IPv6 support

Ria

Will any of the Flex radios support IPv6 in the future? Not really that big of a deal, but Apple now has requirements that any apps submitted to the app store must be able to function in an IPv6 only environment.

This is more out of curiosity as a tech/networking/dev person. 

Tim - W4TME

Can we support IPv6?  Yes.

Will we support it in the future? TBD.  If there is a valid use case that meets the 80/20 rule, then we will seriously consider supporting it in the future.

Peter K1PGV

The vast majority of nodes on the Internet don't support IP V6 and have no plans to do so. Internally, within an enterprise, there's almost no reason to even consider supporting IP V6 ever. And, on a home network"where the vast majority of Flex systems are used, I can think of nothing but disadvantages to using IP V6. To me, the most important thimg about IP V6 is remembering to disable it on the systems I install. Is there an IP V6 specific feature that youre hoping for? You know... Just curious as another tech/networking/dev person. Peter K1PGV

Ria

Hi Peter,

Most smartphones on US networks are on IPv6 if they are on 4G LTE and a lot of Comcast is on v6 as well. You may not realize it because it's configured for you. But if you go to test-IPv6.com you will see it.

A lot of sites are enabling dual stack IPv6 as well. I am In charge of the operations of a very high traffic internet site and some smaller sites associated with it and we switched on IPv6 this week. Google and Facebook has had it for a while as well.

Expect more sites to enable it, as Apple has mandated compatibility with IPv6 for App Store approval.

Ria

As for specific features, having a routable IP address would be the major one. SLAAC instead of DHCP is another.

VK7WH Winston

Peter, you may be able to give me some guidance, as I have very limited knowledge on the subject of IPv6, other than it provides better security and a vastly increased number of IP addresses. I have my 6700 located at a remote solar powered site, currently controlled using Parallels Access from an iPad, however I plan to setup a VPN in the near future. Because the remote site does not have a static IP address or even a public IP address, with no likelihood of ever getting one, I plan to run the VPN server at my home shack. For some time I have had a static IP address at my home qth ADSL connection, however when I recently changed over to a fibre FTTN connection I ran "checkmyipaddress" and found that I now have a very long alpha numerical IP address more than 20 characters long. 1) Is this an IPv6 address? 2) Will it present any problems setting up a Softether VPN Server? 3) Should I seek to have it changed back to a static IPv6 address? 4) Is there any workaround if my Service Provided won't or can't change it back Thanks Peter, or anyone else who may be able to put me on the "straight and narrow path" 73 Winston

VK7WH Winston

Correction. It should read 3) Should I seek to have it changed back to a static IPv4 address

VK7WH Winston

Peter, I think I have found the answer to my questions. I just ran test-IPv6 and see that I do in fact still have an IPv4 address, although it has changed. That is not a problem as long as it keeps the new address.

Peter K1PGV

Hi Ria,

Thanks for the reply. I think you made my point for me. You're running a "very high traffic" site and just enabled dual stack this week.

Having IP V4 only support does not preclude having a routanle address, as you well know. And SLAAC is cool... As long as you have a /64 address block available. Again, useful on your home network? Not so much.

As far as what Apple requires, well, they require lots of things. There aren't many internet sites hosted on Apple computers.

I asked because I consider IP V6 nothing but an iannoyance when it comes to internet connectivity, and pointless for an internal network. So I was curious about your query. Again, thanks for the reply.

Peter
K1PGV

Peter K1PGV

Hi Winston, Yes, it sounds like an IP V6 address)assuming by "alphanumeric" you mean the digits 0 through 9 and the letters a through f only. That's actually 8 groups of numbers expressed in hexadecimal notation (each group,separated by a colon) like: A123:4566:7DE3:8476:... (Etecetera). I'm sorry to say I know exactly nothing about SoftEther, so I can't provide any help. I think Ria N2RJ (the OP) might be better able to answer your queries than I can. Peter K1PGV

Ria

Actually, yes, it kind of does since v4 addresses have (past tense) run out.  Getting a block of v4 routable addresses for a home or small office network costs money and will be impossible in the near future. Getting a /64 on IPv6 is free, essentially since it is the minimum standard configuration for an IPv6 network (if you are allocated less than a /64, some thinge like neighbor discovery will break). A /48 should be no problem either. I have a /48 block for my home use since I run multiple subnets. 

