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Requested additions or change

Glenn Depp
Glenn Depp Member ✭✭
edited June 2020 in New Ideas
Automatic Band Mode changing.  Providing a way to disable this would help digital mode operators out greatly.
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Comments

  • Mike-VA3MW
    Mike-VA3MW FlexRadio Employee, Community Manager admin
    edited May 2020
    Glenn

    Can you explain a bit more about what is happening?

    Mike

  • Glenn Depp
    Glenn Depp Member ✭✭
    edited May 2020
    While scanning in ALE this is MARS ALE btw when the frequencies are in the LSB frequency ranges the frequency will select LSB.  The big issue is some MARS frequencies are near these lower bands which makes the current frequency show LSB rather than the required USB which is what Amateur Radio also requires, USB for ALE.
  • WX7Y
    WX7Y Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 2020
    I do this using the memories I have saved,  a couple key clicks and all your settings for the particular band and frequency are preset for you. 73
    Bret



  • Mike-VA3MW
    Mike-VA3MW FlexRadio Employee, Community Manager admin
    edited May 2020
    So, this is outside the ham bands.  

    I can't test with an ALE device as I don't have one.  What happens if you manually go through all the bands that you are scanning and then set the mode.  This would take advantage of Persistance. 

    (Section 18.7 of the manual)  

    Persistence, always enabled on your Signature Series radio, remembers settings from band to band without your direct action so that when you return to a band, your settings are restored. For example, if you are operating on 20m and set the Slice frequency to 14.185, then go to 10m and set the Slice frequency to 28.1 MHz and then go back to 20m, persistence will return your Slice to 14.185 MHz. 

    Mike

  • Glenn Depp
    Glenn Depp Member ✭✭
    edited May 2020
    Persistence does nothing when controlled by third party software.  The issue continues.  I know I am not the only one as I am others are having same issue, also trying different solutions but none the less the issue continues.  I really feel the ONLY solution is to have the ability for the user to turn off the automatic mode change depending upon the band.  Memories in the flex do nothing either as MARS ALE are not scanning the flex memory channels, nor is there the ability to do that.
  • Mike-VA3MW
    Mike-VA3MW FlexRadio Employee, Community Manager admin
    edited May 2020
    Glenn

    I just took my 6600M and set 80 to USB, 40 to USB and 20 to LSB and then I used HRD to change bands.  They maintained their mode (which was the opposite of what is normal).

    What I don't know is what commands is the ALE software sending to the radio?  Do you have a copy of the command string?  You can actually get this from turning on logging in SmartSDR CAT.

    Mike
  • Glenn Depp
    Glenn Depp Member ✭✭
    edited May 2020
     MD2;FA0XXXX000;FR0;SB0;  This is what is being sent.  I found a test line and tried whole group together and received a ? response.  I tried all separately and the radio made changes except for the SB0 command.  Only single commands were liked by the test line.  Do I need to have all commands on a single line in the MMI?
    X's are replacing frequencies.  Not supposed to send out our frequencies.  They are near Amateur bands.  So had issues with it switching to LSB, Split mode on specific frequencies, Different commands showing up such as MD09, MD02. The split issues were when using the Flex5000 commands in the Flex 6600.  Is there a list of what valid commands are for the 6600, all I have been told are kenwood commands are good.


  • Glenn Depp
    Glenn Depp Member ✭✭
    edited May 2020
    I removed the SB0 command from every MMI command and the ? went away.  Still have the issue of one frequency switching to LSB, It is very close to an Amateur Band.. 
    When I use the MMI Radio to control radio I get constant clicking, When I use the Flex5000 command structure I get Quiet Scanning.  I am going to try the MD09 and MD9 command I see in the log to see if it is allowing quiet scanning
    
  • Glenn Depp
    Glenn Depp Member ✭✭
    edited May 2020
    Looking at the pre-configured Flex 5000 controls in the Log I have come up with the following for my MAC files.
    MMI Radio Preconfiguration must be:
    RADCMD ID;
    RADCMD FR0;
    RADCMD FT0
    RADCMD RX;
    Each Radio channel MAC file must contain:
    radcmd FR0;FT0;
    radcmd RX;
    radcmd FAXXXXXXXX;
    radcmd MD2;

    It is currently working and in the silent scan mode.  I have NOT tried to connect to anyone else yet.  I still think this will be an issue for other ALE programs out there and needs to have the ability to select either on or off for automatic mode changing for bands.  I think every Flex user will agree.  I will post again if find another issue.  I did not realize the CAT had a log, was useful, a clear button would be handy in it for testing however.
  • Mike-VA3MW
    Mike-VA3MW FlexRadio Employee, Community Manager admin
    edited June 2020
    I talked with some of the engineering staff that know this issue a bit better than I do.  (thanks Tim)

    This is a well known PC-ALE issue. 

    PC-ALE needs to send the  CAT mode command along with the frequency command when scanning (changing frequencies).  This has been a problem for years, I have sent this info to the PC-ALE developers and had multiple users do the same.  For them, it would be a simple fix as then there would be no assumption that the radio is in the correct mode.  ALE does not send a MODE command.

    Some users have scripted a way around this, but I do not have the details on how to do that in PC-ALE

    It isn't a defect.  The radio is behaving as designed. 

