out of band problem

Steve G1XOW

SSDR will not TX after out of band event.

This am, trying to work JT1 on 18.166 but my 2.7kHz b/w made me slightly out of band situation. However, even after moving back down the band the TX inhibit would not disengage. See image attached showing 18.160 with TX still locked! 

Restarting SSDR did not help. I had to cold-start the radio again to get it to reset. Very frustrating.

Chris DL5NAM

What mode you using for JT1? USB?  If yes, then you have your answer. 18.166 + 3kc =18.169 =  out of band
(i know bandwith of JT but your Flex knows only your QRG +/ Mode)

73 Chris

Steve G1XOW

Chris, read again and look at the image 18.160 + usb b/w is not out of band

Martin AA6E

Have you checked your TX bandwidth?  It's not necessarily the same as RX.

Steve G1XOW

Its all in the pic Martin. Low cut is 100, high cut 2.9k add that to 18.160 is not out of band - but TX still locked-out.

David

I would recommend opening a ticket with Flex. The message I get at the bottom right when TX will be out of band is TX Not Ready. Yours show TX TX Fault. Searching for what the difference does not return anything for TX Fault. I did see you posted a problem last year related to an out of band problem but guessing you check those issues and this one isn't related. https://community.flexradio.com/flexradio/topics/will-not-tx-after-out-of-band

Martin AA6E

Tried power cycling and/or reset to factory settings?

Steve G1XOW

David, that was a different problem due to time taken for SteppIR to retune. That is not the same and the antenna would not be retuning with a timy fraction of a QRG change anyway. Cheers,

Steve G1XOW

Martin, power cycling the F6k does solve it but this should not be necessary and is unproductive for a DX chaser.

The radio worked fine just before the out of band condition, and again after a power-cycle. There is clearly something wrong with the latching logic of the out of band condition.

I can reproduce the problem pretty easily. Simply set QRG on TX slice to say 18.164, then engage tune and move the slice up beyond 18.168. The TX interlock then goes out of band as you would expect. However, sliding back down to within band again does not release the interlock and no amount of fiddling (wasting time) with the app releases this state until the radio is power-cycled.

TBH I find this pedantic nature of the out of band state where in takes in to account the exact bandwidth is just a PITA and unhelpful when stations are operating near but not over a band edge. No other radio does this, and today whilst the rest of the world was working the JT1xxx on 17m using "normal" radios, I was fighting with an uncooperative F6k and missed the chance at this rare DXCC. Thankfully, I did catch him again some time later.

David

The curious part is more that is shows TX Fault instead of Not Ready. I figured your previous issue didn't apply but worth a double checking. Again I suggest opening a ticket with Flex so they can investigate and track the issue.

Michael Coslo

Are you changing frequency while you are tuning?

Terry K7NY

I just tried what u said and the tx fault stays until u click on tune and turn it off. It then goes right back to ready.
Terry
K7NY

Steve G1XOW

Steve G1XOW

IZ2ODM

The same for me in SSB !! Seems to be a limit set for this band

Terry K7NY

U are right , something is going on. I tried ssb and vox.
Terry
K7NY

k3Tim

I think the behavior is reasonable 'punishment' for blundering and attempting illegal operation. During a contest, any contestant that operates OoB should be disqualified. Please keep feature in place. Regards All TiM K3TiM /6

Steve G1XOW

Tim, I think you missed the point entirely. Preventing out of band operation is fine. However, preventing in-band operation again afterwards is simply not on.

Its is easy to do by mistake and any kind of "punishment" is inappropriate and condescending - an act that no radio manufacture should consider as "the right thing to do".

Take an EU op that clicked on a cluster link during a contest. Without knowing it, the link was for a US-only phone band, i.e above 3.8MHz or above 7.2MHz. The rest of the world does not operate there!  The radio should be able to act appropriately (with a clear and obvious error message/beep) to save operator embarrassment without punitive measures. The only fault there was poor band and/or contest planning.

Any radio that tries to enforce that kind of draconian measures will find themselves quickly listed on eBay.

Tim - W4TME

I have entered this problem report into our bug tracker as issue #4568 for additional investigation. Thank you for the defect report.

k3Tim

Hi Steve,
I understood the point. When someone pulls the trigger and the radio blocks an OoB condition rather than letting the operator continue on once the frequency is set properly, instead the radio enforces a "time out" (google "timeouts in kindergarten) from transmitting. This isn't nearly as draconian as getting a US$1,000 fine from the FCC. The 60 meter band is also used for Aeronautical navigation. This morning I was listening to ATC in San Francisco working international flights over the Pacific. An OoB transmission in the 60 meter band could be significant.  

I'm an old-school and don't use skimmers or spots. With the panafall one can find Dx pretty easy. Band edges are things we should know by instinct hence I'm not a big proponent for adding this to SSDR. Taking it further is SSDR were froze at this stage, I'd be fine with it.

Take Care,
k3Tim

Tim - W4TME

Steve - the error you are getting, "TX Fault" indicates that there is an interlock preventing the radio from transmitting, not an out-of-band condition.  By placing your mouse cursor over the  "TX Fault" indicator you will get additional information as to what interlock is in force.  Do you have a device connected to the TX REQ interface on the radio?  If so I suspect it is responsible for not allowing your radio to transmit.

David

Tim, if you look at his screen shot it says TX Fault instead of the Not Ready. What is the difference?

Tim - W4TME

Sorry, I mistyped (and corrected it).  The premise of my comment is still applicable. 

Steve G1XOW

Tim,

The TX fault pop-out says "PTT: Software   Inhibit: Out-of-band". This is still the same after moving back well in-band.

I do not use the TX request or interlocks in any way. Only Amp keying via RC1/2.

Tim - W4TME

OK.  Please open the Setttings->Radio Setup->Radio tab and tell me what region is defined for your radio.

Steve G1XOW

EU02
HW v1.10.16.91
SSDR v1.10.16.174

Steve G1XOW

Tim, something very odd happening with this fuzzy logic bug. I will try to explain in steps so that you can replicate it:-

1) slice A on 18.157 USB with VOX on, all working fine
2) move to 18.170 (oob)
3) cause a TX by triggering VOX
4) Msg says "TX not ready, inhibit out of band" (as expected)
5) then slide back down to 18.157
6) MOX immediately latches on (was not on before) and stays on until switched off manually

If you do this several times in rapid succession the TX fault state then comes up and thus needs a power-cycle of the radio to reset it.

Tim - W4TME

That is interesting. Thanks for sharing

Eric-KE5DTO

There is definitely a problem with how VOX handles an Out Of Band condition (and likely other similar transmission preventing conditions).  We have addressed this internally and the fix will go through Alpha testing soon.  In the meantime, toggling the MOX button should clear the TX Fault condition and allow normal operation once again.