The Apple requirements are significant because as it is now, you cannot get an app approved without support for IPv6 only networking (it was announced at WWDC 2015). Apple is going further by requiring that the backend for the apps also support IPv6. Apple clearly has seen the future here and wants its ecosystem ready for it. 

So you have half of the mobile device world mandating IPv6 compatibility. And actually, with the level of abstraction that iOS provides (NSURLSession and CFNetwork APIs) it is transparent to the end user. 

IPv6 is going to matter even more because the IoT is expanding even more. Flex radios are very much part of IoT. It's not a high priority item for them but it would be a nice to have to stay ahead if there is some spare bandwidth, development wise. 

"I consider IP V6 nothing but an iannoyance when it comes to internet connectivity, and pointless for an internal network."

Deployed properly it actually works better on internal networks. Internet connectivity will soon have a native IPv6 stack enabled by the ISP by default.  Wireless carriers have already done so and wired carriers are not far behind. DOCSIS3 has it already and other last miles like VDSL and FTTx technologies do as well. 

Usage is only climbing, as IPv6 usage has gone from almost zero to almost 15% of end users in the past 3 years alone. 

On a side note, much of the annoyance of current IPv6 implementations on the desk side has to do with bridge technologies like Teredo and 6to4. Once those are replaced with native dual stack, that will be much less of a concern, and of course transparent to the end user. 

Ria

You likely do have an IPv6 address, and since you went with a fiber connection it is even more likely.

But you also have an IPv4 address and are running something called a "dual stack" configuration which means your system can use both v4 and v6 addressing schemes. 

No ISP is exclusively on IPv6 and won't be for a while. 

Go to http://www.test-ipv6.com.  It will show both stacks and your IP address on each as well as confirming connectivity. 

So it shouldn't really matter for SoftEther, OpenVPN or any such thing. Carry on as usual. 

VK7WH Winston

Thanks Peter. It looks like I have both IP v6 and IPv4 addresses. I didn't pick this up until I saw Ria's link. Thanks Ria Winston

VK7WH Winston

Many thanks Ria. Yes, I found your earlier post and link and , as you say, I do have both. Once I have my VPN up and running and tested on both, maybe I can cancel the fixed IPv4 address and save the $10 per month I currently paying

KC9NRN

I disable it at work and at home, if and when it becomes the standard and IPv4 is no longer being used I'll change. It provides nothing of benefit to me at all right now. I do plan on taking classes this winter to become better qualified to use it should I ever need to but for now, too busy.

Peter K1PGV

Hi Ria, We're going to have to agree to disagree on much of the issues around IP V6 , it seems. People have been trumpetting that IP V6 is around the corner for more than a decade. It just ain't happening anytime soon. Having the capability to support IP V6 is a very long way from actually supporting IP V6 in a practical sense in a connected world. We've been "running out of IP addresses" for more than 20 years, and while all the IP blocks have now been allocated at a macro level, have you ever heard of anyone putting up a new site and not being able to get a routable IP V4 address? Of course not. Yes... it's harder to get big blocks of IP V4 addresses... When my company changed ISPs, we had to turn in our C-block (from which we had used only a small number of addresses) for a much smaller CIDR block. I argued, but in the end, I really don't need 255 routable IP V4 addresses. I just wanted my own C-Block because we always had our own C-Block. In reality, 64 routable addresses (which is what we were given) is more than enough. Everything else is behind the firewalls in any case. Heck... Even much of the publicly accessible stuff behind the firewalls gets NATed according to destination service. The fact is that most iP nodes don't have to be directly internet connectable. Your point about IoT is an interesting one. But again, how many of those devices will be directly connected, versus connected through some sort of gateway? Don't you envision a lot of mesh-connected nodes behind gateways? Consider Alljoyn... Not everything is a router, right? "Deployed properly it actually works better on internal networks." Works better? I just don't see it. I don't want my internal network directly routable, and IPSEC is IPSEC. Having a bigger address space on my internal Corp net adds no value that I can see. So, like I said, I think we have to agree to disagree. Thanks for taking the time to discuss the issue with me. It's good to hear and consider different viewpoints. Most of us tend to associate with folks with similar views, due to the communities we work in. So hearing a different view is useful. Peter K1PGV

Chris de Voogd

 My internet connection is glasfiber with DS-lite and only iPv6 protocol.
Portforwarding is not possible.
Is there any workaround to get Smart-link working? Till now it is useless for me.
(6600/v3.1.8) W10, Maestro)
Chris
DJ2NL
Germany

Tim - W4TME

Unfortunately, your workaround is going to involve setting up a bridged VPN for remote access since SmartLink is designed to be compatible with IPv4 only.  There are no plans to support IPv6 in the immediate future.

