SPE Expert 1.3K, DDUTIL, Flex 6500 functionality question

EA4GLI

I always wondered why the Flex comes with ALC but no Band Data, it seems that ALC is an even more legacy connection than Band Data which is useful with Tuners, Amps, Antennas, Bandpass filters, etc...

KY6LA_Howard

Best Guess - Sometimes in 2017 and I would assume they will do everything in their power to get it FCC type accepted well before Dayton.

KY6LA_Howard

I believe that Band Data is on THE LIST waiting to get done..

In fact, somewhere back about 2013 used a 6700 and posted a video at Visalia DX Convention that had band data to control a SteppIR and an Amp.  However my memory is fuzzy on whether it was directly from the 6700 or via DDUTIL.. but I think it was direct.--- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLXjL6hoIYg

EA4GLI

That will be awesome!

Lawrence Kellar KB5ZZB

I have a 2K-FA and a 1.3K-FA and I use Dan's cables with no issues at all.  I use them with my 6500 and 6700.  Dan takes great pride in his work and will help anyone that is having issues.  I have seen the testing he goes thru to make these cables work.  He has even acquired a 6500 to test with.  I challenge anyone to find a more courteous and responsive dealer out there.  

N6WT Kent

@Lawrence

I hate to say this but Dan does not have a Flex radio. When I ordered my cables from him he said he did not have a Flex and had no experience with DDUTIL. Do you mean Bob W5UQ?

Lawrence Kellar KB5ZZB

No I ment Dan. He is using a 6500 for testing purposes . I believe he started testing with it about a month ago. I got a picture of it in his workshop but I don't know if he would mind me posting it so I'm going to enter on the side of caution. Dan is really Passionate about his products and really does try to help everyone.

N6WT Kent

Hmmm..... His direct quote to me on July 27th, 2016 was:

"I do not have any experience with DDUtil as I do not have a FlexRadio.  Your best bet is to look at some of the user groups out there as a lot of folks are using that software.  The FlexRadio SDR software does not export frequency data and I do not think there are any plans for that in the future.  I am sure they are focusing on their new HF amplifier that works directly with their FlexRadio over an Ethernet connection.  Just in passing, it will have a lot less ability and cost a lot more than the SPE linear."

Lawrence Kellar KB5ZZB

Lawrence Kellar KB5ZZB

With Dan's permission

John AD6NR

You do not need to use DDUtil any more.   I just hooked up my 6300 with a 1.3_FA and did not need DDUtil.  I am using SmartSDR 1.6.21.  I did not have a serial port on my computer so I used a serial to USB converted (Tripp-light Keyspan 19H) to adapt Dan's computer serial connection to USB.    When I loaded the drivers for H19 the computer assigned port 12 to that device. (I checked on device manager)   I then went into SmartSDR CAT and clicked "add" then  "existing".   I looked at the drop down menu - the virtual serial port showed port 12.  I selected that. 

I rebooted the computer, turned on the amp and it was connected!   

EA4GLI

Will this work with any slice or only Slice A?

John AD6NR

I don't know.  I have only used Slice A at this point.  I only got it hooked up a few hours ago.  

EA4GLI

Very interesting find John. I don't have the 1.3k in front of me to test it so I am curious to see what else you find. I think that it might only be slice A though so in that regard DDUtil still have a bit of an edge, plus the possibility of defining power levels per bands.

John AD6NR

The reason I tried what I did was because I was totally intimidated looking at the instructions for setting up DDUtil for the Flex!!  I am having some problems with setting the input power from the slice.  The 6300 and the 1.3-FA are talking about power but so far, there is something not quite right with the power slider in the slice control.  Once I set it for one power level on the amp it wants to stay there!   I can no longer change the level with the slider.   If I change bands when I come back it goes back to the original setting and I can not change it.     I am still experimenting.    Nothing is easy!  

John AD6NR

I just tested slice B and it did not transmit - even with the amp off.  I am also having trouble using the slider to set the power levels.  I need to figure out why (probably pilot error is my case).   I will post my results in a few days for everyone's edification.  Mike WB6DJI called me on the phone when he saw me posting.   He said Flex is coming out with 1.9 update that enhances the direct interface without the need for DDUtil.    

