Is it just me feeling like this?

KY6LA_Howard

FLEX DEMENTIA SYNDROME You may recall that after Trump was elected many of your more left-wing friends went absolutely insane with what is now called Trump dementia syndrome. Reading the community website it seems that many have now been hit with flex dementia syndrome composed of wild speculation of the devaluing older models and unfounded concerns that their radios will no longer work with the SSDR software. I have tried to refrain from commenting but it is hilarious to watch The INSANITY. YES. Flex needs to add a bit of spit and polish to the V1 and it likely will happen YES. V2 will likely be out in June with Dockable windows and WAN in its first version]. They showed it at Dayton YES. multi-client (M and PC at the same time or many users) likely will happen sooner NO your 6300, 6500 and 6700 did NOT lose major value because Flex will give you great trade-ins value when you buy a new model YES the new hardware sales are needed to find new software development' YES Your 6300,6500 and 6700 Will continue to work with the new versions of SSDR and to the best of my knowledge II do not see any features that cannot be implemented in the existing models. I did very well in the markets from people suffered from Trump dementia syndrome and sold their stocks in a fit of panic. So if any of you guys suffering for flex dementia syndrome want to sell me your 6300s or $6500 for $500 /$1,000 I will buy all that your selling Bottom Line. Take a deep breath. The sun will rise tomorrow.

K4MT

I know I am wasting my time with Flex fan boys but the 5000A history is easy to see. My high dollar purchase dropped 50% overnight. And trade in they would give me 800 for it on trade. What a deal.  You guys amaze me.  Go ahead and see how quickly your 6300 and 6500 value drops. Just like the 5000

Pat N6PAT

Your Flex didn't drop one red cent unless you bought it with the intention of selling it.

I purchased mine with the intention of keeping it. Who would buy a radio that they didn't intend to keep?

Mike W9OJ

Do you still have every radio you ever bought?

Gary Sheridan

You are spot on Howard!

Jd Dupuy

Oh boy you just had to bring politics to the table!

Lee - N2LEE

The JA's have the same approach in many other industries, for example in the photography industry. The JA might have a fix here and there but 99% you have to buy the next model. Take a look at Sony, every 18 months they release a new model. RX100, Mark 1, Mark 2, Mark 3, Mark 4 and now Mark V. 

The reason is their entire business is based on manufacturing. They have to design, build and ship hardware to be able to employ the work force. The Icom 7610 is not going to be any different.

Flex does need to up their game

One area where I do agree with many of the comments is if Flex wants be a software company then they need to up their game. I love my 6500 but SSDR is certainly not breaking new ground. 

If they are not able to do the job then they need a much more aggressive third party software development program. More 3rd party support and APIs would be a smart move. But there is a catch...

One of the advantages Flex has over their competition is also one of their weaknesses. 

1. The strength of the 6000 Architecture is the Client  / Server model. The bulk of the work is done on the 6xxx not on pc (client). Which means  they can have an iPad or low end computers and makes it much easier to have remote capabilities. 
   
   
2. The weakness in this approach is it MUCH more difficult to write server based applications and requires a much higher skill level programmers. I believe this is a big reason why we have not seen many of the features listed in this thread.

As some who worked in software development and marketing I know first hand that throwing more programmers does NOT always solve the problem. In fact more programmers can often slow down development.

My advice is the same for making a purchase of ANY product, if it doesn't do what you want then buy something that does. But whining and complaining says more about your decision process than the company you are complaining about.

  

KY6LA_Howard

@JD... not intended to be politics  but rather a current example of a blatant hysterical Dementia Syndrome that many people can easily understand....

Asher - K0AU

Howard, if the new models broaden the base then this announcement is a great thing.  More users, more revenue and a virtuous cycle for Flex.  I did not expect 4 years of software bundled into my initial purchase.

Flex decided a few years ago to stop discussing road map.  Certainly their prerogative, but in my companies when I'm selling an architecture I talk a lot about road map.  Flex is a very architectural product that's going deep down an accessory track with 4O3A.  And down a contest software track with N1MM+.  But not disclosing much about other hardware/software integration for non-contesting use cases.

I don't share other commenters' worry that my 6700 has lost value, but I do worry if I still have the flagship that will get features first.  I've built enough products to know I'd probably design in a faster DSP and processor and add memory when I launch a refresh after 5 years.  I've had to tell customers, "Sorry but your v1 cards don't support v3 software."  I have no reason to think that's happening here, but a little more communication would help!

