How much Output Power out of Power Genius XL Amp with 110VAC versus 220VAC input

Michael Aust

How much Output Power out of Power Genius XL Amp with 110VAC versus 220VAC input 

73
Mike

Michael Coslo

Usually the same, you just draw twice the current from the lines. So much better to put in the 240 volt line.

MarkN7MHB

I think I read somewhere where if on 120 its only 1KW.  I haven't been able to find it again so I could be wrong

Tim - W4TME

Mark is correct.  It is ~1KW

Michael Coslo

Okay, could be. Full legal is very taxing on a normal 115 Volt circuit. You'd probably want a 30 amp circuit.

Ria

Nope. It's limited to protect the power supply and your wiring. 

Ria

Yep. And if you're installing a 30A 120v circuit, you might as well just install a 240v 20A circuit. There is really nothing that uses 30A at 120v. Most high drain appliances such as dryers, air conditioners and electric stoves will use a 240v circuit (208v in NYC or buildings with 3⌀ wiring). 

Milen KG2C

There's and exceptional to that. My electrician told me that 240v is simply not available in the building so the only thing he could do is give me a 120v 30A dedicated line to the amp. I don't know how correct he is but it seems a waste to run such a nice amplification on 120v.

MarkN7MHB

You still get 1KW and thats 10X better then 100w

Larry W0NQW

Along this same line, what type of 220V plug is used on the amp.  I am installing a new 220v line to get ready for the amp, but do not know what outlet to install.

MarkN7MHB

there are a couple different types of 220 plugs.  get the specs for what comes with it.  Not sure if the spec sheet is that detailed yet.

Larry W0NQW

I know about the different plugs/outlets, that is why I am asking.  I have not seen anything published, but am sure there are testers/developers that know the type of outlet that is required. 

Ned K1NJ

  Larry,
              A plug is not supplied with the amp.  Ask the electrician installing the
220 service to recommend an outlet and plug combination.  Tell him what
you are doing and perhaps he will supply one for you.

          Enjoy your new amp.,
                                                  Ned,  K1NJ


                       

Larry W0NQW

Thanks for the info.  I will wait until I get amp and read the manual to find out the AC current  requirement.  I am installing the line myself (legal where I live).

Tim - W4TME

You know this is addressed in the New Product FAQ.
https://community.flexradio.com/flexradio/topics/new-flexradio-products-faq

What are the power requirements for producing full legal limit RF power output?
A power rating of 20A @ 220 VAC (50 or 60 Hz) is required to produce full RF output.  The amplifier will operate on 110 VAC, but full RF power output cannot be achieved. Please consult a licensed electrician before installing any new electrical service.

KY6LA_Howard

@Milen

If you are in the USA, the NORMAL supply is 240V to your service panel.  This is split into 2 x 120V legs with a Neutral in between. 

I suspect that what your electrician may be telling you is that one of the 120V legs in the service panel is full so he has no room to install a breaker across two legs for 240V.

Frankly the wire size for 20A @240V is a 12/3 Romex wire @250' = $108

While for 30A @120V is a 10/2 Romex wire @250' = $118

So the costs of materials will be the same.

The only other thing I can think of that might cause the 120V restriction is that you are fed from a 110V Metering Subpanel so it would require a new subpanel to get 240V

Question:  Do you have a Electric Stove or Electric Dryer?

Ria

Milen, I see you live in Queens. Your electrician is correct since NYC is 3 phase distribution (I think it is the only locale in the USA with 3 phase being standard for residences). Therefore 240v with two hots and a neutral is not available. I believe you may be able to get 208v, however using 2 legs of the 3 phases which is used in some places. A lot of 240v equipment will run just fine on 208v and in fact some of it is designed for dual voltages. I believe the PGXL's switching power supply should work fine on 208v. 

KY6LA_Howard

@Ria

I did not realize that there were any 3 phase residential power systems still in use in the USA... Learned something new.today.

BTW... 3 Phase residential services are quite common in the EU (UK and Germany)  so I suspect that the PowerGenius will be able to perform Ok on 208V

Ria

It comes with bare leads. You choose the plug. I would recommend getting a NEMA 6-20R installed, which accepts either a 15 or 20 amp 240V straight blade plug. You can get a twist lock if you want as well but they're really unnecessary unless it's in a high foot traffic environment or an environment subject to shock and vibration.

Interestingly enough, I believe the amp comes with an IEC C20 type receptacle on the power supply chassis and you can get a molded cord set with an appropriate plug on the end. Digikey sells them. I have a few left over from old storage arrays with a 6-20 plug on the end.

Ria

Ria

Yes, it should be because Japan is 100/200V as well. Most switching power supplies accept a continuous range from about 90-250v, 47-63Hz so it accepts all residential voltage and frequency with some headroom built in. 

Larry W0NQW

Thanks a bunch.  I missed that.  I will now get my outlet installed and so I will be ready to pug it in upon arrival.

Ria

Get a NEMA 6-20R installed with 12 gauge wire and a double pole 20A breaker.  This way you can use either a 15A or 20A plug in the outlet. No neutral is needed with this kind of receptacle, only the two hots and an earth. 

Milen KG2C

Thanks, Ria and Howard. Yes I also had read that 240V should be a common option available in the US (for washers and driers) and when I told him that, he said this is not the case in this building because it is not provided by the power company so there's nothing that could be done on our end.
I didn't know about the 208V option so I will ask him next time I see him. I currently have an AL-80B and my main reason for not even considering an upgrade to 1,5kW was because I thought that 240V is absolutely required for full power output and smooth running of the amp.

Ria

BTW the 3 phase in Europe is 400v (classified, in reality it is about 380v), not 230v. For residences you are not getting that installed. Each circuit is single phase at 230v. So the distribution is 3 phase but you only get 1 of those phases. If you want 3 phase you'll likely have to pay the commercial rate. 

Similarly in NYC it is 3 phase distribution but homes are wired for 1 or 2 (3 wire 120/208) of the phases if they have things like central air that needs 208v. 

( I have spent way too much time in server rooms...)

Ria

Ria

Milen, I would ask, but depending on how old your building is it may not be available. He is correct in that it would require a service upgrade from Con Ed if it is not wired already. That is thou$ands. 

NYC is really an island unto itself.  

Varistor

How much power the amp can deliver very much depends on the quality of the power supply. A friend and I are building a solid state amp based on a pair of 1K80 transistors. The optimum drain voltage turned out to be 65V so that we can optimize the output transformer using commercially available coax wire (e.g., 18 Ohm) and ferite toroids. In this configuration the amp delivers 2.7 KW before it goes into compression. No time limit...measured over decades, not hours. So to achieve this level of performance we ended up buying a Chinese switching power supply that delivers 6000W over a very wide range of input voltage, including 110V. Don't think many commercial amp manufacturers go into this type of engineering.

Peter K1PGV

Thank you Ria, for the education on residential power systems. I *lived* in NYC and didn't know the info you provided about 3 phase systems in NYC. And I'm the kind of person who typically absorbs this type of trivia. Thank you! Peter K1PGV

Ria

I lived in 3 boroughs - Manhattan, Queens and Brooklyn. Was never happier to get out, even if it was to NJ.

However I worked for a state Gov't contractor and we would install servers in datacenters across the city, hence why I know this stuff about power systems. 

Ria

Milen KG2C

So I guess it must look something like this, except I don't get all three w/o an expensive upgrade.

Ria

That's correct. It's 120/208. Around here only commercial customers like fast food outlets, supermarkets and gas stations have it, as well as larger buildings like churches.

Ria

6KW on a 110v circuit is impractical on most house wiring I think.