I'm A Bit Disappointed in V2.0

Ernest

Well said Rhet!
- -... ...- -

Ken - NM9P

What some are forgetting is that what is coming out is version 2.0, with the emphasis on the '0'. This is the foundation for a number of additional V.2.X releases which should have additional features and improvements. Tim has already stated on the Community that Multi-Client is one feature to which they are committed. The value of 2.X cannot be evaluated solely on what is in 2.0. But as always, if the menu is not appealing, then one can either pass, or wait until the second course.

Rick Hadley - W0FG

The top 1% of auto manufacturers seem to do that quite well, and companies like Bentley, Jaguar, and McClaren don't offer upgrades after you've made your initial purchase.

Rich McCabe

I am happy with the Flex as-is, but in 3 years of owning a 6000 series, Flex has made few upgrades that help my operating style. 

I have come to the conclusion that I am a minority rag chewer in the Flex Contesting and Remote operator crowd. I am glad Flex is listening and providing what the bulk of users want. That's fantastic.

But I am hoping the introduction of M radios will draw in more of "my kind" LOL. I have to admit I like gadgets. Things like integrating spots, band plans on the panafall and easier implementation for 3rd party hardware panels (like power genius) are all things I would like to see.

Mark WS7M

I also spent close to 25 years in a small 7 person company that did many "impossible" things with software and systems we created, many were one-off's which makes it a little easier since nothing was "production" and dealt with those issues.

We were almost always ahead of schedule.  We had some rare cases of being late but it was usually a couple weeks. 

And no... we didn't overly inflate our delivery estimates because with one-off type systems you usually don't get paid until you deliver.  So we had a lot of pressure to deliver on time and in budget.

I will admit also to some very long weekend's "getting it done" sometimes for weeks in a row.

Rich McCabe

Rick, switch to what?  Even if I was overly disgruntled with Flex what would I buy? I have been buying top of the line radios for years and I don't see anything on the horizon that will replace my flex. 

My 6500 although lacking in some of the features I would like is by far my favorite radio. I will be even happier when my 6600m arrives even though snap out windows is the only software feature that I will be able to take advantage of. Now having a second SCU is a different story.

Some of Flex Radio's issues are growing pains. 5 years ago Flex was some odd computer radio and now in my eyes they have pushed Kenwood out of the big 3 group. More growing pains to follow. More improvements to follow.

Michael Starkey

rick, so are you saying the takeaway for the other 99% of users now is "**** you" for not having more cash for new toys like the 6600M and PGXL?

btw: prestige brands like Bentley got to that position by never releasing half-baked products over nearly 100 years. Their customers are exceptionally demanding and discerning buyers that would instantly take a car back to the dealer simply because the walnut dash had the smallest almost invisible imperfection. The dealer then replaces it without cost or hassle simply to preserve brand loyalty. If Flex get to that status with ssdr and the maestro designed-in flaws they'll have something to crow about.

Peter K1PGV

Are we seriously debating whether software projects can be delivered on a predefined schedule... on a ham radio community board? Take this discussion to Slashdot and see where it gets you. :-) It's a silly debate, because the only real answer is "it depends." Sure, you can deliver stuff on time. ALMOST all the time. IF that's the most important parameter of the project. I can't begin to list the number of project milestones I've delivered on time or early, but cut a feature or two... or made something "provisional" or "preview" (code for "implemented and sort of works, but not really"). In terms of the roadmap: The way software usually works these days, is you don't define the features of releases far in advance, never mind announce them. We don't announce the features in any releases other then the "next" scheduled one at my company. Beyond that, we have ideas and intentions, but no firm plans. The world is just moving too fast to allow you do do long term roadmap planning. Because, just when you announce your roadmap for a year out, you'll unfailingly discover some "must have" feature and you're stuck. Either you don't do it and stick to your roadmap, or you trash the roadmap and add the feature. Either way, you annoy somebody. So... no roadmaps. Peter K1PGV

