Lockup issue and V2.0 / V1.11

David Livingston

RIA,

What do you call a minimum number of lockups??? When I am running remotely I can not tolerate any issues with the radio locking up. No one will be at my home to do a hard reboot of the Flex radio. No problem rebooting the computer, but that does not fix the Flex locking up issue which you confirmed it was in the radios firmware.

PS mine locked up twice yesterday during the ARRL DX contest

If version 2.xx does not fix the problem I will be asking for a replacement of my 6700 under warranty as it appears I have a radio that gives this problem to only a very small group of owners.

KY6LA_Howard

Out of curiosity... V1.09 works,

But V1.10 Locks Up occasionally in an irreproducible manner for a very few people.

(None of the many Alpha's have ever seen it and we get to test lots of buggy stuff)

Why do they not just revert to V1.09 and enjoy their radios until V2.0 is released and they can test to see if it solves their problems?

Perhaps I am missing something but I really do not understand the urgency to go from 1.09 to 1.10

Example...

My current 2015 Model S Tesla has 1 autodrive camera and surrounding sensors which enable Level 3 Auto-drive. -- it makes driving to LA painless...

2017 Model S Tesla has 8 cameras for Level 5 Autodrive. 

While V8.2 Tesla Software can enable Level 5 Autopilot on 2017 models, my car is stuck at V8.1 on Level 3 because it lacks cameras to be fully autonomous

HOWEVER My Level 3 Autodrive Tesla is already far more advanced (really cool) than any other equivalent car on the road and while I would love Level 5 - my car wont do it..

I just have to wait until 2018 when my lease is up to be able to try the new features.

How is this any different?

David Livingston

Version 1.09 does not allow the USB ports to operate. I purchased a SPE 2K with the correct USB cable from SPE. The upgrade to use the USB ports is only supported in the latest release of SmartSDR. As long as the Flex continues to operate it works flawlessly on all bands and slices. I love the interface with the USB ports on the Flex, but these continuing locks are a serious issue with me.

mikeatthebeach .

Also have the 2K-FA here and same issue
Mike

Bill -VA3WTB

Since Flex has not been able to duplicate this problem,,and none of the Alpha's have seen it,,and only about 1% of customers see it, it would have been great if a customer could have sent their radio in to Flex and have them see it happen. then maybe they could find something out.

Al_NN4ZZ

HI Howard,

RE: "Why do they not just revert to V1.09 and enjoy their radios until V2.0 is released and they can test to see if it solves their problems?
Perhaps I am missing something but I really do not understand the urgency to go from 1.09 to 1.10"

I get the lock but only if I use the tuner, so I quit using it.  (seems like there is some timing issue in the firmware that causes the lockup in my case) but to your question.  I used to use DDUtil to control my amplifier and antenna switches.  With V1.10.x I converted all the peripheral control over to the USB feature.   

Going back to DDtil is more trouble that it is worth since I can figured out that not using the tuner fixed the problem for me.  Others may also not want to revert if they are also using the USB port feature. 

Regards, Al / NN4ZZ  
al (at) nn4zz (dot) com
SSDR / DAX / CAT/ 6700 -  V 1.10.16
Win10

Bill -VA3WTB

Then that is the short answer. If people do not want to revert, then just wait and see..simple,,all done

KY6LA_Howard

I have a 2K-FA also

BUT the USB interface which only gives you band data is totally inadequate.

So I continue to use DDTUIL which gives me FULL CONTROL of the SPE which includes Power On/Off, Band Data, Input and Output Antenna Switching and Power level controls

DDUTIL works FLAWLESSLY and has done so for years.

So basically what you are saying is that you would rather have the very limited USB Band Data of V1.10 rather than the FULL Control of the SPE with DDUTIL and V1.09

Does not make much sense to me to want to downgrade (limit) the control of the SPE with V1.10  The very limited USB band data control is Sort of like having a car that you can steer but can't push the accelerator or brakes.

KY6LA_Howard

Hi Al

Yes.. USB seems simple and elegant...BUT

As you know I remote much of the time so I need the FULL control that DDUTIL gives me for my SPE, SteppIR and Rotor.. and until that level of control is available via USB I have to stick to DDUTIL as it is far to dangerous to operate remote with only Band Data.

I understand that adding more control features to USB is under consideration but clearly no announced plans yet

I guess that they need to wait until v2 is released - close but no cigar

Andy M5ZAP

Exactly what I have been saying for a bit

Al_NN4ZZ

Hi Howard, Totally understand you need for more control capabilities than currently available in the USB feature. In my case for local operating I only need band data so the USB feature works for me . And eliminating a third party program simplifies things although I agree DDUTil is an excellent program and works very well. More control via the USB ports seems to go hand in hand with the remote WAN / Smartlink capability so it seems logical that remote users will "vote it up." Regards, Al / NN4ZZ

David Livingston

I find the USB cable I purchased from SPE works flawlessly. If there is something it does not do properly I can not find it. No problem with the tuner in the SPE all automatic. The SPE changes antennas (6) without additional switches. The SPE controls the power output from the flex in three preset modes of power - Low, Mid, or Max. Works flawlessly with the changing of slices and all bands.  Please tell me what does not work using the USB ports and proper cable... K4CAE... Also is DDtil ready for V2.**** of SmartSDR??? PS, I am only interested in controlling the SPE 2K-FA.

