RBOG Antenna

dlwarnberg

Does anyone have any experience with a KD9SV Products RBOG Reversible Beverage-On-Ground Antenna?  With all this new found property I am thinking about trying one out... advice / suggestions?

I have a FLEX-6500 and am looking to improve my "ears"

Thanks

Juan TG9AJR

Good question David, I am also highly interest in the RBOG topic specially for the 160m with my 6600.

Steve K9ZW

I am putting in two this summer, spaced 90 degrees from each other. At this stage I can only remark on the purchasing phase. Would like to compare notes along the way. 73 Steve K9ZW http://K9ZW.wordpress.com

Kam Sirageldin

I have used them at my Maryland QTH and now at my Costa Rican QTH TI7W. In every instance I have found them to be highly effective at improving S/N ratio over most transmit antennas. I say 'most' because I use a full size 3el 80m yagi here, and the beverage hears about the same as that. But verticals, loops, inverted vees, etc have all been less effective RX wise than the RBOG. Just don't install it in parallel with any wire fencing, and smear the wire connections with Naalox or similar because they tend to corrode a bit in weather. I use the WD1 military telephone wire and it works fine. 73, Kam N3KS

dlwarnberg

So I did just order a single kit with wire so I guess the experiment begins...

dlwarnberg

Thanks for the reply, ordered a kit and will be experimenting soon...

Thanks again

dlwarnberg

So this is a really dumb question, but do they really mean ON THE GROUND?  like wire not elevated at all???

Juan TG9AJR

Yes literally "on the ground".

dlwarnberg

well that makes it easy to put up now doesn't it?   hahahaha

Kam Sirageldin

On the ground will result in good performance but you may need an external preamp because the signals will be pretty low in amplitude - but remember it's the signal to noise ratio you care about with RX antennas and that will be really good. I hang my beverage wires a few feet above the ground and any performance degradation has not been noticeable to me. 73 Kam N3KS TI7W

Jay Adrick

You might want to take a look at the BevFlex. It can be used on ground or as a conventional Beverage. Geoff, W8GNM, a fellow Flex owner and internationally known engineer designed the BevFlex. It uses RG-6 CATV coax and is reversable and trimable from the shack.

73 Jay K8CJY

Steve K9ZW

Historical literature suggests they can be buried as well. There are antidotal further references to buried military uses. The references seem to lack technical details or performance summaries. My intent is to lay mine on the surface ignoring the cover that will collect. More to protect the wires from animals and traffic. Nearby hams with elevated beverages have been experiencing both types of damage, and had one snowmobiler get pretty caught up in one beverage. I’ll put up some links if wanted. 73 Steve K9ZW

Juan TG9AJR

I looked at that but has been Out Of Stock and I have not been lucky enough to get any answer from JK. If anyone else is lucky let me know. And does need according to their website "(Customer weather-proofing needed during installation)".

Ted VE3TRQ

Slightly off topic, but since the discussion is getting pretty general, I’ll put my 2 cents worth in. I live in an area with an HOA, and am not allowed to put up outside antennas. My antennas are in the attic, close to just too much electrical wiring. My noise levels on 80m are about S8, and on 160m about S9. I need a really strong signal before I hear much of anything. Enter the “LoG” - Loop on Ground :-) Last fall, just before snow arrived, I put a 60 foot loop of #10 stranded insulated wire (supposed to be a 15 ft per side square, but I just made it round) on the grass around the base of a tree in the back yard, connected to 50 ohm coax with a 1:9 beverage transformer. I immediately had a noise level on 80m and 160m of about S2 or S3 (so 6 S-units down from my attic). The signals appear to be about 2 or 3 S-units down compared to the wire in the attic, but the noise is down 6 - so I appear to have a 3 to 4 S-unit signal to noise advantage over the attic antenna. During the winter I noticed no degradation when the loop was buried under two feet of snow. Now that grass cutting and lawn maintenance season is about to start, I figured I needed to protect the wire from the contractors, so buried it under the sod (an inch or two under ground). And guess what? It STILL works the same. I’d rather have a nice wire high up, but this hidden loop makes me able to hear OK - and it also functions reasonably well up to 20m. Receive antennas really do work, especially when you have Rx antenna inputs on your radio. Ted VE3TRQ

Rick N4RZ

Oddly enough I removed my KD9SV RBOG from service earlier today.  I used it for two winters and found it to have little or no directivity and it displayed no advantage over my other antennas (dipole and OCF) in signal-to-noise ratio.    

AC9S

I have been using KD9SV RBOGs for the past two years.  I won't say they are a highly effective, but sometimes the BOG makes the difference between working a station and not.  Example:  I worked C5DL on 160 CW two nights ago.  He was lost in the noise of my quarter wave sloper, but I was able to copy him on the BOG for the contact.  I have two at right angles: for some reason the NE one is more effective than the others, but they all work.

I lay my wire on the ground and have found that they are not as effective in the spring when the grass begins to cover them.  I now lift them up periodically throughout the winter.  Snow doesn't seem to make a difference.  

Having praised them I am thinking of a SAL30 so that I can have low noise, directive hearing during the mowing months.  I rolled my BOGs up a couple of days ago.

