SPE Expert 1.3K, DDUTIL, Flex 6500 functionality question

Mike Sonn KF9AF

I recently (last week), received a new Flex 6500 and an Expert 1.3K-FA.  I'm running DDUTIL 3.2.3.00.
I'm using a cable made by Dan, KC6PCB at Expert Linears, which connects to the CAT port on the Expert, a serial port on the PC and the Accessory port on the 6500.  I also have the USB cable connected and the SPE USB software works to control amp functions.  (There is a "TXD On/off on the SPE connector, but not sure when I'd need to use that switch.)

The amp will auto power on/off with the Flex6500.  While watching in the Manual Tune screen on the amp, the frequency readout works on transmit, otherwise sits at 0.000 MHz.  In addition, the amp will not switch to the current band, until I hit the mic key or tune switch momentarily.  I would have thought Passive listen on DDUTIL would have covered this, but not that I could find.

I have maximum powers (for amp or no amp), set in DDUTIL for the bands I'm using, yet output from the Flex is not limited in either mode.

So the issues I'm questioning:

Doesn't the amp switch bands with the radio, and follow frequency as seen in the Manual Tune screen, without transmitting, as it does for other radios?

What am I missing with the power output limiting with DDUTIL?

Are there settings on the Flex setup screen I'm missing, to make all this work the way it should?

I have literally spent days adjusting and trying everything I can think of, to make this amp talk to the Flex.  I have HRD working just fine, and know my way around setting up ports which I learned in my Flex 3000/5000 past.  Maybe I'm thinking the amp can do something it can't?  I can usually figure stuff like this out by searching, which I've done a ton of that on this site, along with Google and Youtube, but I'm stuck.

Mark - W6MSB

Mike, I am also a new SPE Expert 1.3K owner with what appears to be the exact same configuration as you. I'm using Dan's cables. Everything is working as expected (except for getting the right power levels out of the amp at the three power settings, but I'll take that up on a separate thread). Bands change, frequencies follow, DDUTIL controls -- it's all good.

Based on your description, it seems to me that you don't have DDUTIL set correctly. Did you follow http://k5fr.com/DDUtilV3wiki/index.php?title=SPE_1.3/2K exactly? It appears that neither your Serial or USB connections are working, but the fact that the SPE Software is working on your USB port is a good sign. For the serial connection, I'm using a real RS-232 port which I find more reliable. Make sure you are not running the SPE software at the same time as DDUTIL.

I do not have the ALC plugged in, nor is Hardware ALC enabled on the Flex setup screen. You should be using DDUTIL's Autodrive. I find that 12 - 15 watts works fine for MID power level (I'm only using MID at the moment). 

I'd suggest posting some screens shots of your DDUTIL setup pages if the above isn't helpful. I agree that it's hard to find help on this forum using the forum's search function, but there are some good postings by Howard and others that I found invaluable. Try searching for "2K" as well as "1.3K" in your searches. When I get home later tonight, I'd be happy to try and find some of those postings.

73,

Mark
W6MSB

KY6LA_Howard

The issue is possibly that cable. Not sure why he needs to connect to the Accessory port...no one else does.

Search expert on this forum

As per above http://k5fr.com/DDUtilV3wiki/index.ph... BTW. Alc is unnecessary if u use DDUTIL AUTODRIVE.

John-K3MA

I do not have exactly the same setup but maybe this will help.  Check the front display of the 1.3K.  Mine works correctly when CAT is set to Kenwood.  Not sure if that would be the same in your case.

Duane_AC5AA

I have the same set of cables from Dan, and the reason he's connecting to the Accessory connector is that is how Dan's cables expect you to connect. The connectors on it are marked: 1. Flex ACC (15 pin male D-shell) 2. Host PC (9 pin D-shell - serial line) 3. ALC (Flex) - phono plug . . . and at the other end . . . 4. SPE CAT (15 pin 2-row D-shell) So, one is expected to wire this up and be operational. There is some question whether the cable set is correct, as I've heard from one user who returned his, but Dan says he has folks using them with the Flex and the SPE. For whatever all that is worth

KY6LA_Howard

All you need is SPE CAt 15 pin to 9 pin RS232 on ur computer and USB cable from computer to SPE No connections to Flex. Definitely do not use AL C asAutidrive gives much cleaner signal. All those others are unnecessary and are likely The cause of the issues.

