Questions of the new 3.0 Signature Series software

Ken Hansen

Rather than complain about a thread you no longer care about, consider opting-out of the discussion - see below

Michael Coslo

That only keeps the emails from being sent to you. Once we go to the webpage the "Gimme Are stuff!!!" posts are still there in all their glory.

Then again, the freebies and whiners have in the past just convinced me to go elsewhere. I came back, but  I'm about at that exit level now. Again.  

It's called the tragedy of the commons, where a public area ends up taken over by the least common denominator. 

I would love a Slashdot style moderation system.

Ken Hansen

I'm 20 years on Slashdot (4 digit uid), their moderation system isn't that great - it requires a massive reader pool to work out.

Bill -VA3WTB

Flex no longer monitors the community as they once did. It is up to us to try and keep things orderly.
And there are ways we can do this.  
Keeping in mind all the different types of people with many opinions.

Some people start a thread only to stir up the base.
Some start a thread from a stand point of lack of understanding and information.
Some start a thread out of frustration and think by doing so they can hurt Flex by airing their discontent with Flex in the community.
And some comment in threads because of all the above or to criticise those trying to help others.

But to all of you who rise above all that and really do make a difference,,please keep doing what your doing, helping...

I know of a couple community members that just hang on every word I say and spend their time correcting me, clearly upset with me trying to help others as an example.

We can either be a help to the community or a hindrance. It's up to us. I find myself saying things a little sharply that should be worded better.

I invite everyone to be a helpful member. This community offers something not found in any other group.

Steve K9ZW

To anyone reading this thread later, the thread title was edited to reduce the pejorative nature of its original version. Good idea that took way to long to happen. Uncertain if comments have also received some editing and culling. 73 Steve K9ZW

Mike-VA3MW

We do encourage free speech as long as it is professional.  I edited the name a bit this morning.

Igor Rybin

Do not buy updates if they are not needed. Well, I would be willing to pay; $ 199.99, if it supports the simultaneous operation of Maestro and SmartSdr, it is in this update, and not in a few years. I do not work in competitions and I do not need the work of two operators on my flex radio.
How long will my maestro rust if I want to use it only as flex control along with smart sdr?

Mike-VA3MW

Yes, in V3, you can use the Mestro and SmartSDR at the same time to listen to different slices.  

I don't think Maestro's rust!  

Igor Rybin

Why the same time to listen to different slices?  I need to rotate the maestro valkoder and see it in the Smart SDR program in one slice, or something I do not understand?

HCampbell WB4IVF

Hopefully what has been described in V3.0 is the first major step in that direction, and will be followed by V3.x updates that will allow SSDR and Maestro to “mirror” each other as has been discussed.  I agree that would be a great feature, even if implemented incrementally due to its complexity.

Also, while my Maestro "A" hasn’t rusted, it’s been collecting some dust and I have to remember to charge it monthly.  V3.x would solve those problems!  (-:

Howard

Igor Rybin

>and I have to remember to charge it monthly.
Oh! But I definitely didn’t do this for a long time, thanks for reminding me!

Bob G W1GLV

Right on Mike.

K9SO

My concern is that they're calling it SmartSDR v3 and that implies (rightly or wrongly) that v2 is obsolete. Once v2 came out the updates to v1 stopped coming. Typical of most software. You really feel like you have to upgrade. 

 I would feel much more comfortable if they would call it "SmartShare v1.0" or something that didn't imply the need to upgrade from 2.0.

Fred
K9SO

Bill -VA3WTB

Be careful about using the word absolete. Even V1 is not obsolete, it continues to perform well for those that did not upgrade, nothing has changed with the radio.

One thing about Buying a Flex, you have to know it will keep evolving, changing, updating four or five times a year, it is amazing how many people that seems to bother.
V2 may become feature frozen, but if any critical bugs are discovered, there will alway be updates to fix them.

