Why you need a PGXL?

ctate243

John - AF3K

For me, the value of a Flex made amp is in the integration with the Flex radios and software.  There is just nothing out there that comes close to what Flex does over Ethernet/ DAX/CAT etc.  I would be happy to pay a premium over what I paid for my KPA500 for a very high quality, less than full legal limit, smaller, quieter amp from Flex.

Bill - W9KKN

Even you came to the conclusion that you still need amplifier redundancy in RTTY RU ;-) I'm personally pretty happy with the dual RF-kit setup I'm rolling with now, but a pair of PGXL's is where it's at. The real question I have: how offended would FRS be if any other amplifiers started speaking the PGXL SmartSDR TCP/IP APIs, sparsely documented as they presently are.

ctate243

Hi BIll--

2 PGXL's... thats a lotta amp :-).  Having an Acom, 4 alphas and 2 AL1200's at my disposal at RO convers that redundancy.. but  The RF-kit amps are quite intriguing to me as well.. I know they are growing in popularity.

As far as FRS being offended by figuring out a way to use existing API's to make a product work in an integrated manner.. thats a question I cant answer.. I would hope they would welcome the ingenuity. 

Ria

ctate243

Bill FWIW, the second amp would be a stay in the game redundancy strategy rather than a functional workflow strategy, Tom K2SC/8P5A lectured on the emergence of equipment like this, and decisions to use/or not based on op scenarios, such as being in a contespedition situation  if the amp goes.. can you stay in the game.. so in this case the second amp would be if the first fails..  to stay in the game. 

Patrick

Must I remind all that the difference between 1K and 1.5 K. Is 1.76 dB. Not enough on FT8 to make a noticeable difference at the other end.

KY6LA_Howard

NONSENSE... if they cant copy you because  you are -24 then adding almost 2dB brings you to -22 where they can copy you...


Every watt helps when you are weak at the receiving end.

Bill W2PKY

Every EME operator wishes they could easily find another 1.76dB advantage for their station.

Pat N6PAT

Patrick

Not worth the extra cost, for me to duplicate what I have . Would cost me about 1700 dollars not worth the 1.76 dB.

KF4HR

I think you are missing Howard's point.  At some -db threshold level a FT8 will not be able to be received.  But adding a couple of db could make all the difference.  And as Bill mentioned, same situation as EME. 

Patrick

Most of the time I actually use 500 watts or less, and still work close to 100% of the stations that call me or I call. I generally see what SNR is being reported and then set power accordingly. Propagation has more to do with it all, then raw power.

Patrick

No I know what Howard is talking about.... there are more variables then just raw power.

Mark K1LSB

But that's not what you said in your earlier post that Howard replied to. You effectively said that a 500 watt difference wouldn't really matter. And Howard replied that sometimes it could make the difference between making a contact or not. And he's right.

You are correct that there are other variables, but don't say that 500 watts won't make an effective difference. Just because you can't (or won't) justify the extra cost doesn't mean that others shouldn't.

on5po

Patrick

Hi Mark, look I know what said, so not sure what context you are interpreting . You have to understand that my operating conditions are not Howard’s conditions. This is part of why I stated that one has to analyze all the variable, such as antenna type, gain, hight above the earth, propagation on any particular day, location of the person being worked, and the list goes on. Power is not everything in working any particular station. Just to double check that my comments had merit. I looked at my log for the last 9 months, about 2000 contacts and looked at the receiving station report of my signal. I only found 4 contacts worked that where -22 or less. 2 of which were at 100 watts, and the other 2 at 500 and 1000 watts. On the vast majority of other contacts operated over 80, 40, 20, 17, 15, 12 and 10 meters signal reports were between -18 and +19 dB SNR. There is one other factor we need to deal with. That is the correlation of comparing power dB with SNR dB. They do not necessarily track each other in a linear way. RX AGC and other factors on the receive side may skew the SNR. So that 1.76 dB power advantage may not show up on the RX end. And may not matter. If one is getting -24 sig report running 1500 watts chances are the end station will copy you even at only 1000 watts. Actually reality shows that under such conditions that propagation is marginal at best and even if you hypothetically increased to 2000 watts, it is simply Mother Nature over power. All this is based on my own data, my own operating conditions. You and Howard and all others doing what we do will all be different. There are no absolute answers as all are operating conditions are different and no solution will be the same for all.

KY6LA_Howard

@Pat

I tend to like to pursue the very weak ones as those invariably are the interesting DX.. 

Probably 40% of my Q's are -22 receive or worse.   They are usually the little guys in small countries, running **** antennas, using signal link type sound card interfaces on legacy radios.  Hardly anyone far away gets back to them and their receive situations are so poor, that you need to be at least -16 for them to hear you.

I have a SteppIR Monster (13dBi) @85' about 600'ASL about a mile from the Pacific with an unobstructed view to the west.  Running 1.5KW (albeit my SPE will only sustain 1.2KW),, I have an ERP in excess of 10KW.   Yet still those weak but interesting Q's have a hard time copying me or anyone else.

So while there are many factors such as propagation, etc that weigh in on a successful Q, POWER HELPS A LOT

Patrick

Howard, I do not disagree with you on that, I have also worked many of those type of stations. For myself, I do well with my Log at 42 feet and elevation of 480 feet. The 5000 foot mountain in back of me still gives me a fairly low take off angle. Enough to do Europe ok. But to work anyone on any band I need at least 2400 miles of range. So far on 80 meters I see a max range of about 9000 miles, even with a apex of only 30 feet. As for the other bands have done long path many times . To add, my reason for not going with the PGXL is mostly financial, balanced with acquired capability. Good luck on your DX quest....