KY6LA_Howard

Follow the instructions AND CABLING exactly as shown on DDUTIL site.

Mark - W6MSB

I can't speak to the use of the Accessory port, but the cable seems to work fine for me. I don't have any complaints with the cable.

The only issue I have is that I like to use the three different power levels on the amp. The Autodrive setting seems to only work with one power level at a time. In other words, if I set drive for MAX on the amp, I'll get ~1300 out, but switching to MID does not get me anything close to 800 or Low of 500. Or, if I set Autodrive level for MID to 800, I don't get 1300 if switched to MAX, etc...

Is that to be expected, or do I have things set up wrong?

EA4GLI

When you connect the 1.3k with the USB cable the computer creates a COM port. In my case it was COM11.



All I need to do to have DDUtil control the SPE 1.3K is to point it to that COM port in the setup.



Then in the AutoDrive section of the DDUtil setup I have these enabled



Ignore the 25 value in the Amplifier Drive, as I also have the Expert 1k and that needs a bit more drive. 15 watts is all I need for Full power out of the 1.3k.

Which is something to keep in mind, you might even need to go lower in Drive power, something like 5 to 6watts at most if you want LOW and MID to be 500w and 800w respectively.

Depending on the band I have seen different output powers. I get consistently 1.6 and 1.7Kw on MAX on 40M. But I have 220v. Not sure if the US version differs based on max legal gain from amps.

I do not use, I repeat, DO NOT USE Passive Listener.

This is what the Ports Tab looks like on mine and it works. No need to have an extra cable from the computer to the expert to send CAT info for Passive Listener.
When I change bands the amp follows no need to PTT.

Lawrence Kellar KB5ZZB

I use a 6700 and 2K-FA. Dan uses the Keying line out of the accessory port of the Flex. Also He uses a pin on the accessory port to turn the amp on and off if I'm not mistaken

KY6LA_Howard

Good Post Sal

Except the USA version of the 1.3 is crippled by the FCC overregulation (similar to the overregulation by many USA agencies such as the FDA but that is another story) so that it is limited to 15dB gain. 

Hence you need a lot more power  than 15W (41W) to drive it to full power.1.3KW

KY6LA_Howard

DDUTIL can turn the 2K on and off without the ACC pin. PTT Is perhaps best controlled via the PPT ports on the 6700 you can set delays into that port.

Duane_AC5AA

Howard - will the cabling instructions, etc., on the DDUTIL site provide for full QSK CW with the SPE 1.3/2K amps?

EA4GLI

That limitation.... is for all amps? For example, if you try to amplify the XVTR port 100mW...are you limited to 15dB as well? And if so... how much final power is 15dB gain from 100mW?

Lawrence Kellar KB5ZZB

I Believe that the limitation is only for the HF bands 0-30 MHz

Lawrence Kellar KB5ZZB

There is also a comment period that is either going on right now or just ended from the FCC to do away with the 15 DB regulations

EA4GLI

hmm very interesting... it seems an odd limitation, one would think that allowing better efficiency in the amps will provide better IMD numbers instead of forcing users to drive amps with more power....

If the limitation is in the HF range then driving a transverter with a 28 Mhz IF will fall in that range....

It is definitely an odd rule in the US. It is lovely to see the Flex 1500 drive the SPE 1.3k to over 1Kw.

KY6LA_Howard

I don't do CW so I can't answer

KY6LA_Howard

The 15dB rule came about as part of FCC overregulation efforts to stop CB amps from Amplifying 5W radios into KW radios...

Bob Hardie of Expert Amps USA has a petition into the FCC with ARRL support to do away with this regulation.   Hopefully it gets approved as the original regulation did little to stop CB Amps and only hurt law abiding hams.... 

O.T Op Ed.

