MOX locks in TX mode on CW after sending a few characters

K7JV

FLEX 6400 to a dipole, unmatched SWR < 1.5:1.  Connected to the WAN/LAN via Ethernet.
Maestro connected via wifi to the FLEX 6400.  Both running the most current software/firmware.
The combination is only slightly over a month old, and both were new, not reconditioned.

Problem:  When I send CW (Bencher paddles, Maestro internal keyer) at between 15 and 20 WPM, after three or four characters the MOX light no longer winks red, but latches red and the radio stays in the TX mode.

When this happens, I have to press the MOX key twice before the radio will go back to RX.

Anything even close to QSK is not possible.

It is the short elements (dits) that cause it to latch.

I have noted that if I tap a single dit, the MOX light actually flickers twice.  Longer elements (dah's) do not cause the MOX light to flicker.  If it flickers, it is going to latch the MOX.  If it does not flicker, but just comes red like it is supposed to, the MOX works like it should and does not latch.

I have tried it with Breakin ENABLED and DISABLED.  With it DISABLED, the latching problem goes away, but the CW transmitted by the radio is unreadable, broken bits of signal, according on on-air reports.  With it ENABLED, the on-air reports are good, but the MOX stays latched.

I did learn that "Breakin" does NOT refer to QSK.  Its function really is that of a CW VOX in that I was told that with it disabled, the radio should not transmit.

I have tried it with varying durations of DELAY with no joy.

I tried downgrading to the next lower lower software version on the radio, but that didn't make any difference.

I have tried numerious re-boots of the Maestro, the FLEX 6400, and both the Maestro and the FLEX with no joy.

I am at my wits end.  I had the problem about a week and a half ago, and it seemed to "heal" on its own.  Then yesterday it came back.  Today it has not healed on its own.

Thoughts?

K7JV - Jim (Idaho)

Mike-VA3MW

Hi Jim

As you have determined, it isn't related to the software as you have changed versions.    

This sounds like there is a bottle neck in your LAN somewhere. 

As a test, can you connect a LAN cable from the Maestro the the radio directly (no router or switch) and see if you can recreate the problem.  If the problem is still there, then we should get a support ticket open.  If not, the we need to look at your LAN.  This can happen when there are high level of latency in the network.  You won't see this happen while surfing or streaming video since our radio communications is a high level of back and forth communication.

BTW, you can still have RFI issues with a great SWR.      But, I don't think that is it based on your description.

Let us know how you make out.

73

Duane_AC5AA

If you haven't already, you might try a ferrite choke on the paddle line to the Maestro. 

K7JV

Hi, Michael.  I just connected the Maestro directly to the radio and the problem did not go away.  FYI, yesterday I checked the antenna impedance and SWR at the coax fitting at the radio with an MFJ antenna analyzer, and the values were SWR 1.3:1, resistance 63 ohms real and 8 ohms reactive, so that is a pretty good match.  I would not expect alot in the way of feedline radiation RFI issues.  The antenna is a B&W folded dipole in the attic, fed by RG-8 coax and their 2 kW balun unit at the terminals of the antenna.  The cable from the Bencher to the Maestro is coiled, and only about 14" long.  On 3.572 MHz, that would not likely be much of a portal for RFI, either, I don't think.  Also, I just tried it on 40M and 20M, and the problem does not appear to be frequency related.

Thank you for your thoughts, and I'm interested in where to try to go from here.  Ken has been working with me in the past on this, and we thought we were good.  However the problem came back.

Also, are you the Michael that we met at the Yuma hamfest, in mid February, this year?  That was a great show!

K7JV

Thank you, Duane.  I don't currently have any ferrite chokes, but take a peek at what I just sent to Michael.  I have some chokes in our RV, as well as another Bencher paddle that has a more "user-friendly" phono cable on it that I want to swap with the one here, in the shack.  I will bring some home with me and if we haven't worked it out by then, I'll stick them on the line.

KD0RC

Hey Jim, you might want to try plugging the paddles directly into the 6400 to see if it is the Maestro/network/wifi. If it still has the problem when plugged in directly, it may be RF getting in as suggested by Duane.  In my case (not the same symptoms as yours), the RF was getting in through the speakers, so I put ferrites on the speaker wires, mic, PTT and key lines.  Cleared it right up.  Only did it on lower bands where the antenna is close to the operating position.  The beam on a 50 ft tower did not produce the problem.
73,
Len, KD0RC

Neil D Friedman N3DF

Michael says he doesn't think you have an RFI problem, and that's good enough for me.  However, you might note that 100 watts into an attic antenna can result in RFI issues, even though the SWR match is perfect.  

