I can't belive: "This conversation is no longer open for comments or replies."

Rob Fissel

Lee, couldn't agree with you more on these comments. Very succinct and to the point (especially points 1,2 and 4).

The forums have become a little unbearable over the last few days with the complaining and whining. I can't think of any other major radio manufacture that supports a community-based online venue that would allow much of this conduct to persist on their hosted platforms. 

N6OIL

Well, I'll say something that won't win any popularity contests. If you're not happy with FRS sell your radio and stop speaking ill of the company and move on and our forums can get back enjoying our Flex radios.

Bill -VA3WTB

Roy, I was thinking of saying that, but the last thing I would want to do is suggest to people to buy something eles. Maybe Flex is not for them. Then they can wine on another site? about their products. Oh wait there is no one to complain to....
but really I believe these same guys who have very few positive things to say will not leave Flex. They say they are going to,,but they know their radio's are really good, they just stir things up when a chance comes along. how do I know this?,,because they hold close to this forum and can't let go....

Gerald-K5SDR

Enzo, 

I missed your second question.  On the 6600 when in SO2R mode the second receiver is NOT muted.  All FLEX-6000s have full duplex mode (FDX) where you can listen while transmitting.  Only the 6600 and 6700 have the ability to do SO2R in a single radio because they both have two SCUs with their own separate preselectors.  
Gerald

N6OIL

Bill my 6500 is 11 months old and am I **** hurt about the new rigs? no way that's called PROGRESS. Just yesterday I spent about 2 hours on the phone with OnStar asking about if Bluetooth upgrade would be available on my 2008 Duramax that I spent close to 60k on and they said the only way to get it is to buy a newer truck! I told them no thanks and disconnect my service since I'll be putting in a BlueStar module from CoStar in place of the OnStar unit at a cost of $279. Maybe it would be better if I went over to Reddit and pitched a fit like others have done here.   

Dave - W6OVP

My 1931 Chevy 5-passenger sedan did not have an automatic transmission. And no automatic choke, nor hydraulic brakes. The factory added these features and an electric windshield wiper (on both sides!) after I bought it, thereby devaluing my investment. I contacted the factory demanding compensation for my loss. But they just laughed.

Even worse, my Altair and Imsai computers went obsolete as quickly as next months edition of a computer magazine. And that phenomena went on for many years. Guess that's the danger of playing on the cutting edge of any technology.

Rick WN2C

I have been looking at the classifieds on QRZ on Eham and do not see any Flex equipment listed for sale listed after Dayton. So what is all the jabber-jawing about? Look, if you already own a Flex (pick a model) then you have one of the best radios out there. To say that "my radio is worth less" to day than it was last week is nonsense. If you go out and buy any radio new or used, it will be worth less tomorrow. Just look at it this way...you already have a great radio. Just think of the money you save by not going out and buying the latest K Y I. Oh and you could get a new radio for just $200.

Ken Hansen

Jerry, today is your lucky day! You said "I'll be very fortunate to get $1500 for it", well I'll happily give you $1,600 for your Flex-6500 assuming it is in fine working order, just let me know where to send the cashier' check. Eagerly awaiting your confirmation, Ken

Mike VE3CKO

I know of a few university campuses that have some "safe zones", where they can go and feel safe.

Lee - N2LEE

Rob, I do not want to appear to be a Flex fan boy but I am happy with the product I am using. Is there room for improvement, OF COURSE. And believe me I have my own list, especially in the area of the GUI.

But what drive me crazy is seeing people complain issues that every product, company or service has is some way.

I also spent 20+ years in product marketing for a company that with revenue of 3 million dollars and 11 years later were 2.2 Billion. So I know first hand how difficult it is to produce a product that 1st pleases everyone, 2nd the challenge of engineering vs customer and marketing requirements. Not to mention that you are always short of resources and realize you could sell twice as many products if you only had more X (money, people, engineers, etc).

I have never met a single employee from Flex or visited their facility but I can guarantee they are peddling as fast and as hard as they can. You can bet there are some long nights and weekends working to solve bugs or get a release out on time. There is no way they could have gotten this far without that kind of effort.

What they are doing is fricken HARD and they have very big players breathing down their neck. There is no way they are sitting around drinking coffee and playing cards.  I would venture to say that they all realize what is at risk and take these issues a lot more seriously than any of us.

So I guess my comments more from frustration that its easy to sit back and complain. Don't get me wrong, they deserve and want feedback but if its not real constructive feedback they can use to make a better mouse trap then its just noise. And reading the recent comments they are more like static crashes.

Giulio

Rick, with new models the old 6000s lost appeal. But, writing comments here is time wasting. Only you from K and VA have words of wisdom...and the TRADE UP PROGRAM. 

Enjoy ham radio!!!!!
Giulio

Tim - W4TME

Giulio,

I fully understand and can appreciate your frustration over the decrease in the resale price of the 6300 and 6500.  In particular, because there is not an equivalent type of trade in/up program available in Europe, which I suspect is partially due to VAT since a resale would be a taxable transaction and US state based sales tax, which has a lower rate, is not applied globally on certain inter-state sales transactions.  We have heard your concerns in this regard and will be engaging our distributors to explore ways to see if a trade in/up type of program would be feasible.