Bill W2PKY

Eric has stated that SSDR CANNOT crash the radio. So it seems to be the luck of the draw as to whether 1.10.16 will crash for some users or not for others. I had a lot of crashes and then they disappeared. Most users who have experienced crashes are not so lucky. But nothing has changed on my PC or the load of 1.10.16 into the radio. Some users need the additional features of 1.10.16 so downgrading is not an option.

David Livingston

Ria seems to of had lockups even on her alpha V2.****

Tony Taddeo

The only time I have had a reproducible lockup is due to user error when using Full Duplex mode (FDX) and not having sufficient isolation between the RX and TX antennas, resulting in an (understandable) RFI issue within my 6700.

It is easy to accidently have FDX on without knowing. Is this the cause of some of these lockups?

Ria

DDUTIL requires a running windows PC. It also doesn't offer the same flexibility for some situations as the USB cables.

Ria

not with the same frequency as 1.10. With that said, my experience is probably not going to mirror yours but let's hope 2.0 and 1.11 maintenance release will fix it.

David Livingston

Mine 6700 occasionally locks up just sitting idle for an extended period of time.  Like over night. A real pain trying to operate remotely. Requires a hard shutdown of the Flex and them a restart.

Ria

The only thing I would say DDUTIL does better is the SteppIR control and also tube amps using auto drive

NM1W

My lockups arent due to the FDX issue Tony raised; Like David I've had the rig shutdown just sitting there.  3 of my shutdowns in the last 4 days were within a half hour of turning the rig on and before I'd done any real xmitting.

The hassle of the lockup is having to restart the apps on windows (or at least kick them to relook for a rig out there); ssdr, frstack, dx commander, etc..  and If I was running wsjtx/jtalert its always better to just reboot the pc than try to cleanup the mess..

Andy M5ZAP

Hi Ria Does that mean that you had a high frequency of lockups with 1.10 or even a low frequency of lockups

Al_NN4ZZ

Hi Ria,
Here is another place where DDUtil out shines the rest.

I used to use DDUtil to control one of my FlexControl knobs.  The MACRO capability from DDUtil was superior to what is offered in SSDR or SDR-Bridge.   You could program the buttons to do many neat things that are not available in SSDR.   But since that was the only thing I was using DDUtil for, I decided I could live without those features and eliminate running one more third party program.  

It would be nice to see SSDR offer that MACRO capability for the FlexControl.  Maybe some day...

Regards, Al / NN4ZZ  
al (at) nn4zz (dot) com
SSDR / DAX / CAT/ 6700 -  V 1.10.16
Win10

Paul M

Thanks to all that are altering me to a message but it truly not necessary.  I guess I should reinstate the RSS feed until this thread closes.

Michael-Yes, three specifically.  My normal computer that runs the radio, logging, WSJT-X and other programs. It runs Windows 7 Ultimate and it is an AMD.  A brand new windows 10 i5 with only the Windows operating system and SmartSDR and an i7 Laptop with Windows, minimal  other software, SSDR but no other logging  or Data programs, but it did have Office 13 installed.

I documented three types of crashes.   A Quit of SmartSDR  seemingly due to COM port issues. This always throws an error on screen and the SSDR does not stop until the error box is dismissed.  As long as I used the Com Name Arbiter program once or twice a day, move the Flexcontrol to a higher COM port ( COM240 and Green Heron controller to COM230) I can keep those to a minimum.  The second is a freeze of the 6500 but SSDR does not quit or freeze.  The radio will not shutdown unless you do a long button push or a power down of the power supply;s sometimes it is only a power down that works.  If you do not reboot the computer the radio may not show in the chooser when the radio comes back online.   The third has a tone, the radio will not shutdown with the button, SSDR does not quit or freeze and never shows up if the computer is not rebooted, also.   

I have also changed power supplies and put the old supply om the bench to see if there were sags, or too much ripple.  While it was there I used an Alinco 330 switching supply but had the same issue. While the 70A Astron was on the bench I tested all the pass transistors,replaced two cracked mica, cleaned and properly pasted each.  Beside the variable pasted application which is normal with Astron supply's I found nothing wrong with  the supply and it runs rock solid.

I have run the radios directly connected to the computer to isolate the network, changed to a different switch, run it on an isolated network without internet access as well as our normal household network.  I found no difference in the freezing or stoppage.