Ted VE3TRQ

“V2 may become feature frozen, but if any critical bugs are discovered, there will alway be updates to fix them.” I doubt accuracy of that statement above, Bill. There was _one_ update to v1 after v2 was released - I expect no more. The same is likely to be the case with v2 - once the initial bug fix is released (incorporating the fixes in v3), I doubt there will be another v2 bug fix release unless something _really_ serious surfaces that breaks v2 (and we have not seen that yet!). If that happens once v3 has been out for a while, you will likely only see that fix in v3 (especially if v4 is imminent). Maybe a bit pessimistic, but software development cycles dictate that’s the way it will work.

Bill -VA3WTB

Ted, I understand you questioning Gerald's statments.

Serious Bugs and defects have always been attended to Ted.

K9SO

Bill, if you re-read what I said, I think that the fact that they're calling it SmartSDR v3 IMPLIES an obsolescence. It's true of almost every other piece of software I own. Even though the the older versions continue to work well, eventually the support diminishes or goes away (for those other companies). 

I know that's not true in this case, but if they simply changed the name of the new software (like a new "radio model"), maybe it would remove some of the pressures and cost complaints of an upgrade being felt by some. 

It is indeed an advantage of a FlexRadio that you can get a "new radio" with new features for just $200. That's a terrific thing that no one else can offer and I for one will jump on the v3 bandwagon.

But the message is lost when you call it a new revision of the software.

Fred
K9SO

Mike VE3CKO

I would feel much more comfortable if they would call it "SmartShare v1.0" or something that didn't imply the need to upgrade from 2.0.

So now there is a debate regarding the naming of the software for the product line. I think you are a few years too late. You or I don't get a vote, it's done and over, get over it. I'm sure it made competitor more uncomfortable, the name certainly does imply that it's "Smart", perhaps smarter than other SDRs. Don't mean to be sarcastic but what's next, a discussion on the color of the box and how it might be offensive or uncomfortable to some people? Or, even the box shape, it's so problematic because it makes us square people feel like were being made fun of.

Kevin

Ya. Right. Don't mean to be sarcastic but... 

"If you have questions to ask or feedback to give, you've come to the right place."
"And for those who provide the best and consistent answers, you can achieve FlexRadio Elmer status!"

And this is the best answer we can expect from a FlexRadio Elmer?

Now that's sarcastic.

Mike VE3CKO

I've assisted when I feel I have something to offer to help others. On the other hand I do have opinions and sometimes when I see something that doesn't sit right with me, or is beyond common sense, I voice my opinion. Again, my opinion and not FRS. Oh yes, was being quite sarcastic and the get over it was meant to get to the point but yes I can see it was over aggressive, so I take back saying" get over it".

Bill -VA3WTB

Mike,,get over it...Lol

Mike VE3CKO

Now I'm going to have to pay The Eagles some royalties for using Get Over It. Classic Joe Walsh slide guitar on that tune, it was the first song Don Henley and Glenn Frey wrote together when they reunited for **** Freezes Over.

Bill -VA3WTB

Being a ham, it would be funny to see Joe Walsh comment here about that...

Igor Rybin

No, until you make use of Maestro with SmartSdr at the same time, it makes no sense to switch to V3.

Rocinante

As a new 6400 owner, I see that V3 also makes it possible to simultaneously run SDR on my laptop and my iPad.  Seems like an opportunity for some interesting multi-screen scenarios, will learn more as time passes and I experiment with it.

Mike VE3CKO

As a 6700 owner I find it quite nice to be able to leave my shack computer running SmartSDR and then open up either a laptop or Maestro elsewhere on the LAN. I use the Maestro nightly on and off throughout the night into the morning.

Unfortunately since I moved out to the country 15 months ago, the only ISP available uses double NAT and I am unable to use SmartLink. I have inquired here and there seems to be no solution for this.

Rocinante

Another thought:

I worked and lived in the software industry for over 20 years. As such, I'm fine with a business model that says the following:

• "New version coming - here are the new features, and here's the free upgrade window for new buyers of our hardware."

• "When the upgrade comes out, our existing users get a good price should they choose to move to the latest software."

• "We won't break users of the previous version in an effort to force upgrades." 