However, I disagree with your statement they have lost their appeal.  My belief is they have actually increased their appeal.  Let me explain. 

The FLEX-6300 is an excellent radio with a highly rated receiver and extensibility due to SmartSDR.  The intrinsic value of the radio is in SmartSDR which the radio still runs and will continue to run and receive updates because that is how we engineered SmartSDR from the beginning.  For the ham on a budget, getting a transceiver of its performance caliber second hand for less than the price of a 6400 and receiving the ability to add new features and software based performance upgrades with SmartSDR releases represents an incredible value. In addition, if panic selling ensues that drives the resale prices down, that appeal increases. 

I suspect that since there is elevated excitement over the new 6400s and 6600s right now, that there will be a lull in 6300 and 6500 sales as the market stabilizes.  Let's see what things look like in several months to see if my predictions come to fruition.

SteveJ

You need to look at the QTH.COM ads.  There were many Flex radios for sale the Dayton announcement.

Terry K7NY

My 6500 still works just fine.
K7NY
Terry

Tim - W4TME

I have looked at QTH.com. There are 4 FLEX-6300s for sale.  Only 1 was posted during or after Dayton.   

Appeal and resale value are two completely different things.

Terry K7NY

Looking forward to seeing the Flex group at SEA PAC.
K7NY

Lee - N2LEE

Giulio, I have to agree with Tim on this one. Right now is a great time to get a used Flex. If you don't need dual receivers or SO2R then the existing product line is still a fantastic radio.

From what I can tell from Gerald's video interview, the same specs and software features. So a Flex is a Flex. One might have a few extra bells but they all have the same whistles from what I can tell.

 

Steve (N9SKM)

You do know that SSDR software isn't going anywhere right? And that is what will update and fix issues right?

Steve (N9SKM)

Paying for a licence for each piece of equipment? Blasphemy!

Oh wait that is how most companies do it. Doesnt matter if i own both machines Rockwell isn't going to let me run a licenced copy of RsLogix on 2 without paying for it. Same as the majority of software setups.

Ned K1NJ

   As Flex has grown, so has the likelihood that a user might have more than one
Flex radio.  At this point that likelihood may increase significantly.  Some may want
to keep their older rig as backup, anticipating the day when Murphy's law kicks in
on the nice new one.  To many it would be an advantage to keep all rigs at the
same software level.  At this "turning point" for Flex and its customer base, the
concept of a site license might work.  Just as a suggestion, perhaps $200 for
the first copy and $100 each for subsequent copy could be amenable.

Ned,  K1NJ

 

Lee - N2LEE

Ned this is a standard software licensing model. Will Microsoft allow you to install Windows and as many machines that you own ? 

What if you sell your backup rig, are you willing to pay back them back for the discount your received ? 

Software licensing can be a nightmare to track and deal and the simpler it is the better for everyone.

Chris DL5NAM

Ria, i have gotten a upgrade from Icom directly for my TRX. Dont know was it the first time or last time also.  :-)

Ken Hansen

I bought my Flex-6300 a couple months ago because it represented a great value and a big step up in performance over my traditional HF radios, and because of my ability TODAY to control it remotely inside my house. I bought a refurb unit w/ 2 year warranty, and it cost me about as much as a new Flex-6400 WILL cost in several months, when they ship. The release of the new models do nothing to impact the performance of my radio going forward, but the release of the new SSDR software will improve my radio, if I decide I want/need the upgrade. My 6300 benefited from years of free upgrades during it's market life before I bought it, and I enjoy each of those improvements, and it will continue to benefit from them well into the future without opening my wallet. Selfishly, I would love it if free software updates were included for the warranty period of the radio., but I never expected that when I bought the radio.

Ned K1NJ

       Yes, this is in fact the most basic standard software licensing model.
And, yes, Microsoft has organized site licensing policies.  MATLAB
has several licensing structures based not only on group size, but on types of
usage.  Flex can mold their own policies to fit their desired outcome.  I'll bet that
if you left your rig or Maestro available on-line, they could find it and make modifications as necessary.  To the "system" the radio is the user; not the
individual.  Flex has a rig (and necessarily software) transfer policy for
ownership changes in place already.  N. B., I am not -pushing- this idea, just
suggesting a possibility.  With V2 in place, Flex could find every existing 6000
series rig that wants to be found.  I have a hunch that the V2 system will be
serial number aware.  Just sayin'.

Take Care,
Ned,  K1NJ

     

EA4GLI

@Rory, @Bill & @Rob, Why do you keep reading the posts you found so unbearable? Don't you also have the choice to not read them? So you buy a car brand, lets say Buick, and you buy the brand and always buy the same brand models.. Seems a great approach.... (sarcasm) People understand they can buy whatever they want, why is it that they have to be told over and over again that they can buy other brands? Do you really think FRS would prefer that they all follow your advice and start buying other brands just so you do not have to endure their messages on this forum? When you complain about the complainers, aren't you complaining as well? What makes your complaining any better? If you disagree with the tone or content and find the whole exercise repetitive then stop posting, and stop reading the forum for a while.

