I can't belive: "This conversation is no longer open for comments or replies."

IZ0CBB

Critics are bad if they are only negative, this is a concept I can understand but I have never seen a company react like this: close a discussion!
You have burned the value of so many FLEX and the trust of so many customers who have believed in the project and in the company. For 3 years we waited, we got bugs, we had to use flex interface software with external accessories etc etc. Your answer was: new models, paid software, and no upgrade hardware options!
Your customers are just asking for one thing: "hardware upgrade" not to have to drop our flexes, we would have paid for it because you're giving us something in return.
I keep my Flex 6300 in the shack because it is not possible to sell it, when I will have a new radio, a real radio, I will plant flowers inside the Flex so at least it will have a function in the shack and will definitely not have bugs or other defects.
Think about what you are writing to do not offend, do not just think about yourself, Flex's property is yours but "Flex are your customers" are not you, we've bought all your radio, and we're many many more of you.
Thank you

Donovan van Loggerenberg

Yesterday when I posted a similar comment. It was deleted by the Moderator.

All I can say, is we feel let down. My 6300 was purchased in December. By January I was trying to get answers about things I was promised that have not materialised. now my 6300 is obsolete and the issue will never be sorted. I feel ripped off.

Donovan

ZS2DL

Rick WN2C

I purchased my 6300 in the middle of 2015 so it is about to go off warranty. I have not had one problem with it (yet) and am very happy with its performance. The only problem I did have was with the computer and DAX. The computer I was using was running Vista 64 Bit and did not like DAX.
If I can afford to, I will either do a upgrade purchase or buy a 6400M outright. I have read the "now closed threads" and am befuddled as to why so many are outraged at Flex for bringing out new equipment before V2 software. Yes I too thought that my 6300 is 'now worthless' but I now realize that it will continue to work just like my Drake radios still work. Now I have calmed down from my initial reaction of what just happened to the value of my Flex. I think I will just continue to use one of the better radios that is (was) available in ham radio.

p.s. Can't wait for ver.2  where do I pay?

IZ0CBB

Dear Rick, your reasoning is absolutely correct, but you miss a particular one.
When you buy a Icom, Kenwood it work, they fix problems with free upgrades.
We bought radio that still gave us unresolved issues and they promised a software that would provide innovative performance. Now you needs to change radio and buy a new one, you can not upgrade anything, this is not acceptable.
If you have a K3 can turn it into K3S, this is the best example I can do.
If I want to modify my K3 I can do it, it remains my choice, but I have the chance they did not leave me with an old radio!

The problem is not $ 200 of the software but the fact that I can not update my 6300/6500 and make it like new radio. 

I repeat, it will be perfect for the flowers!

KY6LA_Howard

@Rick You missed the point that unlike the Icom, your Flex will continue to get updates and bug fixes Plus you can buy new versions of software with new features so it is not dead like an Icom

KY6LA_Howard

@Lino As one who has owned virtually every Icom made , they rarely if ever fixed bugs and more likely you need to buy the next Icom model to get bug fixes as these usually required major hardware revisions. Secon, I do not understand your point about the 6300 being obsolete. It still runs SSDR the same as all 6000. Bug fixes continue to come. New features are available. The. Only difference is minor hardware changes. BUT SSDR Is the Radio.

IZ0CBB

Do you read  all these angry angry posts ? Instead of finding justifications why not read?
But I think seeing the great number of post, a minimum, small, very small of reflection should come. If you start from assuming that Flex can do just fine and all are wrong, then ok!
The proble is the hardware I can't upgrade hardware, K3 to K3S do you know ?!?!?!

Giulio

Presenting new RIGs than new software (that is the real heart of the SDR) FRS states that the path to follow is NEW HARDWARE...but not new hardware to complete or enrich your existing RIGs...but new models.  So, I bet that in 2 years my 6300, bought in 07/2016 will be a bauble. That time i had to buy SunSDR 2 Pro. Definitely.

Remember this?

https://community.flexradio.com/flexradio/topics/upcoming-so2r-board-shots

Tim - W4TME

Guilio - All FLEX-6000s run the exact same software.  All features and capabilities that will be added to the 6400 and 6600 will be applicable to the 6300 and 6500 too unless there are particular hardware options that are not applicable to those models.  SmartSDR is the radio.  I know your radio will not be a bauble.

Giulio

TY Tim for the answer, I hope so. 
G.

Ken Davis

Points are being made on new stuff coming about every year is well taken and true and I support innovation 100%. I am not upset that they did the upgrade, but how they handled the marketing aspects has caused many loyal Flex owners to lose more than what we typically bargained for when we made our initial new radio purchase decision.