Lee - N2LEE

Howard there are always those that see the glass as half full and those that see it as half empty.

When I see the amazing technology that we have available as hams for the incredible price, I am thrilled.

rfoust

This thread is in the "tl;dr" category for me (google it) but my flex radio still works great, not sure what all the fuss is about?  I'm still enjoying it as much this week as I was last week, the week before that, etc.   ¯_(ツ)_/¯  Looking forward to v2.0 so I can have a new radio all over again.  

Ken - NM9P

Apples and oranges...the 5000 was superseded and obsolete upon the release of the 6000 Series, though PSDR was still supported for a while afterwards., the old flex line was left behind with SmartSDR. In the case of the 6300 and 6500, even though the have been discontinued, they are still part of the surrender series, and run the same software. Will the 6300 and 6500 lose some value? Certainly. Is it going to be as catastrophic and rapid as some are predicting? I don't think so. Even if it does, how has FRS wronged anyone? By developing even better equipment for less money, based upon the past five years of experience? By adding features to a rig at the 6500's price point that previously were available only on the 6700 (which was $3200 more expensive)? By finding a way to incorporate a simple control surface into the new models in order to bridge the gap for people who have a hard time adapting to a knobless interface? Fan-boys? Rose-colored glasses? The way some people are getting hysterical about this, you'd think their lover had been unfaithful to them.... If my rig loses value, fine. I have enjoyed it for four years and have had more fun with it than I have had in 43 years as a ham. I got to be on the cutting edge. Just like I was when I bought my own first generation DirecTV for $530 back in the 90's, before the company started providing them free to new customers. If a user is worried about resale value, they can keep it, like I do my cars, and run it until FRS abandons SSDR for a new software and hardware line. Until then, it will continue to receive updates and upgrades, and continue to be a very functional top-line rig.

George KF2T

Howard, I'll buy a 6700 for $1500 today. No problem! :-) Actually very intrigued about the trade up on my Limited Edition 6500. The 6600's dual SCUs and price point are extremely tempting. Perhaps I will get over the lack of a front panel headphone jack, after all! After the surprise wore off, I'm much more excited about the new rigs. They seem to represent a maturation of the product, responsiveness to the market and users, and good business. I used to fear Flex could become like SignalOne, great but unsustainable. Don't have that worry anymore. Even if I don't spring for the 6600, I have no doubts that the 6300 and 6500 will be supported for a long time, just like the models that went before them.

Lee - N2LEE

I wonder how many of you have seen this interview with Gerald talking about the features that ALL the 6000 radios will receive ? This appears to dispel a lot of the myths stated here about the current flex. https://youtu.be/UGNVjGKdvbM

KY6LA_Howard

@George

I owned a Signal One.. even paid more for Serial #1,...superb radio in its day...

Don't recall what ever happened to it... probably thrown out with lots of other old junk when moving between countries...or more likely sold with my company that owned it.

Yes.. I know that lots of hams would love to sift thru my old trash on trash pickup day.

George KF2T

Call me when you decide to put stuff by the curb!

Michael Coslo

There are some people who while they claim to like this radio and Flex, seldom have a good thing to say about either. This complaining about Flex offering New equipment, at least to me, rather confusinghave no issues with new equipment, nor new software for old equipment. From my car, my computer manufacturer, or my radios. Should Flex just pt out the present series until some other manufacture catches up and passes them?

Perhaps someone could outline the business model for their concepts of FlexRadio perennially putting out new and hopefully free software, and not ever introducing new hardware simply because it reduces the value of old hardware. 

That's what I want to understand. I know a bit about business, but am always willing to learn from people who have different ideas, because what has been bantered about sounds like a recipe for Chapter 7.