BTW, the existing version of a company's software and hardware are always the biggest competitors to its new offerings, and every business must find a way to overcome that inertia.

Every business that sells both hardware and software, especially where that software is not offered as a service (e.g. by subscription), must find a way to keep making a decent profit even during a window when they may sell more software upgrades than new hardware. The approach they've adopted at Flex is typical and widely understood. Companies like Apple, which provide free MacOS upgrades, make their money elsewhere in an ecosystem they have created. The same is becoming true of Microsoft Windows. However, Flex doesn't have that kind of ecosystem (at least not yet), and as such relies on both sales of hardware and it's platform software for profitability.

If Flex Radio didn't want to last in the market, two good ways to cause business failure would be to permanently offer free software upgrades for old radios that bring in no new revenue, or to offer upgrades that aren't worth the money.

A third excellent way to fail in the market would be for Flex to listen really hard to folks who aren't yet paying customers but say, "Hey, if you only added this one feature, I'd break out my checkbook and buy your radio tomorrow."  Turns out, those people never buy, no matter how many features Flex adds. Short of doing better competitive market research, existing customers are really their only worthwhile source of feature requests.

Every major software package upgrade must be based on a theme that can be explained quickly and easily in the equivalent of an elevator pitch, at the end of which we find ourselves saying, "Shut up and take my money." Based on comments here, the theme for this release seems to be, "improved remote operations and contesting support." For some people, the desired result was achieved. For others, apparently, not so much.

So, customers who don't think the upgrade is worth the price should stick with version 2. They are teaching Flex something valuable. Flex will have to decide whether to work harder next time to identify and deliver features that also persuades those customers to upgrade to the next major version (e.g. build the next major release based on a different theme, adding new features they had to cut from V3).

Those of us who "must have" the new features but fall outside the free upgrade window can either buy a new radio for a large amount of money, or buy the upgrade for a significantly smaller amount of money. It's great that we have this choice with SDR. vs. the good old "knob radios" my mom used when I was growing up.

The following opinion may be controversial, but the only thing I might like better than Flex's existing upgrade model would be to have them offer their radio software as a service. In exchange for a reasonable regular payment we'd get support and upgrades to our radio software for as long as we remained subscribers. Such a model would free us and them from the tyranny of major upgrade cycles. In addition to an occasional major upgrade, Flex could regularly add small, carefully themed packages of new features as often as they wanted, frequently adding new reasons to be delighted with our Flex Radios.

Bill -VA3WTB

I am not a Flex emplyee.

Very interesting and thougtful comments.
 Here a couple of mine:

As I understand, Flex does not make any money on software. As Gerald said, if we made software for our competitors it still would not be enough.

Flex income in the ham market is the hardware.

I know there are a few that feel Flex is doomed, at the virge of death. Doom and gloom,, I predict otherwise. Their busines model thus far has been very succssesfull, so I beleive they will leave things alone.

This version three is also a landmark in ham radio, it breaks new ground never done before, It is not just about better remoting, it is about multi client. And many are discovering ways to use it outside of contesting effecting the average users.

The features in the first release of V3 were planed at the very beginning of the 6xxx series radios.

Keep in mind, we have almost two years of V3 updates to go, about 4 to five updates per year. Going from past update history.

For a new software release they also did a nice job. They said there was to be a new software release, then they very clearly explained what was in the up coming release and how it would work.

They had all hands on deck, they had several emplyees here on the forum to answer questions and help people with issues.
They opened the support phone lines for further support.

And to make it clear, Flex recomends people not updrade unless they have a need for V3 features.

Ted VE3TRQ

Yup - back to the tried and true VPN, Mike :-) Still works great with DynDNS set up on your router. There is an ongoing conversation about ZeroTier that may just alleviate these kinds of connection issues - bridges, too.

Rocinante

Excellent point, btw: multiple client support is certainly more than just "improved remote operations," my bad.
My new 6400 came with V3 installed, so I look forward to the updates and improvements that will likely happen for V3 during its lifetime. Should be exciting! As updates and hoped-for new features are able to draw more folks over the line from V2 to V3, so much the better.