KY6LA_Howard

DDUTIL has many advantages including 1. Turn amp on and off 2. Set power input levels by band and mode 3 select antennas 4. Select input 5. Select power levels 6. Control display 7. Select standby or operate 8 Band Data Basically Total control of the amp in one place I suspect that the non DDUTIL method only sets band data It is very easy to setup DDUTIL. Just follow the instructions and use the correct cables. Or post your questions so an Elmer can help. I am would not be too sure that Flex has plans to provide anything more than just simple band data in future SSDR releases. While useful, band data alone will not control your amp

EA4GLI

Yeah, DDUtil is very very useful, if we could access to it from the maestro... 

Lawrence Kellar KB5ZZB

We have verified that power levels per band per level (low mid high) work as well without DDUTIL

Lawrence Kellar KB5ZZB

Remember in the amp manual there are pre set power levels that you can adjust by hitting the left / right arrow keys. The amp communicates with the radio and sets the power out of the radio

KY6LA_Howard

Are are just setting power output levels from the amp FIXED per band or are you able to dynamically change levels WITHOUT PHYSICALLY TOUCHING the Amp?

KY6LA_Howard

As many Of you are aware ALC introduces unwanted distortion products into your output signal. Why ...no amp is truly linear and ALC tends to exasperate theses non linearities. Yes SPE has a very good ALC circuit but it still introduces distortion One of the best Features of DDUTIL is that you can AVOID using ALC altogether. DDUTIL controls your radio output power by band and mode so you do not need ALCnor do you need a ALC cable

KY6LA_Howard

Finally my most important reason for using DDUTIL is that it gives me total remote control of my Amp. My amp sits under a desk where it it not convenient to touch controls. I also run remote much of the time (I am currently in France). DDUTIL gives me full control of the amp no matter where I am in the world.

Lawrence Kellar KB5ZZB

The amp also does this without the need for ddutil. Ref pages 38 39 in 2k-fa manual and pages 39 and 40 in the 1.3k-fa. If you do this you don't need to use alc. I'm not disrespecting ddutil. I use it but they are other options. Eventually I would like to be able to send band data to the amplifier directly from the radio with no third-party app required

Lawrence Kellar KB5ZZB

The amp controls the input power of the radio by telling the radio the amount of power to put out (3 choices per band). I do something similar with the connection software that comes with the amp and team viewer

KY6LA_Howard

We are all very familiar with the IMNSHO pathetic screen emulation SPE application that comes with the Amp. You are likely not familiar with the long history of events that happened to fix it over the past several years. The reason we all worked with. SPE To get them to change the API and Steve K5FR to develop DDUTIL is because that SPE terminal emulation program was very awkward to use and really not great for remote. Too many button pushes to do anything and very easy to **** up. DDUTIL integrates everything (Steppir, SPE, Rotor, Watmeters, Keypads,etc) into a single control point rather than having multiple competing potentially incompatible programs to deal with.

KY6LA_Howard

I just reread the SPE manual I now remember why DDUTIL is PREFERRED to the very awkward method to preset power levels manually via the SPE control panel. The SPE console requires multiple button pushes to set each band output . DDUTIL lets you simply set a power output NUMBER for each band and mode. No multiple button pushes. Easy to change on the fly or remotely The SPE method does NOT allow you to set output power by MODE. Different modes typically work best at different input power levels As I said a number of us spent a lot of time working with SPE and K5FR to fix the very obvious shortcomings and useability difficulty of SPE Amp The result was DDUTIL

Mark - W6MSB

Howard, I use DDUTIL and am very happy for all the reasons you cite. But while DDUTIL does allow me to set power per band and mode, is there a way to set for band and mode for each power level the amp supports? I haven't been able to figure this out, or am I just thinking about it the wrong way?

KY6LA_Howard

Not Yet. Need to ask Steve K5FR to add it to his enhancement list as it triples the size of the control matrix

John AD6NR

Howard - I seem to have started this discussion after I got baffled by the DDUtil instructions.   Maybe I was not looking at the right place.   Can you give me direction so I can find the "very easy" set up instructions?   I am still working on getting my 1.3FA to work with my 6300 without DDUtil  but I sure would like a plan B if I can't get the functionality I need.