Peter K1PGV

I just don't get it. Sincerely. A week ago, some group of people were happy with their radios. Now those same people seem to no longer be happy with their radios, because new radios came out. Nothing happened to their radios in the past week. My 6500 still works the same way it did last week at this time, the fact that there's now a 6600 and Flex doesn't sell the 6500 anymore doesn't diminish my 6500 one tiny bit. I still like my 6500. I still wish the UX was better. But I like it just fine. It terms of value, did you guys think you could get your money back if you needed it for hospital expenses or something? Seriously? It's a friggin' RADIO people... it's not a bar of gold bullion, or a Krugerrand, or even a Rolex. You're not going to get what you paid for it a few years later. Be realistic. Peter K1PGV

KY6LA_Howard

Cleaned out before travelling

It's already at the Curb.. Garbage pickup is Monday AM

rfoust

Yep.  I like the latest greatest bleeding edge technology as much as the next geek, but I don't start bashing the company when they come out with a newer gadget.  I give them a thumbs up and say great job!  

Bill -VA3WTB

This is so silly, first off, the test By Sherwood was done on a used radio that had a problem in the code that was not detected, Flex found the flaw and discovered that the flaw was effecting all 6000's, they fixed it then sent it back for testing.

What you are saying about updates is simply not true. Flex said this week that updates to fix known problems with the 6300, 6500, 6700 will continue on as before.
 Your radio, the 6300 is not worthless, it still works just the same way as it did last week.

We all knew that a few people would take this opportunity to bash the radio they own, and say they will have nothing to do with Flex again but will continue here saying it over and over, like they just can't move on.
For the most part if we look at the ones doing this we see it is just the same troubled people that have posted here all year.

Ron W4RDM

Old Saying in the South - If You want to dance, you have to pay the fiddler.

From my experience.
New or Used - It's best to buy a Flex after Dayton

It's best to sell before Dayton.

73,

Ron W4RDM

Gerald-K5SDR

Is it just me feeling… Let me start with my bottom line advice. Buy on panic - sell on optimism. If you have been waiting for a fantastic deal on a used FLEX-6000 buy right now! We were completely out of stock on all factory certified units before Dayton. We have not been able to keep them on the shelves and have a waiting list. If you want a factory refurb you may have to wait a little longer. If some of you manage to snag a panic bargain, you can request our service department to run our full factory test for a basic one hour minimum bench fee. If any repairs are required we can quote those after testing. The warranty will be for repair parts and labor only and not the extended warranty we normally provide with refurbished units from the Trade Up program. If the radio is still under factory warranty we will include the warranty transfer as part of the one hour bench fee. We can provide this service from both our European and US repair centers. Now let me set the record straight on regarding speculation and incorrect assumptions. I like to summarize facts because it helps me to organize my thoughts. I hope that everyone will appreciate our sincere desire to serve all our customers to the best of our ability and resources. Here are the facts regarding the announcements of this weekend: SmartSDR is the radio for the entire FLEX-6000 Series. Only a tiny fraction of our software development is unique to specific hardware including the new PowerGenius XL amplifier. That means that virtually all of our software development benefits the FLEX-6300/6400/6500/6700/6700R at the same time within the capability of each respective model’s hardware. A very small portion of our engineering budget is for hardware development relative to SmartSDR development. Hardware is “easy” - software is hard. We are committed to releasing SmartSDR updates that support common feature enhancements for all models concurrently. An example is that the new pop out panadapter feature on v2.0 will be available on all models simultaneously. For a variety of reasons from time to time there may be software features that are unique to a given model within any software software release. Our full time software developers are and have been working on non-hardware specific SmartSDR. Software that is specific to the new models is extremely small relative to overall ongoing SmareSDR development and is primarily being done by engineers not dedicated to SmartSDR development on a regular basis. Oh, and we just hired another software engineer who starts next week working on SmartSDR development. All the new models run SmartSDR and are based on a common scalable software architecture that sits above a hardware abstraction layer. Write once and test on all. Version 1 is now feature frozen. However, there will be one or more v1.x releases likely to come after v2.0. ships. For example, we will include the IMD DR3 performance enhancement I discussed recently on the Community that we expect will benefit all existing models in a future 1.x release. We plan to address some other issues and bug fixes in those releases as appropriate. Version 2.0 is in full testing now. We expect to release by the end of June. We demonstrated v2.0 in Xenia this weekend where you could instantly connect to any of a dozen stations across the country right from the radio chooser. Coming up will be a series of 2.x releases with a variety of new features that are in the works. At some point there will be a 3.x, 4.x, etc. There is no requirement to upgrade to any new release. Our licensing policy is published on our website. Your current FLEX-6000 Signature Series radio is not obsolete. It is simply part of a growing SmartSDR based family of products. . If you desire for FlexRadio to continue to develop enhanced SmartSDR features for all FLEX-6000 models many years in the future it is in your own best interest for us to be successful in selling new radios as well as new SmartSDR major versions. That is how the work gets funded. We appreciate and listen to all constructive and respectful feedback. Thanks to all of you who have supported us over the last 14 years since the SDR-1000 was introduced We truly care about our work and your enjoyment of it. Thank you for helping us bring SDR into the mainstream in the small but fun ham radio market. 73, Gerald

AA0KM

Email this to all.

