Dayton 2015 Report - Unofficial

SteveM

Maybe I missed it somewhere in this thread, Howard. But were the Indians (Anon) or the Russians (SunSDR) at Dayton? If so, any news or interest regarding where they are heading in the future?

KY6LA_Howard

I did not see SunSDR - I saw them last year at Friedrichshafen... Russian currency is in the toilet so maybe they could not afford to go to Dayton.

I saw ANAN... they were located in Radio Alley which gets more traffic than their old small booth and one man show of last year.

...Showing off their hardware.. Good implementation of 2nd Generation SDR with Open Source Software..  But the ANAN is still very much a do it yourself experimenters project and with all my travel, unfortunately I really don't have them time left to experiment with the ANAN in the next few months... so i did not spend much time there..

K7FU

I loved my A-2516. It was a good little receiver.

km9r.mike

Yes understand Bill and I am confident that the FRS team so2r box will be a reliable tool vice the uncertainty of using the MH product to accomplish the same.

Ken - NM9P

You are the first person I have heard that also had one! I liked it. If only I had known enough to modify the AGC timing and slow the hang time down, it would have been great!

Ken - NM9P

Howard, were there any new, earth shattering antennas introduced at Dayton? How about other rig-interfacing, or test equipment?

VK7WH Winston

Same here, I've attended NAB at least a dozen times since 1973, and likewise have alway had a good experience. The twice I've been to Dayton has been a real letdown. No criticism of the exhibitors or the organisers, just the inadequate and appalling venue. I have family living in the US and usually visit every two years, but I would think twice about going back to the Hara Arena next time. Friedrichshafen is looking very appealing for 2016.

Walt - KZ1F

Where I believe you and I disagree Howard is, despite the technology dejure, Elecraft, as far as I know is 100% in the Amateur Radio arena, unlike Kenwood and, presumably, Yaesu and Icom.

Wait....it is way too easy to misinterpret what I am about to say as denigration the 6000. I am not, I own one, writing software for it, and dbl'd down with the order for a Maestro.

If Elecraft **** they'd be on their way out of business, which they aren't. What I do not know and question is, should one talk to the VP of Engineering at Elecraft, would he or she agree with your assessment. I liked the earlier post "Watch what they DO". Elecraft sells. If their marketing determined that was likely to soon change with FRS and Anan on the playing field, I am sure they would "adapt or perish". That was the slogan of a company I did weapons training with.

The reason I mention Elecraft is, I believe, their entire existence is 100% determined by Ham Radio, not like Anan who caters to the QEX crowd.  Based on Shereng, the K3 (with the Feb upgrade) is statistically in a dead heat with Flex. So, in a sense, technology doesn't matter. I believe your essential premise is, it absolutely matters. This is where I perceive we disagree.

Where I have been known to be critical of the tone on this BB, san the choice of OS for Flex radios, I have not, in the least, been critical of the 6000 series.  I think to compete, whether it is football, a promotion, having a credible competitive product, one must KNOW the competition. There is an awful lot of 'preaching to the choir' going on here. To dismiss a highly competitive product as "35 year old technology" I don't think presents a clear vision of the competitive landscape. I am not saying you are wrong, I am saying even if you aren't, it doesn't really matter.

Bob KN4HH

Howard, thanks for the report.  I'm sorry I didn't get to shake your hand at the banquet.  Congratulations to you and Ken.  You both have done a wonderful job of answering my questions and educating me.  QSL on the Dayton venue comments.  If a tornado came through and only set down on Hara, no love would be lost.

Bill -VA3WTB

Good points Walt, I agree with Howard as far as that Elecraft see's it to their advantage to sell their radio as an SDR. This must be in thinking SDR is going to attract more customers if it is. But if we look at the total world radio market we see that SDR only represents a very small group compared to non SDR radios.

It seems to me that the title SDR is used loosely, meaning anything with firmware or any software on board is an SDR radio. If it has DSP it must be.

But to your point Walt, either way, the Elecraft radio is very good. I think Elecraft is not a direct competition to Flex as it is not SDR, it seems to me other SDR radios are a better competition. But Because they are still radios, and the fact that people buy them, in that way they are. As good as SDR has become, it is clear many will not buy into SDR.

Walt - KZ1F

That all presupposes they are lying. I am not a EE, but I have to believe if they say it's half sdr because there is a chip in it, I'd consider that false advertising. Again, what would their VP of engineering say on the subject. When I get home I'll call him and report back. Agn shereng thinks it is competitive, as I suspect Steve, Greg, and Gerald do.