I have read in several posts that Flex will work to keep the value up on my 6300. I don’t believe that is true at all. If I were Gerald, my last worry would be the value of my 6300.  I don't think Flex is doing this on purpose, I think they are just wrong in their marketing philosophy.

Here are my points; the MSRP for the 6400 is $1,999 and the MSRP of the 6300 is $2,499 which makes my 6300 worth $500 less today than last week simply based on pricing policy.  For Flex to even break even on their trade-up program, they will have to offer something significantly less than $1,999 for a 6300 which will further de-value my 7 month old 6300. The only good that can come from a trade-up program is I hope that Flex will trash most trade-ins to keep from flooding the market with cheap used radios which would further de-vlaue my radio. Make no mistake, they are in business to sell NEW, not used radios.

At this point I believe my 7 month old 6300 is worth ~$1,200 until V2 is released and then it will go down more unless I spend the $$ to upgrade.  I think owners of 6300 and 6500 radios should be offered a V2 no charge upgrade to restore part of the huge loss we are suffering. Not even autos lose this much value in 7 months. I fully expected to lose value from day one, but not ... 60%.

This is just my opinion and I am certain many will disagree. I love my 6300 but I am not too crazy about Flex's marketing programs.

Thanks for listening and 73

Jim Gilliam

Where I part company with Flex is the inability to use 2.0 on my two flexes for the price of the upgrade. That stings and points to a change of attitude with Flex. This attitude is what scares me. Gong from a "mom and pop" manufacturer to the "big time" makes flex fade in with the others.

Jim, K6QE

Ken Davis

Tim I think you have a typo where you say "All ........ that will be added to the 6500" which I think should be 6400??

Tim - W4TME

Thanks for pointing out the typo.  It's fixed.  I am on day 8 of getting only 1/2 of my normal rest after the Hamvention so my razor sharp focus is waning a little ;-)

Ken Davis

I do not envy you at all. I was in your position at a major aircraft manufacturer for 34 years and we customers can get a bit unruly during new product intro. Stay calm.

Giulio

Note that:

"The Trade-UP! program is not currently offered to customers outside of the United States". 

G.

Tim - W4TME

For the most part, that is correct.  We use a dealer/distributor network to sell our products in the EU to provide local value added services and having to meet directives such as WEEE.  These dealers are independent businesses.  We will be working with our dealers to see if there is a viable way for them to do something equivalent to the Trade-Up and Trade-In programs, but it is really up to them if they decide to participate.

Steve K9ZW

@Lino - afraid it isn't possible to turn a 6300 or 6500 into a new PHYSICAL radio.  I couldn't do that with the TenTec, Icom, Yaesu and SGC radios I've had either.

What is possible is you can continue to grow your 6300 or 6500 from the present SmartSDR v1.10 to v2.x when it comes out. 

How were you were expecting to upgrade 6300/6500 Hardware in a closed Hardware architecture?  I have never seen that as part of the FRS promise.

Hardware production of the 6300 and 6500 may have been discontinued, but these two models are in no way suddenly obsolete.  They can run the latest and greatest just like the other Flex-6000 models. 

Impatience in progress is understandable.  We all want more and sooner. 

In the end it will come when it is ready.

73

Steve K9ZW

Rob G6EIH

Join the Distributor Take back Scheme here to comply with WEEE
https://dts.valpak.co.uk/DTS/Welcome

 

Tim - W4TME

Thanks for the link.

Michael Coslo

Hasn't FlexRadio Systems always been upfront about upgrades being per radio? 

Ken - NM9P

When the horse had been kicked to death, and those kicking the dead horse begin kicking one another, it is time to close the thread and let people reset, cool off, and begin a new thread with a new focus that may be more helpful, and more civil. I think this was the intention when the other thread was closed. Frankly, there has been more discussion allowed in this Community, even extremely negative discussion, than I have seen in many other company-run forums. But you cannot compare this official product Community to some of the unmoderated trash and vitriol-filled independent forums out there where anything goes.

Dan -- KC4GO

From Tim and other Flex folks talking about SmartSDR going forward, "6300 and 6500 too unless there are particular hardware options that are not applicable to those models"
We have that today where the 6700 can do diversity and 2 meters and 6300 and 6500 can not. Nothing has changed. 

Ria

I've never gotten an upgrade for any of my icoms. Did I miss something?