Lee - N2LEE

Gerald, the detractors are few and your supporters are many.

We all strive to excel and provide the best product or service we can given the resources we are dealt. And no one or company is perfect. Apple is an 800 BILLION dollar company and yet to some people everything they do is wrong.

Keep doing what you are doing and congratulations on the new product line. I for one am excited about the new hardware and I know everyone at Flex is proud of their efforts.

K2CB Eric Dobrowansky

Steve, no, you are not the only one feeling this way.

V1 is now feature frozen? Really?

Heck, some of us are still waiting on features and functionality we were "promised" when speaking to your sales reps prior to the purchase of a 6000 series radio.

Maybe "promised" is the wrong word, but we were in so many words assured that some of the more simple functions, about which we inquired, would be coming within a year or so, and that was what, 3 years or so ago?

It now appears the money is in the hardware, if Flex's latest actions are any evidence. Maestro, Power Genius XL, 6400, 6600.......Meanwhile, SSDR has evolved at a snail's pace.

A suggestion - as it appears Flex is now becoming more of a hardware company rather than a software company, and SmartSDR continues to progress at a painfully slow rate, how about putting all your efforts into manufacturing great hardware, and open up the software portion to the open source community?

I can understand why at first you decided to go the closed software route, but has it really paid off like you had envisioned, at this point in time? I would tend to think not. It's probably been your worst nightmare, short of component availability issues.

I could be wrong, but I think if Flex originally went the hardware only route, an un-named hardware only SDR radio provider would have never even had a chance, at least in the USA.

No one will argue that you make some great hardware, but the software - come on already, how is it that the open source guys (and by guys I mean the one or two predominant players) can come out with new features in days or weeks, yet with SSDR we have been waiting years?

For example-

After months, Flex announces noise reduction feature.
Within days, OpenHPSDR guys release NR2 functionality, which is second to none. SSDR's NR is still nothing to brag about.

CESSB - weeks, not months. And wait until they release the new transmit audio processing functionality currently in beta testing. And there's talk of directly supporting virtual audio plug-ins in the near future. Is Flex considering these items for SSDR?

Predistortion - will it ever arrive?

Look at what KE9NS has single handedly done to revive the 3000/5000 radios.

Look at how the IOS SSDR app has affected the Maestro. While some of us use the Maestro in different fashions, many hams I know sold their Maestros and went with the app on an iPad for their remote usage. I wonder how that has affected overall sales of Maestro? Maybe hard to tell with the current delivery issues?

Ok, I wil accept the previous argument that SSDR is more involved to develop. But we are led to believe Flex has an experienced team of paid code developers on staff. Whereas the open source guys, and individuals such as KE9NS, are one man shows. So what am I missing? Is Flex not investing in the correct talent?

To top things off, we have now witnessed the resale value of our 6300/6500/6700 radios decimated overnight by the announcement of replacements with better specs at reduced price points. I am all for progress and a better value, but by trying to expand market share at the expense of your existing customer base is not a good move.

For example, someone who recently bought a 6300 for $2500 can now not even give it away, when a better replacement is offered at $2000. Let's not even mention the poor sap who payed out $7500 for a 6700. Had the price points held, they could have easily sold their old rig for a fair value, then added a reasonable amount to it, to upgrade to the new model. How the heck do you think they feel right now? Do you seriously think they going to buy another Flex without thinking twice? You would have done much better to have kept the price points closer to where they were. At least initially. The other three major manufacturers have traditionally held the same price points when releasing a replacement model of comparable level. And it has served them well, with loyal repeat customers, who were able to get a fair resale value out of the older model.

And finally, I know many Flex owners are not going to part with their money as quickly the next time around, if there is a next time. I myself am interested in a Power Genius, but I will wait until it is "fully baked" before I hand over my hard earned cash this time around.