    It is switching to the proper sideband mode when the frequency is change to below 60m (I forget the exact frequency change point)

    We recommend that you reach out to the ALE developers.  If they need some further technical guidance, I would be happy to provide it.

    Mike

  • Glenn Depp
    Glenn Depp Member ✭✭
    edited May 2020
    I am not sure what I did to get it working earlier, but, Now that I took a break and started over again, I am having similar issues.  LSB for the near amateur radio band frequency and split mode operation for near another lower band.  I am confused all over again.
  • Glenn Depp
    Glenn Depp Member ✭✭
    edited May 2020
    Is there a list of commands that Flex Radios will adhere to.  I have only heard to use Kenwood Commands.
  • Mike-VA3MW
    Mike-VA3MW FlexRadio Employee, Community Manager admin
    edited May 2020
    That is correct.  We only use Kenwood commands and they are published in our downloads area.

    https://www.flexradio.com/downloads/smartsdr-cat-user-guide-pdf/

  • N2CKH
    N2CKH Member
    edited June 2020
    I do not recall ever being told about this LSB issue with FLEX6000 radios until Glenn Depp contacted me. I am not saying that I was never told about it however. I do all that I can to address issues with the end users choice of radio hardware, where in most cases I don't even have access to the specific hardware, which has always been the case with FLEXRADIO units.

    The best thing, as with other makes of radios, would be to provide a means to disable the HAM band automatic switching to LSB mode feature as your radios are not just used within the HAM bands. The international standard for ALE is USB on all wavelengths, regardless of the ALE standard being applied. This too is true of some other digital modes, to include use within and outside the HAM bands.

    Both MARS-ALE and PC-ALE, for all makes/models of HF transceivers setup the HF transceiver being used for USB at the start of scanning. Then only resend the USB remote control command again if the previous channel was configured as LSB when mixed channels, which Army MARS once used, are the case.

    This change came about some 15 years now as too many older radios could not deal with all the data was being sent during scanning and still meet the required ALE timing at all the scan rates provided. New radios that can operate at serial baud rates in excess of 19,200 baud are not an issue in that regard, however the framework applies to all radio model selections. 

    Within the existing ALE API, all radios in this regard need to be treated the same. A special case would need to made somehow just for a FLEX6000 radio type selection. However the developing Dynamic Link Library (.DLL under Windows, .SO for coming Linux ALE tools) Radio Driver model can be modified to support an exception. Then too writing a driver using the new TCP/IP interface were all radios will be the latest and not require remote control data throttling is another option. The published DLL-RADIO interface will allow anyone to create a radio driver, to include a radio manufacturer that wants to see their radio properly used for ALE. I mention that as I just do not have access to all makes/models of HF transceivers.

    Sincerely,

    /s/ Steve, N2CKH
    [email protected]



  • John WA7UAR
    John WA7UAR Member ✭✭
    edited May 2020
    The developer of Automatic Link Establishment (ALE) has created a (beta?) update to his ALE.exe software which states:

    "New FLEX6000 selection using the FLEX5000 driver with modification to always send mode during each channel step during ALE scanning."

    His updated .exe is dated May 15, 2020 and the link to his program is:
    https://groups.io/g/MARS-FLEX6000/files/MARS-ALE%20FLEX6000%20Test%20Builds

    It looks like you have to be a member of the MARS-FLEX6000 groups page to get at the new executable.

    I don't yet run ALE myself so I am unable to test further at this time. But I wanted to document this possible workaround for Flex ALE users.

    Comments here from users of this new version would be appreciated.

  • N2CKH
    N2CKH Member
    edited May 2020
    I had to code a special exception into the MARS-ALE v3.nn framework in support of a new FLEX6000 radio type selection as FLEX applies the automatic ham band LSB selection logic outside of the HAM bands and does not provide a means of disabling. This will not be done in future ALE tools for MARS. No idea at this how I will handle it in the developing DLL-RADIO or if I will bother. This has not been done in PC-ALE and will not show until the next update some time from now. It really would be best for all concerned as it affects all out-band-use, if FLEX either added a manual means to disable the feature or wrote into the firmware an automatic means when the MARS option is installed.

    Sincerely,

    /s/ Steve, N2CKH
  • John WA7UAR
    John WA7UAR Member ✭✭
    edited June 2020
    Steve has released a specific ALE update that targets FLEX 6000 series radios. It (likely) also incorporates his recent "Fix for Automatic LSB Mode Selection in Flex Radios during ALE Scanning." His releases are on his Groups io page:

    https://groups.io/g/MARS-FLEX6000/files/MARS-ALE%20FLEX6000%20Test%20Builds


    Steve wrote about the release:
    Hello,
    This is a notification to let you know that the following files have been uploaded to the Files area of the [email protected] group.Uploaded By: MARSALE <[email protected]>
    Description:
    FLEX6000 ALE_32 Test Build
    Cheers,
    The Groups.io Team

    As this Flex radio community environment is being retired by the end of June 2020, these references may be harder to find until Flex spins up a new community group. I encourage all MARS and ALE interested users who use Flex radios to subscribe to Steve's MARS-FLEX6000 page: https://groups.io/g/MARS-FLEX6000


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