Keith - AC9S

Lee - N2LEE

The one that intriques me is the BEV-Flex beverage.
https://jkantennas.com/rx-antenna.html

https://www.amateurradio.com/the-jk-bevflex-4-antenna/

It is interesting not only because of the performance as well as that it uses RG6 but also how many different configurations can be created.

Anyone using one of these rxantennas ?

K0FLY

I used the KD9SV RBOG  this winter (laying on the ground).  I found it had about the same performance as my k9AY setup.  Some times the K9AY was better and some times RBOG was better in the directions it was pointed.  I was expecting a little better performance, although I may have not had large enough common mode chokes on the two coax cables.  I was looking to hear the next layer of signals on 160 that the K9AY loops were not, I did not reach my goal.

 I purchased the RBOG pre-amp box, it works OK, however, from an engineering standpoint I did not like the +12 connector being an RCA jack.  If that connector some how comes out, you have +12 exposed on the center pin of the RCA male.  I made an adapter cable to power poles with a 1/2 amp inline fuse.

I'm about to start building a multiple K9AY array set up for End Fire feed.  Next winter I will install the RBOG 1 to 2 inches above the ground to see how it works, maybe I need to go little higher. 

I'm about to roll up the BOG, the K9AY loops  stay up year around.

As they say " Your Mileage may vary".

Gayle K0FLY

PS: You might want to look at W3LPL's presentation on "Easy to Build Receiving Arrays For Samll and Large Lots".  It a PDF file at the following address: https://www.contestuniversity.com/.../6.-W3LPL-Easy-to-Build-Low-Band-Receiving-...

Gayle 

dlwarnberg

I'm looking at it to be a companion to my 43' vertical

dlwarnberg

I took a peek at that one as well and yes it is intriguing... but out of stock 

dlwarnberg

Thanks, will look it over

Ray Sylvester

look at a w1aex pennant antenna  73 ft of wire simple install no radials 

K0FLY

One additional comment, purchase ON4UN's "Low Band DXing Book", spend a lot of time reading Chapter 7(RX Antennas).   

Gayle K0FLY

HCampbell WB4IVF

Yes.  Also W8JI’s site:

http://www.w8ji.com/beverages.htm

…. maybe the authority on Beverages, except for Harold “Bev” Beverage himself of course.

2 reversible beverages here, and another in the making.  BOGs not an option due to critter and tractor ground traffic.  Also the BOGs require periodic extraction from growing vegetation. 

Howard

dlwarnberg

Thanks for all the replies, my RBOG experiment is just that... another option I have considered is a DX Engineering Receive Four Square Array System or something along those lines.. again I am sure my milage may very.  Appreciate all the replies and feedback.. keep it coming.

Thanks Again

K0FLY

I also have been looking at this system, I talked to the guys at DX Eng last year at Dayton, I was not impressed with their  knowledge of this product.   There are several positive reviews of this system  on E-Ham.  DL6LAU wrote a review about comparing the DX engineering RX 4 sq against  600 to 800 foot beverages.  The 4 SQ worked as well as the beverage antennas.

My transmit antenna uses elevated radials, I think that they maybe re-radiating noise which is hurting my receive.

Gayle K0FLY

Steve K9ZW

Put together my RBOG V-array shopping list with links:

https://k9zw.wordpress.com/2019/04/19/about-the-rbog-antennas/

73

Steve
K9ZW

http://k9zw.wordpress.com

HCampbell WB4IVF

Here is a performance comparison of many Rx antennas, rated in terms of RDF.  It doesn't include the BOG, but does include other beverages, beverage arrays, and 4 square arrays:

https://www.w8ji.com/receiving.htm

Also, there are many excellent informative posts from knowledgeable hams on BOGs and RBOGs in the Topband archives:

http://lists.contesting.com/_topband/

(type in BOG or RBOG)

Howard

dlwarnberg

Excellent, thank you

dlwarnberg

So initial testing shows promise but not the result I expected.. I need to get my 43' vert up to be sure and test further.  Right now during the day I see no receive improvement over the temp vertical I have in place, I do have a "pulse" that I pick up on both antenna systems which I think are the overhead power lines across the front of my house but moving the RBOG did not reduce the pulse as much as I'd hoped.

Anyway the testing continues when I have some more solid results will share.

Finding the optimum placement of the RBOG is ongoing.

Contemplating a 4 square phased array.

dlwarnberg

Steve... notes... first off I have discovered I have very poor soil for a ground.. example I can take a 4 ft ground rod and just about push it all the way in without a hammer.  I then also discovered I can just about do the same with an 8 ft ground rod.. so I have ordered some compression couplers and am going to stack ground rods until I get into some fairly solid ground, very sandy area I have moved too.  Anyway am still working on this... since I have also installed the 43' vertical, again grounding it an issue and am putting down ground radials while I wait for the compression fittings to arrive.

But comparing the RBOG (180' of wire down) to the 43' vertical, the noise floor is slightly lower, but pointing just 2 directions I am limited on signals to compare but.. still working with it and hoping the better ground will help things.