I sincerely wish Flex all the best with their new product lineup. I just hope they realize that past customers are also potential repeat customers. Traditionally it has been cheaper to keep existing customers than to attract new ones. But they need to get certain things right for that to happen.

Eric
K2CB
(Rain coat on for all the Kool-Aid about to be thrown my way!)

K2CB Eric Dobrowansky

You can't compare Icom, Kenwood, or Yaesu in this regard. When someone buys a hardware radio from one of the big three, they are knowingly purchasing a WYSIWYG radio.

When someone buys a 6000 series radio, they are buying the concept of a continually evolving radio. Thus the reason they chose a Flex over the others. At least that was the thought two or three years ago.

The issue here is the evolution has been painfully slow and not as promised.

Steve Jones gw0gei

Gerald Thanks for the clarification on several points, which is helpful I tried to sell my 6300 in recent months, in order to upgrade to a 6700. It didnt sell but thats good as it meant i didnt spend £7000 on a 6700. The 6300 will now stay long term in my shack whilst i watch what happens with the new 6600. If a panic driven 6700 comes up for sale i may well buy it as i like bargains. The only real disapointment for me is that it appears 2.0 is taking priority over fixing problems in 1.10.16 with respect to hang ups. I put in a helpdesk ticket on advice and was then advised that it was a known issue and would have to live with it until a fix is found. It appears that even if i pay for 2.0 i will still have to wait for one or two more maintenance releases to fix the hang up issue? I would hope that when the fix is found it will be released asap. Similar for the performance upgrade? I am sure the new radios will sell well and it looks like the 6600 is a better so2r option for me rather than a 6700. Is it possible that the 6600 may end up in a smaller box ? Appart from the disapointment that no bug fixing maintenance release was issued to coincide with the show, the other notable absence was any news of better integration with antenna genius. Will there be features supporting antenna genius in 2.0 ? Maybe it was mentioned to people at the show but for those of us in europe it would be great if an insider issue could be sent out confirming what you THINK will be included in 2.0 subject to final testing. As a antenna genius plus owner and someone who is planning on buying a power genius, due to the integration for hf and 6m contesting, it would be good to know what is coming down the road to further improve integration. 73 Steve gw0gei / gw9j

IW7DMH, Enzo

Dear Mr. Gerald,

thank you very much for your kind and detailed answer. Also thank you for taking part in a public discussion that no manager would ever like to be in. Giving a face to a brand does you great credit.

As you may imagine, I am part of the big list of disappointed people that in Dayton days was expecting a new SmartSDR version rich of features while they found a new product line announced in a very questionable and cryptically way.
Disappointed not because my Flex 6300 today is worth less, but for the way the entire operation was carried out: the first reference to the 6400/6600 is in the last two tiny lines of the SmartSDR 2.0 flyer, published by Tim on 12/05/2017, while the official announcement of the new models was published only three days ago.

A correct (justifiable for me) hardware renewal policy would have seen a proper information campaign mostly oriented to people that was going to buy a new Flex, followed by a sell-off period. it happens for every mass oriented product. I hope it will be done in the next months.

In addition I read that SSDR 2.0 will be free only for new buyers while it will have a cost of 199$ for the old rig owners. In my country we say "oltre il danno la beffa" (after the punchline - I hope this is the correct translation). So all people that have an old rig model, will be forced to pay for the features required and promised from about three years. And in many cases, like mine, after having contributed for free in the check and test of dozens bugs in earlier versions of Smart-SDR. I can't agree with this marketing policy.

From a company like FlexRadio, I would also expect a actual global business policy: if I buy a Yaesu or Elecraft radio, I'm pretty sure I can get the same treatment both I live in Tokyo and in New York: in the first case, "Yaesu CashBack" in the last a K3 to K3S transformation (or something of very similar). Unfortunately this can't be true for FlexRadio, or at leat it is true only when I buy a new rig for the first time.

I believe that care and diligence are due to old buyers as well as to new ones: who still believe in FlexRadio technology should have the 2.0 release of SmartSDR at the same cost of the 6400/6600 owners, at least in the transition period; who still believe in FlexRadio technology should also receive the same treatment (read return policy) regardless of his geographical zone.

All this is part of the "politically correct" as, at the moment, I am not taking care of the technical aspects.

Best regards
Enzo, iw7dmh

Clay N9IO

at 3:22:06