Peter K1PGV

Are we seriously debating whether software projects can be delivered on a predefined schedule... on a ham radio community board? Take this discussion to Slashdot and see where it gets you. :-) It's a silly debate, because the only real answer is "it depends." Sure, you can deliver stuff on time. ALMOST all the time. IF that's the most important parameter of the project. I can't begin to list the number of project milestones I've delivered on time or early, but cut a feature or two... or made something "provisional" or "preview" (code for "implemented and sort of works, but not really"). In terms of the roadmap: The way software usually works these days, is you don't define the features of releases far in advance, never mind announce them. We don't announce the features in any releases other then the "next" scheduled one at my company. Beyond that, we have ideas and intentions, but no firm plans. The world is just moving too fast to allow you do do long term roadmap planning. Because, just when you announce your roadmap for a year out, you'll unfailingly discover some "must have" feature and you're stuck. Either you don't do it and stick to your roadmap, or you trash the roadmap and add the feature. Either way, you annoy somebody. So... no roadmaps. Peter K1PGV

Ria

That's correct. The maintenance release will have the bugs that were fixed in 2.0 minus the new features. This has been said over and over here but I guess it has to be said again.

Ria

I think that's exactly what Flex is doing. They may not align perfectly with the feature set you or anyone wants but they aren't simply bringing new ideas no one wants. Pop out panadapters (multi monitor support) has been requested by quite a lot. Remote operation was the #1 requested feature and is a pretty big deal these days. I know I've gotten many a request for assistance for that, and some of my friends who have other radios are extremely envious at the remote capability. And again, this is just the beginnning. Multi client is one feature announced for the future. Other stuff will come too. Of course, if you're happy as-is or none of these new features interest you then you can put away your credit card.

Mike VE3CKO

The reason a "plan" isn't published has been beat to death here many times. Competitive reasons, and for the same reasons we have not been told aliens live among us, some here can't handle the truth. OK, aliens bad example but some do  panic when their feature didn't make the cut in the next release, some make wild accusations that false promises were made and trolls come out from under their bridges and the flaming wars begin again.

Mike VE3CKO

You mean the problem that Flex kept blaming on W10 time after time spanning more than a year, now we need to pay upgrade $ to get the bug actually fixed. Not what I call an upgrade.

Steve - G1XOW you don't miss an opportunity to take a shot at Flexradio. You are well aware this issue was caused by a Microsoft update and you are also well aware of of this fix will be part  of the maintenance release, of which you are well aware of will be FREE. Why would you purposely make a statement as you did?  Oh, maybe to get attention, I don't know but I"m calling you out on it. Your negative comments like this are totally unnecessary. This reply is not a personal attack on you personally, but certainly is an honest reaction to what seems to me to be an untruthful post meant to stir up the community.

Tony Taddeo

"Lets hope they can stay in business by only serving the very top 1% of the pyramid"

Flexradio only satisfying 1% of its consumers just doesn't hold water, so any justification based on this probably doesn't serve any purpose.

Overtime my Apple IPhone has crashed a few times, batteries have gone flat unexpectedly and not started properly, but I still consider the product of merchantable quality that provides me value. I believe even pacemakers fail occasionally (ouch). 

Most of the amateur radios I have owned over the past 35 years have had a glitch here and there. We want it cheaper and we want it faster. Can we afford or wait for the perfect product?

Every organisation has time-to-market pressures. I for one appreciated that Gerald held back version 2.0, even after pressure by the user group, until it met their minimum quality level.

One or 2 more sleeps, so lets be happy..

