New Sherwood 6700 and 6300 tests

Gopro

Have someone seen a new Sherwood test results for 6700 and 6300?
Seems to be very disappointing.

Rick

Wow! This is shocking!

Gopro

Yes, unfortunately, but  hard facts!

Andrew O'Brien

what did they conclude ?

Ria

It was a 2nd sample and apparently tested on 10m? Where you're not likely to ever encounter crowded band conditions.

George KF2T

http://www.sherweng.com/table.html -- not really different than the first time. Shows that there are a lot of good radios out there, and the 6700 is one of them. Some lab scenarios (MDS, NF, etc) are unlikely to be replicated or meaningful in the wild, so just breathe. 

Andrew O'Brien

I found the test results.  I see my Flex 3000 is now ahead in the standings a few positions ahead of my Flex 6300.  
Andy

Thurman Roberson

Well i have had my 6700 since September of 2016 and I'm very impressed about what it can do the receiver is great I'm hearing stations I never heard before and I was using and icom 7600

k0eoo

To my knowledge Sherwood usually does not do 2nd samples so this is rare.   Funny, I noticed he did it on the K3S and 6700 for 10m....  If I put my product marketing hat on for a second its obvious the tests were funded by the K3S group putting the K3S ahead of the 6700 albeit only on 10m....  

Lots of people out there are driven by who's got the best specs even though any radio in the top 10-15 would be good enough for contesting or DXing, YMMV.

Rick

I too wondered about that as it seems like the only radio they retested. 

k0eoo

Yes, the K3S group have probably been loosing sales to the 6700, because of the Sherwood ranking evidently, so they had to come with something to slow down the bleeding, need I say more...

The Flex 6000 series offers benefits the K3S couldn't hope to duplicate.  I reference Glenn Johnson's comments about low band DXing I posted some months ago, to my knowledge these are attributes never before defined so Mr. Sherwood would have to create a new test/category, well, maybe some day....

Ross - K9COX

I'm going to start using my SB-101 again

Gopro

That all might be, but real problem is 6300
- only 83dB dynamic narrow spaced and 26-th place on the list!
Is this rig relay so weak!?

KM6CQ - Dan

My question is, it this a result of hardware or coding? Either way this is good news for Flex consumers, it will bring us better hardware, firmware and software. Of course it would be nice if it is a result of the latter two.

Dan

KF4HR

The 6700 and K3s comparisons do seem biased toward Elecraft.  I also wonder if more than one 6700 was tested?  Flex may need to modify their QST ads a bit.  I'd like FRS to weigh in on this latest chart.

One spec that does concern me about the 6000 series is the Sensitivity column (I assume with no preamp activated).  Anyone have any idea why this spec is so poor compared to other equipment?  

Ria

It's the entry level signature series. If it was the same performance as the 6700 for 1/3 the price I would not be happy as a 6700 owner.

mlstutler

QST reviewed the 6300.  They measure 2K Reciprocal Mixing Dynamic Range at 116 db.   I also wonder why Sherwood used ssb filter to measure narrow spaced dynamic range. 

Lee - N2LEE

It's all about RESULTS not what's on a spec sheet.  This applies to cars, cameras, computers or any gear. I often talk to photographers who are pixel peepers. When you look at that photos they are awful because they are more interested in specs than actually using the tool.

The Flex 6000 series is an amazing radio. As with all things there will be radios that are better and some that are worse. But its how you use the tools that matter.
 

KM6CQ - Dan

I think you are right Lee. I also think perception is the result. When I operate, not having to look at a box with knobs and a display is good. If a IC-7610 was at the top of a test data sheet that would not sway me to change. Taking the HDMI out from the back of radio is not good enough, and I do not see that column on the Sherwood chart. Like most of you, I like to swap screens with the my radio app and resize to run multiple apps on one screen. A monitor screen dedicated to a radio and nothing else is to restrictive and not effective. Again, not on the test data chart.
I will not be content to look at a 7" screen for hours. However saying all that, the IC-7300 sitting next to the 6500 is a perfect 2nd rig, go to rig, RV rig, and outdoor rig. The Flex is perfect for the backyard and shop on a IOS device. The KX3 is a wonderful rig. With all three of them on the same antenna, they seem about the same to me. 

Gopro

Really?
 IC-7300 is entry level too - no need for PC, is cheaper
 and last but not least, it's  11(eleven)  places over 6300.
Flex 6300 is the worst SDR on whole Sherwood list!?!

Gopro

I agree, the signature series is  special,
 but what went wrong with Sherwood tests -
 it must be something strange in whole story?
So biased can't be?

