.  So far, so good, but I haven't used cw
much.  What problems have been observed?  I went to 2.6.2 to avoid SD corruption.  What
difficulties should I be looking for?  Rig is 6600.
Ned,  K1NJ

ctate243

Just to be clear, I have and support 4 X Flex 6600-M, 1 X flex 6400, 2 X PGXL.  PGXL is not a qsk amp..  but our CW operations and operators work fine.. Nothing is perfect.. and there are occasional issues that come up that can be worked through.  I have operators ranging from early 20's to early 80's using flex 6000 for CW successfully.   I am not sure what the problem is but Id like to hear more about it.. and maybe I can share a workaround or 2.

Bill -VA3WTB

Ned, I can'y say much about CW, but I think there is a problem with the ATU function. The ATU seems to work better on 2.4.9. I have know idea what the hold up is on fixing the ATU. For this very reason Flex will produce a 2.4.9 update so people can stay on it and be protected from SD card corruption.

I am not a Flex employee.

Lasse Moell

I'll bite... We are a number of users that have the power drop to zero during a transmission. Only to recover if radio switch to RX and the TX again. This happens quite often, but so far noone have managed to find a pattern. Oh yes it has been reported to Flex and is ackowledged!
Reply from Tim: "This is defect G7759 and it is currently being investigated by the software team.  At this time the workaround is to stop sending and allow the radio to transition to RX and then start resending."
We (not just me) have had this issue for more than a year.  Trust me it's not fun to get through the big pile-up, start sending the reply only to realize your transmission was just a few characters....
Why some tries to ridicule us suffering is like pouring salt in the wound.  We just humble ask for a solution to let us use CW as it my favourite mode.  It seems using QSK may hide the problem due to the TX/RX cycle, but as my amp is not supporting QSK, this is not a valid way for me.

Steven WA8Y

I am a CW operator, I've been using the latest version for about one week ( V2.6.2.50). The only difference, there is no TX in panafall. Is "TX is panafall " a setting I enable? If it is, where do I enable it? I don't use the ATU. I forgot that was a problem.

Bill -VA3WTB

Lasse,does it still do it on v2.4.9?

Bob Needleman

Bill - please confirm something I recall reading about Ver. 3.1.12. That is, you do NOT recommend going back to an earlier Ver 2.x version after you've upgraded. I am mainly a CW operator, and I was not planning on dropping back to 2.4.9, but just wanted to get confirmation that doing that could cause a problem.
Bob K3AC

Michael N3LI

Welcome to the Flex community. For good or bad, anyone can post here, and they can post anything they want. If you read this group, you can come away with the solid impression that Flex radios do not work, have never worked, and never will work. I used to post here quite often, but find the place toxic today. and devolving to  the old rec.radio.amateur. policy netnews group level Coming back for a problem I was having, I see it has not changed. If your radio works - it works. We have a top notch contester using one of our club members Flex radios remotely to do CW. He hasn't complained. Peace out.

ctate243

Steven,  the answer is Radio setup > TX Tab and enable "Show TX in Waterfall"

Bill -VA3WTB

Bob, there are differences in the code and they are not fully compatible. Yes it is recommended not to go back. Tim posted a how to guide if you really want to.

Bob Needleman

OK Bill - thanks for the reply. I have no intention to go back to ver 2.x but was curious about what could happen if I did.
73,
Bob K3AC

Bill -VA3WTB

And Bob, nice work on your thoughts about profiles. You have spent a lot of time testing things to understand what is happening. I am now saving all my bands, modes and all possible settings with Global Profiles. Now as I jump around or play day to day, nothing changes in the profiles and they satay just like I want them. Thanks. I did much the same testing and study into the EQ in the Flex to understand what the sliders are doing and how they effect the sound of the radio. I ran tone test for each slider to find the cut off and all sorts of things and I did a far amount  of writing on it. it is nice to have time to play..lol

Lasse Moell

Honestly, it's been so long I am not sure. But it started to get frequent from 2.5.1 I was  about to try 2.4.9 again but as the SD-issue is still there I was adviced not to do it.  I may even drop down to 1.12 just to have a working radio.

Bill -VA3WTB

Lasse, As you know any update older than the latest has bad code in it. and not safe. It is up to you what risk you want to take on. Remember a fix for 2.4.9 is due out anytime. This will allow people to use that version and be safe from SD corruption. Many use 2.4.9 because of the ATU and a few other problems, so this fix for 2.4.9 will be important.

Lasse Moell

Bill, I see you did comment on my post some 10 months ago regarding this issue ( https://community.flexradio.com/flexradio/topics/spuruious-no-power-output ) but searching the forum I found this not a new issue, it was reported some 4 years ago!!!
https://community.flexradio.com/flexradio/topics/output-power?topic-reply-list%5Bsettings%5D%5Bfilte...
And it was only last year we got an aknowledgement from Flex that this is a defect. But it´s still there and getting worse every update

Bill -VA3WTB

Yes thanks for pointing that out. The problem is not a problem for every user. Maybe contact Flex and tell them that this is getting worse after every update for you. I hope it is better for you in V2.4.9. When the fix for 2.4.9 comes out, you don't want to go further back and put the radio in danger of stopping altogether.

I am not a Flex employee.

Mike-VA3MW

Hey Bill

I thought I would comment and share as much as I can on this.  I talked it over with Eric, our VP of Engineering, so he has also read your comments and we all feel the pain that people went through.  

If you watched the Friday broadcast we did you YouTube, we did discuss this and what happened.   Once we confirmed we had an issue (it usually takes 2 or 4 people reporting the exact same thing), we did start to dig into this.  And, it took a very long time to narrow it down since it was so intermittent.  

The symptom was that the card failed.  That was the easy part to find.  Narrow down the way too much longer than anyone wanted, including us.  There were lots and lots of engineering and support man months on this.  We never stopped looking and there was a  long period of time that we also thought that it was the quality of the uSD card.  

Once they figured out how to make it fail then debugging further got faster.  Then, they tried something as a fix and it worked.  Sorry, I can't go into details beyond that.  

Anyway, you have been heard and I am sure that sometimes we may look like we are ignoring you, but that is not the case.  It is that there are just not enough hours in the day it seems for all of us.  

You can always phone us and talk to us.  Everyone returns calls and you can reach me at x222 or even Matt at x204.  

Thanks for listening, Mike