Richard - MW0XDT

Interesting points, as always , raised. I find myself, like Paul, slightly underwhelmed by the 'first course' offering. I was hoping for more that would tempt me. I had discussed with others, in excited anticipation, that "I wouldn't be surprised if a few 'gems' have been held back for the V2 release" However it appears I was being a little optimistic. That said, I am still blissfully happy with my 6500, (despite a hardware fault that meant I was without it for 2 months, while it flew to Germany then Texas and back to me via Germany!) It's the best radio I've ever used. Yes, there are things I'd change in SSDR, but it's still great! I am dissapointed with the 'first course' ingredients as I have no desire to work remotely, or indeed leave my precious 6500 plugged in. There seem to be improvements to both 6300 and 6700, but no mention of the 6500. So, with none of those hoped for 'gems' included, no, I won't be investing in V2.0...but as mentioned above, I will simply wait until a few features appear that fit my needs (many of them already well documented by others)....and there is a great feature in itself, no requirement to upgrade. Despite my dissapointment, I'm sure I speak for many others when I say, I am very grateful for the continued development by the FRS team and excited for what the future may bring. I look forward to reading comments from those using V2.0 within this great community...In the meantime...I'm just gonna fire up on 40m, with a radio that's still hard to beat...even without V2.0! :-)

Ria

Compared with other mfgs, Flex has been more forthcoming with new releases of hardware and software features. However it has come at the cost of angry customers (and non-customers, oddly enough). So I don't blame them for paring this back a bit, and not giving firm dates for new features. 

Apple does this So does Icom, Kenwood, Yaesu, Elecraft... even Baofeng and TYT. 

Mike VE3CKO

I would love to see a more flexible GUI, colors/font size etc. at almost 60  I must use a magnifying glass to use the Maestro. Saying that, I totally understand a vast majority of users wanted what is now SmartLink. A huge milestone for Flex and they will reap the rewards with tons of new sales with lots of new first time Flex users.
In my little world these four features below are today what is important to me:

1. editable GUI in both SmartSDR and Maestro
2. Antenna Genius control from Maestro
3. Memory control by a knob (turn a knob to select from stored memory)
4. adjustable/resizable Clock on Maestro

Notice I didn't take a shot at Flex for not seeing to my needs, it's not about me. I can handle it when I'm told your feature isn't as important as other features. For example even though I've had the Maestro and Antenna Genius for a while now, I still have to run to shack when I want to change antennas on a band. I can accept that there are not a vast majority of Flex users who need that feature and I heard it's coming later in 2017. I want it now, but I can wait, it's only radio.

Michael Starkey

Ria, while Flex concentrates almost exclusively on the headline grabbing stuff like remote there will continue to be a large ground swell of unhappy users. Those users only want to see a tiny amount of effort on pretty small stuff, but its the stuff that matters to them, that is why so many on this post are feeling neglected.

Bill -VA3WTB

Ria, I was around when they gave aprox dates and features, It was just horrible how many in the community treated Gerald and staff. Slander?

People must understand, as Gerald has pointed out in the past, he learned from it and will not do it again. Who can blame him.

This is one problem with the Flex team being available to everyone on the community un-like any other company in this market, They are easy to reach, an easy target, they all hang out here with all of us.

The second point, there is a group here that waits for any chance to complain, about almost anything at all as if their comments help. It is the same people every time.

It is also clear, that some are not understanding what V.2 is about. Perhaps Flex can explain this. This is a starting point to V.2 not the hole package, so if a feature does not grab you now, then wait till later when more are developed.

Wan was by far the single most wanted feature by owners. Flex listened and delivered.

Mike VE3CKO

Michael, I think the key point is perspective. Where you perceive remote as a headline grabbing and the majority are being overlooked, Flex goes by the numbers and remote was the #1 feature request, you may not like it but them are the facts and you can't alter the facts to fit your perspective. Remote was not at all on the top of my list, I will use it.
As per "why so many on this post feeling neglected"  again, perspective. I can guarantee you there are multiple times more people who are satisfied that do not post, than there are those who feel neglected. You can safely assume not all users have joined this community and of the ones who do use this community, there are those who have issues and looking for a solution and those who want to help. So naturally you are going to see more issue oriented posts, that is the purpose of this community.

Ken - NM9P

Mike.  
I have a simple way of switching between three different antennas without being in the shack.  It is a workaround, yes, but it works until I can afford and implement a more elegant solution.