Ken - NM9P

THanks, Bob.
I have been to Dayton about 15 times in the past 30 years.
When I began, Salem Mall was still a thriving mall and the parking lot was in great shape.  You could camp at the Tall Timbers KOA for a reasonable fee and wander around looking at all the crazy portable/RV antenna systems various hams dreamed up.  (One year my own van was popular as I used half the driven element of a TA-33JR beam as a vertical, attached to a stand-off on the side of my van with two thumb **** quick releases...30 second set-up from park to transmit, and it worked very well on 10/15/20)

I have seen the whole area deteriorate severely over the past 30 years, which I think is contributing to a slowly declining attendance and quality-of-experience factor.  (When my XYL and I started going, they still had a variety of interesting "Alternative activities" that non-ham XYL's could attend.  She loved them and always came along with me.)

I attended the FLEX Banquet for the first time last year and reserved a room at the Grand Hotel in order to make it easier to attend.  I was very disappointed in the quality of the room...dirty carpet, plaster coming off, noisy pipes, a great view of the air conditioning compressor and the rooftop in the court.  I have stayed at better places for half the price, and this is a former Double-tree, part of the Hilton chain.  I know why they are no longer affiliated.  To be sure, I am not a hotel snob.  In fact, I don't spend a lot of time at hotels.  We usually camp in our Class B Roadtrek RV when we are on vacation.  

Dayton has always been rain-soaked.  Even worse when it was in April.

The parking lot flea market spaces were always left a shambles by those who didn't want to take their junk back home and simply left it sitting for the trash man.

But there have always been a good selection of interesting Forum presentations...Most of them you actually could hear when the PA worked.

The restrooms have always been too crowded, and lacking in cleaning and maintenance.  What do you expect with the equivalent of 20000-35000 hockey fans trashing the place for three days?  But it has gotten progressively worse over the past 30 years. 

The DARC and Hamvention committee work very hard to produce the best even given the limited and declining facilities.

I would support moving it to another location...perhaps where the forums could be held in rooms with adequate sound and video systems, and where the paper-thin walls do not multiply our educational experience by allowing us to hear four presentations at once.  And perhaps where there is sufficient on-site parking that a shuttle bus isn't necessary, except as a courtesy to those who do not walk well.

I wonder if the Ohio State Fairgrounds, or the indiana State Fairgrounds would be a possibility?  Others have proposed other university options.  My concern, however is that the greater Midwest needs a major Hamfest.  There are a lot of us in "fly-over country" that would not be able to make it to Texas for Hamcom, Orlando for Ham-cation, California for the DX Convention, Vegas, or Huntsville, which I hear is really growing. If Dayton Hamvention dies, there will be a major gap in "hamfest coverage."

My $.02, which is about all it's worth.

Ken - NM9P

Dan -- KC4GO

@Ken
I also have a Roadtrek 210 P which has been to all 48 states. I've been looking for that award that's WFAS Worked From All States)  KC4GO@arrl.net works as a direct email if you want to chat RT mobile. I'm looking to taking my 6500 with me this year. 

KY6LA_Howard

@Walt and Bill I am currently putting the finishing touches on a Paper I am presenting at the SDR Academy in Friedrichshafen this June. It is entitled "Four Generations of SDR and Products". I will post it here after it is published by DARC. The purpose of the paper is to clear up the misconceptions and misrepresentations as to which radio architecture constitutes a SDR and to establish clear easy to understand standard definitions of the different architectures. Bottom Line: a superhet with a DSP is definitely NOT even a Generation One SDR. You must understand that I am not disrespecting Superhets with DSP as we still use K3's at the NX6T Contest Station. However the point I was making and which Walt seemed to misunderstand was that Superhets with DSP after 30+ years have reached the point of diminishing returns where even minor performance improvements cost a lot of money. Due to the fact that they use analog components they do not benefit from Moore's Law. On The Other Hand SDR are just at the beginning of Moore's law so signicant improvement headroom is available without significant cost

Walt - KZ1F

No Howard, I am actually really familiar with Moores Law, as well as Butter's, and Wirth's  et al. My point was...so what?

But I look forward to your presentation.

G4IUA

I have not been fortunate enough in attending Dayton, although I would dearly like to. 

 I would thoroughly recommend a visit to Friedrichshafen in Germany next month (26-27-28 June).  The venue is absolutely superb; a collection of very modern buildings with a vast indoor area accommodating both the usual trade stands as well as a large flea market.  It’s hard for me to compare it with Dayton, but I suspect it is on a much smaller scale (17,100 visitors last year).  However the location in a small town on the shores of a beautiful lake bordering Switzerland and Austria is unbeatable.  Transport is excellent, both by public transport and by car.  Everything is spotless and – I assure you – the toilets work and the food is great!