The USA is always implementing excessive regulations that have the unintended consequences of harming those the regulations was supposed to protect... Our Brexit friends rail against EU regulations when in fact the USA has a much more oppressive regulatory environment than the EU. 

I reside for part of the year in France and the USA and have worked and travelled all over the world.. As much as the USA claims to be a "Free Country" we have become so overly regulated that the bureaucratic excesses in Belgium and France as starting to look like they hardly regulate anything and what they do regulate seems mild compared to the USA.  It is no wonder that the USA has become so much less competitive in the last few decades....

Larry - WA7LZO

Regarding all of these horrendous interface problems, and the associated rats nest of cables required, in connecting any and all 3rd party linear amps to Flex 6XXX radios, thankfully we can gladly look forward to the greatly anticipated 1.5kW Power Genius XL amplifier. I believe this amp will put all of these headaches to bed, once and for (happily) all! I'm betting it will, and then some!

EA4GLI

Hi Duane, I fail to understand the relation between radio MODES and DDUtil interfacing with radio and amp. Care to explain? I have no issue with any of the modes, including CW, when I use the amp setup as I explained below.

Mike Sonn KF9AF

Had everything set like this and nothing.  Got it working by making my own cable.

Mike Sonn KF9AF

Best I can tell, the cable I purchased from Dan, does not work, or some parameter I'm setting must be wrong.  I made up a cable per the DDUtil page, set everything as indicated, and wa la, it works.  The amp now follows the radio when I switch bands and if I go into the "SET" menu, select "MANUAL TUNE", the frequency follows the VFO.  How is it that something so simple (now), can create such a pain in the backside.

Thank you, thank you, thank you for all the help and suggestions. This community is awesome.

Now, how does one get the amp to turn on and off with the radio using DDUtil?  I'm not sure I want this all the time, but when DXpeditions are happening, I want that option.

EA4GLI

Roy Laufer

I was offered an extra line to power up the 1.3k-FA automatically with my 6700 powered on, but decided against it.

I use the power button shown above, from DDUtil,

There are TWO serial connections required to your computer - one powers up and controls the amplifier, BUT the other one does the band sensing (Flex 6000->PC/SSDR->SPE 1.3K-FA). So it is possible if only one cable is working to specs to be able to turn it on and off, turn power levels on as well as flip between standby and operate and yet not have a clue what band you are on until you transmit.

Sometimes the cables are fine, but the software (SSDR, DDUtil) has to be stopped and restarted until everyone is "aware" of each other.

Of course, you have to get the configurations right for any of this to work.

Your mileage might vary!

Good luck in the contest!

73,
Roy AC2GS

KY6LA_Howard

@Mike

Ur at least the 5th person who has not got Dan's Cable to Work 

The example we posted on DDUTIL works as you found out. 

It was first conceived by Sergey, R5AU and I worked with him to get it right.

https://community.flexradio.com/flexradio/topics/expert_2k_fa

We then worked with Steve K5FR to get SPE to modify their Firmware API to make it easier to control their Amps.. that took us over a year.

https://community.flexradio.com/flexradio/topics/spe-expert-amp-support-ddutil-v32200-available

I do not know what Dan includes in his Cables..

But the much less complex design on the DDUTIL site works flawlessly...

km9r.mike

Sic semper tyrannis. Possibly more harsh than you feel about our oppressors but the saying stands the test of time.

N6WT Kent

@Howard
My SPE 1.3k Is showing up in the next few days. I ordered the cables from Dan thinking it was the way to go. But now after looking at all the post here, are you saying it is better to go with the 2 cable setup in the instructions above than to use Dan's cables? Are Dan's cables worthless? Not a big thing to me, I can make the cable.

KY6LA_Howard

Kent

I have not used Dan's cables myself however I have helped several people here who have had issues with those cables not working correctly.  If you can make your own cables, then the approach posted above is known to work without issues..

Also I personally do not use ALC but rather I use DDUTIL to Limit the drive power.  Why .. because all ALC no matter how well it is designed introduces some distortion..

N6WT Kent

Howard

Thank you.

Kilroy

When will we see it?