I can put my main tower lead on ANT1 and my vertical on ANT2.
I have an Ameritron ACS4 remote switch on the main tower lead in order to switch between my Log Periodic, OCF Dipole, and Inverted L antennas.  I have the RCS4 set so that I leave it on the position for the Log Periodic, and the Dipole is on position 4.  When the power supply for the remote antenna switch is removed, it defaults to position 4 (the Dipole).  Now I have a NEO WiFI power switch (about $25) to control the power supply for the ACS4.  So now, I can switch between the Log Periodic and Dipole Antenna  with a simple utility on my iPhone or iPad.  There are Android apps too.  So I can select any of three TX/RX antennas either via SSDR for Windows or IOS, or by using my iPhone app.

The next project likely be a USB 8-port relay adapter that I will be able to control via the 6500's USB port which will take the place of the ACS4 control head and allow me to link any of the 4 antennas to the desired bands from within SSDR.  Alternately, I may come up with a simple driver for one of those $10 Raspberry Pi's that will do the same thing over WiFi.

Longer term, I hope to replace the ACS4 with an Antenna Genius 2x8 switch and use 2 feedlines to the tower.  But that is a more expensive solution for another day - after I upgrade my 6500 to a 6600, etc.

Ken - NM9P

Bill, you are correct.  V.2.0 laid the foundation for a lot of other work that will be done.  Building many of the desired features, like GUI enhancements, multi-client ability to run SSDR and Maestro or IOD devices concurrently, DSP enhancements, and others required laying this foundation first.

We already have heard enough people complaining and expressing disappointment at how long V.2.0 took to release.  Can you imagine the furor if FRS had waited to release it until many of these other things were added first?  

First lay the new foundation, install the plumbing and wiring, build the solid first floor, then finish the rooms and add the trim.
It would not have made sense to delay V.2.0 in order to trim out V.1.10.16, when the things done for V.2.0 will enhance the trim work for V.1.10.

V.2.0 is just the foundation, plumbing, wiring, etc.
There will be additional releases in V.2.X.X that should add additional rooms, and fit & trim.  But you can't trim the windows until they are installed.

Mike VE3CKO

Thanks Ken. I have a new unopened RCS4 that I keep forgetting to put up for sale. Switching bands automatically is covered already with Antenna Genius (AG). You can even assign a frequency range to select a specific antenna, make up your own bands, that's handy. That works fine but if I want to switch antennas on a band for example 40m where I have a few antenna options I can't do that from the Maestro. I could easily login via Team Viewer, cell phone to desktop to gain control of AG but practically to do that through the night when I periodically wake up and tune to another band and search for QSO to put me to sleep again, too much work, ha, ha. Actually 4o3a is suppose to release an android app to do just that but my understanding is they are awaiting some code Flex has to introduce first.

Michael Aust

With the Sun Spots almost nonexistent maybe all these complainers should use 
using Virtual Ham Radio with different skins via the Internet, visual knobs, etc 

HamSphere is your answer !

Steve G1XOW

Mike, I am sorry for upsetting your sensibilities but the VSP driver was stated by Tim to be a v2.0 upgrade "feature". No matter how I squint I cannot find a way to view a long standing defect resolution to be considered as a new feature. A welcome and long awaited bug fix yes, a new feature nope.

You also want to look at the subtle engineering differences between symptom and cause because they ain't the same!   My understanding from the VSP driver supplier (it gets used on many other non-Flex apps) is that the root cause is that the driver is not terminating correctly at shutdown, thus the VSP ports are left in a limbo state. W10 does not know nor expect to handle that exceptional and erroneous condition.

Rick Hadley - W0FG

Michael, if you believe that "btw", I have only two words. Lucas Electrics.

Norm - W7CK

I'm also a happy Flex owner.  I've had my 6700 for over 4 years now and love it.  The performance is amazing.  But like Rich said, I have also come to the conclusion that I am a minority rag chewer in what appears to be a Flex Contesting and Remote operator crowd.  I really had no idea that the majority of folks in ham radio were into contesting.  I personally never found much fun in exchanging 599 your #1022 73's.  But that's what makes this hobby so great is that there is something for everyone and I'm glad Flex listens to its customer base and focuses on their needs.