Patrick

As Ria has pointed out, ipv4 and ipv6 work very fine concurrently. So why all the angst???  I have had it up and running for last 2 years here on Kauai.  My internet provider had problems supporting it at first, but after working with them on a related issue got them to properly support v6 on their switches and routers.  all my systems in my house, that have properly implemented ipv6 work very well.  Two of my services provided are routing via ipv6.   So why disable it, I have not heard of anyone having problems,  I think this entire issue is based on a misunderstanding of what ipv6 is.  An improvement in networking that will eventually benefit all.   Most resistance, I feel is, based on none issues.  Europe and the rest of the world is moving forward on this as indicated in the last post, Flex, if you expect to do business in the rest of the world, you may want to rethink your position.  

Patrick

Check on using an ipv6 tunneling.  There should be a provider in Germany that could help. It would allow seamless routing for ipv4 services....

Damiano

Hi, it‘s 2020 and I expect native IPv6 support from such an innovative company/product. Here in germany most people use it without even knowing they have it. Approx. 90% of the internet connections use it natively, the biggest cable internet provider is even doing carrier-grade nat on v4 so not routable other than with v6! I know you could make a tunnel and stuff, but it really would be easier for your users to just implement v6 at this point! It’s only a matter of time until more and more providers will start doing the same and stop assigning publicly routable v4 to customers. Serious networking professionals are already dubbing v4 as „legacy“. For me as an interested buyer of a flexradio I am holding off this (not inexpensive) invest until I will be certain that I’ll not buy old tech which then might turn out of not being able to support it. Sorry about the rant, but it’s not as if the networking part is a secondary thing for flexradio, so it should be treated as such. Regards, Damiano

Chris de Voogd

My conclusion is that, in Germany at least, the Smartlink feature for me is completely useless as long as there is no iPv6 capability. 

Ken Wells of Flexcompany service tried to help me with work-arounds but no succes. 

Maestro I can only use in my local home network. The radio itself is great.

Chris
DJ2NL

DK3HV

Guys,
time to reanimate and restart the topic... it gets more and more important for us here in Germany and other european countries. Different to the US situation, the provider does not give a real IPV4. So we are fully depending on the IPV6. I am now playing since month with different solutions to tunnel etc and to find a bypath... nothing works well and stable.
The provider send me a written offer yesterday... they want around 110 Euro extra per month for a fix IPv4.... that is completet nonsense 1200 Euro per year.... we need a solution...

Mike-VA3MW

@DK3HV

Thanks for the update. I have forwarded it to our engineering team.

73

Lasse SM5GLC

Just changed to a new router hooked up to my broad band fiber, and was awarded with a new CG-NAT IPv4 address, as I am showing a new MAC address. Contacted the support and they told me, I have to pay extra for just a public IPv4 address (not static) due to shortage of IPv4 addresses, but they also told me they are rolling out IPv6 at full steam and this will be public IP's per definition and at no extra cost. IPv6 is in operation in several areas now and all new customers do get this per default. Only future will tell how long I can stay on IPv4.... Lets see if "Flex will be the last kid leaving and switching off the light...."

Johan SE3X

Soon to retire, I have gone from having my last employer paying my Internet, to a private subscription. Same provider the largest in Sweden, Telia. Everything stopped working, Smart Link, VPN, Cameras etc .. Talking to their support and it was obvious the reason. As with Lasse, I have to pay extra for public IPv4 address, again not a not a static adress.

The change from IPv4 is coming rapidly. Flex not only seems to be getting behind with Smart SDR. Soon the benefit of having SmartLink might dissapear. I won't sell my 6700 any time soon. But from being the leader in Ham SDR it seems like Flexradio doesn't care very much any longer.

Lasse SM5GLC

Got good support from my ISP, and was given a public IPv4 address again! And I was told that there is a IPv6 address assigned in parallell, took a few hours to get the router properly configured, but now it apears I do have both protocols running from the same router.

But yesterday I spent reading up on how to deal with CG-NAT, and it seems all is not lost, there are ways around.

Chris DL5NAM

99,99% of all Flex user cant deal with CG-NAT = remote access will then not longer possible, also DYNDNS cant work then