Varistor

Rob owns and tends to personally favor Icom radios (loves the 7300). Test data has nothing to do with his personal preferences. You are making empty accusations trying to justify your own brand preferences.

Mike va3mw

How do we know which test is correct? Is the first test right or wrong? Maybe the 2nd test is flawed? To be valid all these tests need to be run be a second independent party?

Maybe Rob's equipment is out of calibration.

Mike

KY6LA_Howard

First Rob Sherwood is far too Professional to cook his results.


Second most of you do not seem to understand how to read and UNDERSTAND the specs.


Sensitivity is frankly an irrelevant number As long as radio is more sensitive than the ambient band noise at a frequencyten it is more than sensitive enough. In fact too much sesnitity means you are amplifying Band noise. This is in fact one of the reasons why we turn down AGC TV so we do not have too much gain and sensitivity that amplifies the noise





As you can see the 6000 is more than sensitive enough because it already here is better than the band noise levels.


RMDR by which Sherwood ranks the radios is also almost in a irrelevant number. Basically, any radio with an RMDR better 85dB it's more than good enough for most ham purposes except for close in contesting physically next to other powerful stations where it might make a difference. Today virtually every every radio soul has it better than 85 DB are RMDR


Probably the most important factor today in a modern radio is the phase noise because that determines how much **** your radio ads to received signal. Basically the radios with the lowest phase noise hear the best and Add the least **** and distortion to what you hear.


If you read this Sherwood specifications the FlexRadio's have easily the best phase noise numbers on the market. That is why, when you listen to a FlexRadio it seems very quiet and yet they receive signal jumped out from the noise.

If I were rating radios on the rankings I would rank them in terms of phase noise

Steve W6SDM

In that case, a buyer considering only that criteria should buy an IC-7300. Those of us who have been long-term Flex owners know the difference between Flex hardware, software, and especially support and buy accordingly.

James Del Principe

Since we are having an honest discussion about the Signature series radios, this may be an opportune time to make an observation and then ask some questions that have been on my mind for some time now.
I currently have a 6500 running 1.10.16 non-beta SW and have had it for about 2 years now.
First, an observation: I just erected two antennas at my new QTH, an end fed half wave installed as an inverted 'L' and an OCFD oriented at 90 degrees to one another. The EFHW is MUCH quieter and most signals are stronger...... if I only had the OCFD, I might conclude this FLEX is a noisy rig when in fact it is not.   So the point is, we are not in labortories but in the real world where antennas make a big difference.
Next, a question for those much smarter than I:   With the Flex antenna input shorted, the 'S' meter reads 3 to 4. On my other rigs, (FT 2000 and FT 847) it drops to zero. So why do I still have a reading ? Before you say common mode noise, the other rigs are connected to the same antenna system.....and this is with the pre-amp off.
Next, it takes an act of congress to get the 'S' meter above 9. Occasionally, it will on a real power house.
Finally, does the Flex actually have a working AGC?   I normally have the pre-amp off. Even though I am in a very quiet rural area.... no neighbors for a very long distance and all underground utilities.    But the difference between a weak signal and a strong one will knock your socks off.
I set the AGC-T to just drop the background noise tuning with no signal...but would you not expect a much better control of levels?
Many Thanks and Best 73, Jim

Mike va3mw

Thanks Howard

I'll bet most (not all) of them complaining about this would have difficulty clearly understanding exactly what the results mean.  Even with my RF formal education, I barely understand it (I understand phase noise of course)  

Some people just like to complain.

many 73

KY6LA_Howard

@JIM

S- Meters LIE..

On your legacy radios they are usually giving you a relative reading of the AGC levels inside the radio and/or they are derived from an AGC circuit.. they are not an accurate measure of the band noise.  Further there is absolutely no consistency between S Meters on legacy radios.

Flex Radios are accurate instruments that read out in -dBm the actual level of the signal at the antenna.   S0 = -127dBm and S9 = -73dBm...  If the internal noise or band noise at the antenna is say -109dBm then it will read out  of S3 would be accurate.. Personally I wish Flex would dump S readings altogether and just give us dBm readouts.

James Del Principe

Thanks, Howard and I fully agree about 'S' meters lying..... however, why does my Flex 'S' meter read 3 or so with the input shorted???   Should not be any AGC action at that time. I realize the AGC must be virtual and not a voltage as in legacy radios but how do we (or Flex) 'zero' them out???    
At least on my Hammarlund HQ 170 there is a **** to do that on the back. HI HI   73, Jim

Mike W9OJ

I wonder if I could trade up my 6300 for an Eico 753?

73 de Mike W9OJ

AA0KM

https://community.flexradio.com/flexradio/topics/why_does_my_s_meter_read_s5_all_the_time