Jerry WA9UKB

Same feeling I have about my 6500 taking a nose dive Paid 4200.00 new could have sold right before may 18, 2017 for 3200.00, " although not my intention" or if I wanted to get the most to go for a 6700, now after May 21, 2017, ill be very fortunate to get 1500.00 at most. I understand everything depreciates at different rates, Its just a vertical dive in 1 day for this one.

Still a good radio and better when it quits locking up, 3 instances in 2 hours on last night using the Maestro only and latest firmware on both.

Jerry, 

Ned K1NJ

    Even with positive comments and questions I try to take a deep breathe and
wait a day.  More often than not someone will have asked the same question
in a better way or the problem will have been resolved with the help of a bit
more thought.  Radio is fun.  Work more stations.

      Ned,  K1NJ

                     

Bill -VA3WTB

@ Lino  When was the last time you spoke with the CEO of Icom? or a high ranking employee. How often do they post and talk to their customers directly on a daily basses?
Flex staff are right out there for us to yell at and call names, tell them that Flex radio is junk, flower pots? And that they know nothing about software or how to run a company. I read a post yesterday saying that Flex is dishonest, shafting customers.

But we don't all agree with you and everyone eles crying. Flex ows you nothing.

IW7DMH, Enzo

I am trying to give a sense to all this, and like I am used to do, often look back to get the best from my work and correct my errors.
So now I have a question from the point of view of a SO2R contest station.
With the new 6400/M rig, which of the announced features in the SO2R board are already done? Which of them still require additional hardware? Will the second receiver be muted during the transmission with the first?
On the other hand, if I am right, the 6600/M cover all the 7 point just as it is (will be).
Just to be smart I cut & past the features summarized by Steve.

Thank you very much
Enzo

Lee - N2LEE

After two or three days there was nothing new in those post. It quickly turned from constructive and feedback to a **** session. 

The forum is for support and yes feedback. But If you were moderator and had to spend time doing the work customers are asking for instead of managing a bunch of cry baby's then you would do the same thing. The President of the company acknowledged he had read every post and responded.

Let There Be Change
Yes they introduced new products and yes some people hate that and some will love it. Welcome to the real world. Just like the rest of us they have to make decisions on based on a number of different limitations. Some engineering some financial and often times customers will disagree with those decisions. The great thing about a free market society is WE have a vote. We get to vote with our dollars. If we agree with companies decisions, they get our vote if not we go else where.

Strategic Direction
A lesson I learned many years ago is to bet on the company not the product. Now that sounds counter intuitive but it is the company's strategic direction that drives their product development, customer service and determines their longevity. Products and features will come and go and one year company A has the bells and whistles you want and next year company B has those features. We use to call this the "feature check box list". Anyone who buys a product based solely on this criteria will never be happy and will always be switching gear every time a new shiny "thing" comes out. Most of us probably know people like this.

Decision Process
There are (initial) product decisions Flex has made that I am not happy about. Such as dropping a broadcast balanced XLR connector and using a consumer 1/8" stereo mic input. But the (adult) long term decision process is based on more than a mic connector. I have to weigh the entire product line, software, long term company viability and cost.

It's NOT Beach Front Property
Finally I have to laugh at hams who complain about the value of their equipment. NO one in their right mind buys ham gear based on the value of future investment. Maybe a Collins S-Line holds some long term value but let's be honest with each other. The value of our gear drops like a lead weight the SECOND you open the box. IT'S ELECTRONICS !  The TV I bought last year is worth half  of what I paid. Ham gear is not much better. Yes, yes I know SDR is software based and yes it does have a longer lifespan because it's upgradeable with the click of a mouse. But it is not immune to devaluation. Buy the darn radio, use it, have fun, get on the air and don't look back. Most people who buys a NEW piece of ham gear buys it for reliability, warranty and cosmetics. The rest of us cheapskates buy used gear to get a deal. If you think buying any SDR radio is going to protect you for the next 20 years, you are going to be very disappointed.

Gerald-K5SDR

Enzo,

The 6600/6600M provide plug and play SO2R in one radio but the 6400/6400M do not.  With the 6400 models you would need two radios and a SO2R controller like you would with other rigs.  It is less expensive to buy one 6600 to get that capability.

Gerald

Steve (N9SKM)

Lots of speculation there Jerry. While the value of the 6500 has undoubtedly been lowered some by the new rigs 1500 is just a number that sounded good to you. According to the classifieds i have seen the selling market for a 6500 is somewhere in the 3 to 3500 range.

 I will add that if you want to trade up you should take advantage of the program that FRS unlike others offer. They were extremely reasonable when i traded my 6300 up to a 6500. it was at least as much as they were listed for in the classifieds at the time.

Steven