Klaus (the German FlexRadio representative) speaks excellent English (as do most people there) and the FlexRadio stand always attracts a lot of attention.  Reps from FlexRadio US are often present, with Gerald making a welcome appearance some years. 

There is a lively lecture program, a number of which are in English, and run all 3 days of the show.  I look forward to meeting other FlexRadio operators and staff there next month.

 Jeff – G4IUA

 

W9OY

Thanks to Howard and all for the comments.  Very interesting developments.  I've been fiddling with Flex as SO2R since the F5K days and it's exciting to see this finally coming to fruition as more than an experiment.  The ability to rewrite the software for increased efficiency in workflow is what I believe will put Flex over the top in contesting.  High jumping was all a forward roll over the bar till Fosbury developed the flop.  I think Flex is about to duplicate this phenomena.  Software is a sandbox where innovation can occur.  Very difficult to duplicate this kind of innovation in hardware.

73  W9OY   

KY6LA_Howard

Let me second Jeff's Recommendation of Friedrichshafen. Great Venue. Clean Working Toilets Real conventions center seminar rooms. Been going for 5years now. Real Food. Not the Dayton Dog Food. Great **** Garden This year they are holding a SDR Academy. Klaus, Gerald and I will be speakers. ANYWHERE BUT DAYTON.

Walt - KZ1F

Howard, you should come speak at Boxboro, seriously dude. Clean toilets, good food, hey, New England, you can't hardly beat that, except to go to Duetchland.


Bill -VA3WTB

And maybe a red carpet, right Walt?

Walt - KZ1F

Red carpets have to been earned. I've seen some smoke, not a lick of flame yet. However Howard, I will buy the first round. And from a retired guy, heck, that is worth the flight all by itself.

KY6LA_Howard

Question.. From the Pictures, Boxborough looks pretty small
Just checked Boxborough dates.. Aug 21-23, 2015....

We are supposed to be in Paris on August 24th so likely a bit too tight timing for me to get back to San Diego, turn around to head back to France.

However.. if you make it to Friedrichshafen at the end of June,  I will buy you a Liter of Good Cold German ****...

Or you could come to Prague, Pilsen (Best ****) or Vienna (Best Whipped Cream) in Early July Or perhaps Belgium (Best Chocolate) in early October as I am giving several talks on SDR Architectures there

Walt - KZ1F

I was surprised, there was a pretty large contingent of foreign hams at Boxboro. Yeah, I would guess the venue is smaller, but there are plenty of HUGE convention centers in the area if DARA decided to move 'Dayton' to the greater Boston area.

Not to denigrate Ohio, I did my undergraduate work in Marietta, OH, Steve's description of Dayton, where I have never been, was completely plausible, old, tired, rust belt, failing infrastructure. Too bad Congress can't see it's way clear to free up money for infrastructure improvements. The NE doesn't have that issue, nowhere near like OH does.  With the collapse of Detroit, it took an awful lot of OH with it.

KY6LA_Howard

Nothing really earth shattering.. even the ARRL Letter stated as much

As I said I bought the new portable Antenna Analyzer from SteppIR

Alan WA4SCA

Richard,

I agree with you, except that there is a key feature missing, called Digital FM in SmartSDR, which is found in any VHF/UHF rig over $1k or so.  It is something which was promised at the highest level, Gerald, and which I and a few others need. 

Think if you bought a rig for DXing, only to find that there was no narrow CW filter, and were told that it would be added later.  Imagine later never came.  That is what happened to us.  I would have liked to see one final wrap-up of PowerSDR to fix a few deficiencies and bugs.

73s,

Alan
WA4SCA

Steve-N5AC

Alan, we released Digital FM in v1.4.3.

km9r.mike

I have found the german brewing purity laws have hindered their product. Hard to beat a Leffe or a Hoegaarden (hefeweizen) but then again I am not a big fan of ****.

SteveM

Mike,

I agree with you on Leffe (brown). It's a stout that will slowly develop a thick brown froth. One that needs babysitting after its opened. I first tried it a couple of years ago and is now one of my favorites.

I'm not a **** snob, though. My all time favorite is an American **** - New Belgium's Ranger. You should try it, you might change your mind about ****.

KY6LA_Howard

Best **** is in Pilsen in Czech Republic and Dublin  (going to both place this trip)

But my eldest son owns a winery and XYL can blind taste a wine to tell you which year and vineyard it came from ... so needless to say I am more partial to wines..

km9r.mike

Not a **** snob either just commenting on two eu beers that I found enjoyable. Coworkers who know **** far more than I have also sung the praises of American craft beers. Like Howard I have grown more partial to wine but not near as knowledgeable about it as his wife is.