Tim put logging software on but after the first crash he felt that they could not learn anything since it was a kernel crash and the logging did not significantly help. It was only there for the one crash.   Tim if I misstated please correct my statement.

The radio does not have to be in any particular mode but it seems to happen more in CW and Data, especially Data.    For the longest time I assumed it was a WSJT-X issue and not the radio.   I did downgrade to 1.9 but the tired of testing and after a few Flexcontrol errors I just gave up.   

The up time before crash is minutes, to days, to a little more than a week but never two weeks.   There does not seem to be a correlation between being off for an extended period of time or run for an extended period of time.  It has crashed in all three modes CW, Data, SSB (both U and L) and it does not seem to be band related.    There is not any correlation that I have found that causes multiple crashes in a row or just a single crash with an extended time before the next crash.

I have been repairing radios and formerly TV's since the mid 60's and still do repairs today for the local ham community on any radio that I can still see the parts.  This is less and less each day.  I lost count of how may HeathKits I built in the 60's but I did build the color TV when I was 16.   I have four patents related to SCSI drives and drive connectivity and have been around electronics as both a hobby and sometimes professionally for most of my life. 

If anyone needs any other information about the crashes just drop me a line at my call at arrl.net.  

Gerald-K5SDR

Paul,

Thanks for your respectful response.  We have made many bug fixes and code performance enhancements in v2 that we feel are likely but not guaranteed to resolve the lock up problem you are having.  We feel that getting v2 into the "wild" is the best way to find out.  Assuming success, then back porting v2 to v1.11 will be much more timely than looking for the needle in a haystack on v1.10.  If v2 does not resolve the issue, then we have to go back to looking for the needle.  

As to obsolescence since all FLEX-6000s share a common software architecture and SmartSDR continues to be enhanced, it extends the life through the ability to "get a new radio with each update."  I didn't make that up - customers did.  I use my 3 year old iPad every single day and I don't consider it obsolete because I add new apps all the time and most of them get automatic updates all the time.  It does everything I need and gets more useful all the time.  I just got a new update of SmartSDR for iOS on my iPad this afternoon.

Andy,

Fact correction new hardware has taken virtually no resources away from software development to date.  They run the same SmartSDR.  Yes, v2 has taken resources but those resources have been applied to bug fixes and performance enhancements on the evolving code base.  That work we hope will fix the problems you are having.  We won't know until we get it out there.  

73,
Gerald

Ria

With 1.10 release version my experience was similar to yours although not multiple times per week. More like once a week. There could be multiple things at play though. For example I am not using USB cables anymore (sold my amp, getting a power genius). That could factor in but I'm not really sure. Either way this variation is why Gerald wants to release 2.0 first then when that is proven and stable the dev team will backport the fixes to the 1.x branch (not the exact process but you get the idea). So understand they have a method to all of this.

Ria

The RF feeding back into the rig and locking it up is entirely different. This lockup just happens and nobody really knows what caused it to happen.

(Don't feed too much RF back into your rig. Use FILTERS.)

Tony Taddeo

I only use FDX mode when making audio adjustments using transverter level power. Occasional, I TX on an antenna by accident at normal power levels - my bad...(smile)

There was at least one person having lockup issue while using the antenna tuner. TXing while FDX on and not sufficient isolation between the RX and TX antennas?

"This lockup just happens and nobody really knows what caused it to happen."
Should we call a priest ?

The support given by Flex Radio is amazingly good for an amateur radio supplier. They will get to the bottom of it.

Tony
VK5TT

k3Tim

Maybe Gerald should put on the sack-cloth and crawl on his hands and knees from Austin to Dallas in the noonday sun while being flogged by 4 Vestal Virgins and chanting "debet figere cimex". 

I buy a ticket to see that.  

:-)

The FRS  support has been amazing with the prez posting over the holidays and updating as much as he can. Tim's support is also good with him and the folks out here answering questions quickly.
Once 2.0 hits I have a feeling it will be nice to have the networking experts that populate this group around.

Regards All
k3Tim

Bill -VA3WTB

During your long weekend, 4th of July weekend, some were telling Gerald to have a nice long weekend, he spent most of it on here it seems. I asked him if he is taking the weekend off, he replied, NOPE

Michael Coslo

Just as a differential diagnosis, would we bet our entire fortunes that it is not a software issue. 


And since it is not supposed to be anythign other than firmware, there are two options ( to my thoughts. Option one is that the IC that his firmware  is defective, and option two is that he and some other hams have a defective firmware burn. 

What am I not seeing here? Even if it cannot be reproduced, you would take a person who has the problem and by hook or by crook, replace the firmware and solve the problem. If that doesn't solve the problem.......


then again, if it isn't software, change out the radio and the problem is then a lock to go away, correct?