With that said, I have felt that some of the things that are important to me, a rag chewer, have been left.  Not only left out but its beginning to look like some of them may never get addressed. 

The list is pretty long but some of the things that I personally wanted to see were: 

* An improved GUI (the current color scheme makes it very hard for me to see some of the controls and meters).  The metering is pretty archaic.
* An operational squelch. Nearly every time I've seen someone mention this, the community jumps on the poster and defends Flex for not focusing on such a trivial unnecessary feature.  Even Gerald made it clear to me that he and the Flex community doesn't use squelch which tells me it may never happen. I bought my 6700 because it included 2 meters and has the ability of opening 8 panadapters.  For me, the current squelch just doesn't work very well and it is FM only.  I don't work much FM but even when I do, the current FM squelch is terrible.  You have to have the gain up pretty high to listen to FM compared to SSB and the squelch sporadically opens and every time it does there is a terrible screech that comes out of the speakers that is much louder than the actual FM voice signal.  I know there are ways to reduce the noise when multiple pan adapters are open and I already them as well as DDUTIL, but I was hoping that after nearly 5 years Flex would have addressed this.
* Noise mitigation still needs improvement.  Enough said.
* Fixing the 2m HF glitch that causes the bands to get all messed up when trying to make a band change when you have multiple panadapters open. SCU control seems to get mixed up. Very frustrating for those using 2m on a 6700.
* Still currently no way to permanently adjust both or either the RX/TX Frequency Offsets for 2m on the 6700.  It makes using 2m on the 6700 a bit frustrating. It appears no one else wants this and none of the newer 6000 series rigs have 2m built in so it doesn't look like this will ever get addressed.
* Band edges for new hams would be a nice and somewhat easily implemented feature.
* FlexControl should have the ability to press a single button and toggle through the slices making each one active as well as making it the TX slice.
* The ability to keep a slice centered in SmartSDR while tuning


Extras that would be nice to see someday:
* An auto IDer that could be triggered every 10 minutes would be nice. rag chewers would like it but not a contesters desired feature
* Operating temperature of rig displayed within SmartSDR
* The ability to save recordings for later playback
* Pure Signal I know is on the roadmap but that doesn't tell me anything.  It might be 1 year or it might be 5 years.  No way to tell

* CW to me is the use of a key, paddle, or bug.  I do use CWX occasionally to call CQ but that's about it.  It would have been nice to deliver the sidetone at the remote PC.   I have my Flex in a different room from my operating position and it requires me to run a very long cable for my key and my headset all the way back to the rig just so I can operate CW.  Contesters don't operate this way so I doubt it will ever happen.  The fix is to buy a Maestro (didn't work well even after a year of ownership) or use CWX.  Once again, cw to me is the use of a key, bug or paddle.  Otherwise its just another digital mode like PSK31.  Unfortunately for me, is that not many Flex users feel this way.  I'll have to look into WinkeyerUSB or equivalent.

* Not SSDR related: The Maestro was nice, but I couldn't believe I had to remove the battery every time I wanted to charge it.   The speaker was horrible so I ended up selling mine.  I'm hoping for an improved version. One maybe with the ability to use 186503.7v li-ion batteries.  Easy to obtain and charge.

Like I said, I love my 6700.  It is by far the best receiver I've ever owned.  I just wish some of the items on the list that aren't contest related would be addressed sooner than later.   An improved squelch that also includes all mode operation, fix the 2m SCU issues and a permanent 2m TX/RX offset adjustment in particular.

Michael Aust

FlexSphere SSDR coming soon !

Mike VE3CKO

fix the 2m SCU issues and a permanent 2m TX/RX offset adjustment in particular.

Holy **** Norm, your absolutely right, how could I miss the 2m issues. It is a pain the **** to have to manually adjust offsets every time I open up 2m. Should be top priorty 6700 fix.  Being distracted by the negative Nancy's.

Michael Coslo

Amazing that people don't like software they haven't even seen yet.