Bill -VA3WTB

The reason is..
It is always a good thing for customers express their concerns. Everyone has that option, and it's good. and with respect. But what happens many times is people keep hitting the same nail over and over as if they think it changes anything, or think that if they keep it up Flex will change their practices. And other times some, make comments that are simply not true, misleading info, or misunderstandings. Then Tim or Gerald has to step in to correct the bad info.
Remember Flex employees read the post and hear us, but they do have a long term plan in place and all the complaining repeating and repeating the same thing changes very little, but we are heard. The fist time

No one wants people to buy another product, how ever I have read some post lately were some have not just expressed concerns but have mostly told Flex they are very unhappy with everything, including  how they run their company.

If people are so unhappy with the radio product or the software, then maybe a change is best and they will be happy with something eles.
Even when Gerald takes the time to explain why Flex does things, people tell him he does not know what he's talking about. that happened this week as well.
I did notice after Gerald explained what happened to V1 and how and why they decide on what features made it in and other didn't helped people understand the company choices.
But still their were some who said that he was not doing a good job and that Flex can not sustain it self the way they do things.
Some feel that this kind of sarcasm is constructive, I for one think it goes over the line.

So going ahead? if I see a post were someone rags on flex and says misinformed comments I will speak up and help set it correct. And use Tims or Gerald statements to be clear.

Lee - N2LEE

Bill having an opinion is one thing but being blind to reality is quite another issue. I have found that Flex wants to know what their customers think. And I believe they are talking to a number of different people to get input. But trying to please everyone is a no win situation.

Is there room for improvement with the SSDR software, absolutely. But if you look at the range of products they hit almost every market. The 6300/6400 is a total winner and especially now at $1999 it a heck of a lot of radio at a very good price point.

For the serious contester the 6600 hits every feature from what i can tell. And of course the 6700 is the flagship product for the ham who wants the top of the line.

Personally I think when the newest SSDR features come out for the entire product line, I think a lot the noise will drop. If users can get the same capability on their existing radio then that levels the playing field.

Of course you will see the whiners complaining about the option to pay for new versions, but the same people have been complaining about that from day one. Nothing new here, move along.

What I find interesting is some of us still use Windows XP or 7 because we did not see the need to move to Windows 10. I do not see the difference between deciding to stick with 1.X over 2.0 any different.

2.0 Puts More Pressure on Flex
I would like to point out some thing everyone has missed about Flex releasing a fee based upgrade system.

One of THE great advantages to Flex users is the fact that Flex is going to paid upgrade. The key issue everyone is overlooking is this now puts more pressure than ever to improve SSDR. Think about it from this perspective, if 2.0 does not live up to YOUR expectation then you will not upgrade. If you do not upgrade then Flex does not generate the necessary revenue needed to stay competitive and increase their market share.

Before when SSDR 1.x was free there was no immediate pressure to add new features. Their revenue was solely based on hardware sales. But now if 2.0 is good but 3.0 fails to live up to your expectations then no one will upgrade. Therefore they lose revenue.

So I submit that Flex is actually doing us a favor and putting the consumer in the driver's seat. Not the other way around.

Ria

My icoms must be too old. I did see that they have firmware updates for the newer radios. I have a 756 pro3 and a 746. I am keeping the 746 for 2 meters but the Pro3 is going to go up for sale soon. 

N6OIL

@Salvador,
Because I can and I'm a stakeholder! Also, Lee hit the nail on the head, when "experts" tell Gerald, Tim or Steve they don't know what they are talking about who are they kidding these guys ARE FlexRadio! Like I said if you're not happy with Flex then leave and let us enjoy the fruits of Flex's labor without all the QRM! Look what happened over at HRD, yes people left because of Rick but many stayed and stuck it out. This is what I love about our country, freedom of speech but with that, you better have some thick skin when posting on forums because some people think it's there giving right to call you names and verbally abuse one another, I call this the "FaceBook Effect" 

If Flex was never invented I wonder who would have been the next big thing? Who needs knobs anyway!

Ken Hansen

Microsoft site licensing is per user/device PER YEAR, and is merely a pricing reduction, not a single license for unlimited installations at a given location. For example, Windows costs, say, $100 to purchase, Office $250. And once purchased can be used in perpetuity with no upgrade rights. On the other hand, if a school chooses to go with a site license, instead of paying $350 one-time, a school can pay $35/year for access to the latest version of Windows and Office that is released during the year. When the school stops paying the $35/annual fee per desktop, they are obligated to remove the software immediately. Sure, someone may have 5 Flex-6000 series radios, but that represents a investment of between $12,500 to $35,000, and they may choose to balk at the idea of investing $1,000 to get the latest software for their 5 radios, but if they choose not to they lose none of the functionality their 5 radios offered before V2 is released.