K7JV

Ok, Len, great suggestion.  Thanks to your suggestion, we now know more.  When I plugged the paddles into the radio, the problem went away.  It took a bit for me to figure out how to get sidetone from the radio, but I was able to plug my headphones into the back of it, and it works.  Now until I get the Maestro working right, at least I can switch the audio and use the radio I/O for CW and the Maestro I/O for SSB.

Also, I removed the direct Ethernet connection between the radio and the Maestro, and it still works as I just described.

Now to figure out why it doesn't work with the Maestro!!!!  Hopefully Michael will see this, as well.  And hopefully Ken will, as well.

We are gaining on this monster, I think.

K7JV

I will agree, Neil.  I forgot to mention that the problem doesn't go away, even when I turn the TX power level clear to zero.  That does totally take RFI from the feedline or antenna out of the equation.  It is true that even with the CW output power at zero, the problem still exists.

Mike-VA3MW

One more test. Turn your RF power to zero and test. That will eliminate RF as a possible contributor. If Yuma that wasn’t me M

K7JV

Hi, Michael.  I did do that.  The problem is there, even with the output power set at zero.

Also, as I noted above, when I connect the paddles to the radio, the problem is gone, whether the radio is connected to my LAN/WAN or connected directly to the Maestro.

I hope we're getting some clues that will line up like a good celestial event and lead to the root of the problem.  Somehow the Maestro is starting to be a bit suspect, to me since when it is out of the equation, everything works absolutely beautifully.  Is there a way to re-install the software in the Maestro, or is that a factory process?  Or is that even a possibility in your thinking?

Mike-VA3MW

Ok, good work so far. 

I think it is time to open a support case on this.   

If connecting the paddles to the radio works, that that shows that we have a communication issue between the Maestro and the radio and RF is not the issue.  

I leave the rest to the support staff as they are trained on the internals a bit more than I am.  I just help to try to eliminate anything that might be environmentally related.  

They likely have a few other tests for you, but they work on in this area all the time.  The support team is fully staffed, so they will be able to provide the next set of directions via out support portal.

https://helpdesk.flexradio.com/hc/en-us/articles/202118688-How-to-Submit-a-Request-for-Technical-Support

73 for now and good luck

Mike

K7JV

Ok, Mike, thank you.  Last quick question, did what you did actaully pass the request on to them, or do I need to start from scratch with the request for technical support on the website?

Also, at Yuma there were three from FLEX, Mike, Lori and Steve.  They did a nice job for your company.

KD0RC

Excellent!  Glad to hear you are making progress.  Good to hear you have a way to stay on CW until this is resolved. 

Len

Mike-VA3MW

Hi

I'm the only Mike, and I wasn't there.     I wonder who it was.  It might have been Matt, but I am not sure he went.  Maybe it was Dave.

I'll convert this to a Support ticket for you.

73

KD0RC

Mike, I just love this kind of support. The fact that you and other Flex employees stay engaged on this forum is a real testament to Flex customer commitment. 73, Len, KD0RC

K7JV

Thank you Mike. We may have two, but hopefully they’ll see that and delete one. I did a pretty thorough submission last night. Note I’ll keep my fingers crossed. And “times two” on what Len said.

K7JV

Ok, MANY MANY MANY THANKS to KEN!!!

He had me downgrade the radio to version 2.4.9, do a factory reset, do a Maestro cold boot, and then test.  It passed with flying colors at 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 and 30 WPM.  He then had me upgrade back to version 3.1.8 and do the same factory reset.  The procedure he had me follow was essentially the following:

Using the Maestro, DOWNGRADE the radio to Version 2.4.9

FACTORY RESET the RADIO

            Turn the RADIO OFF, then WAIT TWO MINUTES

            DISCONNECT 12 Volt Supply, then WAIT THIRTY SECONDS

            Return Power to the Radio, then WAIT TWO MINUTES

            Press & Hold Power Button until it turns WHITE, then Release

                        (Allow the Radio to Boot Up normally)

 

Do a LONG PRESS to SHUT DOWN the Maestro (At least 15 seconds)

(Until all panel lights are off)

WAIT 30 SECONDS then RESTART the Maestro

 

 

To UPGRADE - CONNECT or CHANGE RADIO and SELECT Version 3.1.8

FACTORY RESET the RADIO

            Turn the RADIO OFF, then WAIT TWO MINUTES

            DISCONNECT 12 Volt Supply, then WAIT THIRTY SECONDS

            Return Power to the Radio, then WAIT TWO MINUTES

            Press & Hold Power Button until it turns WHITE, then Release

                        (Allow the Radio to Boot Up normally)

 

Do a LONG PRESS to SHUT DOWN the Maestro (At least 15 seconds)

(Until all panel lights are off)

WAIT 30 SECONDS then RESTART the Maestro

RE-CONNECT to the Radio on Version 3.1.8

When I got back to Version 3.1.8 all was well.  Problem solved.  Yay!!

THANK YOU AGAIN KEN!!!!!