SSDR 1.4 before the rapture or after the second coming

Bob Forrest

WA2SQQ

Huh?.

KY6LA_Howard

Neither After all bugs have been discovered and fixed

WA2SQQ

Be patient and get over it!

James Kennedy-WU5E

Come On man please wait hi hi

K2CB Eric Dobrowansky

Even the Flex-flavored kool-aid drinkers must admit, this update is well beyond past due. Which means the rest of the items are pushed out that much further into the future. Forget about LAN remote or FM; are we ever going to see the promised "funtionality equivalent to that of the Flex 5000" ? Flex should have concentrated on producing hardware only, and left the software to the open source community. They would have sold many more radios, and we would have all been better off. FWIW, I also owned an ANAN-100D. I sold it to buy the Flex-6500 about a year ago, at which time Flex's sales department assured me the software progress would improve. I am now seriously considering another 100D, as I am missing some of the funtionality and customization OpenHPSDR affords. While the hardware leaves a lot to be desired, the software portion is hard to beat. If Flex had gone the open source route, no one would even know the name Apache Labs, as there would not have been any competion hardware-wise. Now if I could only have he functionality of OpenHPSDR with Flex hardware.......... Eric K2CB

KY6LA_Howard

@Eric

From your comments "well beyond Past due" it is pretty obvious you have never been involved in the process of INVENTING something that has never been done before. If you had you would understand that when one tries to in event something new all sorts of unknowns crop up that not only have be found and understood but also need to be solved Sometimes the first few guesses at solutions cause other unknowns to appear which also need to be fixed.

The so-called "Open Source" solution is in fact a regurgitation of a **** PIPE / **** CLIENT system found in the first and second generation SDR. The Flex is a 3rd generation Thin Pipe/Thin Clent architecture where most of the systems processing is handled in hardware. Trying to mould 2nd Generaion software into a 3rd generation hardware platform would likely be much more difficult than starting from scratch like Flex did witn SSDR. Sort of like trying to fit a model T engine into a Ferrari

K2CB Eric Dobrowansky

Yes, but if the new "thin client" platform began as an open source project, I believe it would be much further along by now.

Peter Bentley

Sadly Eric you are correct.

FlexRadio may need to learn the hard way.

When you make a promise to customers, you must keep to it.

Without us they have no business, they need to remember that.

Right now they have lost all credibility to deliver on time.

We are still with you Flex at the moment, but you are pushing our patience too far.

KY6LA_Howard

They. Have corrected the issue of ON TIME. They will no longer publish relesse dates so they can never again have an "on Time" issue. In the future

IW7DMH, Enzo

I learned that in the new Flex the magic happens entirely into the rig.
The client can be as thin as an Arduino and your Flex still can work.
At the moment this is simply not possible for other sdr rigs.

DrTeeth

The problem is Howard, that they decided to clam up (totally) at the wrong time, close to the estimated date of a release. People are protesting more that the lack of news IMHO. 1.4 is good enough to show at rallies, have a video made of it, it was declared weeks ago that there was one last bug to fix and for Gerald to say it had been running all night with 8 slices open. All that infers "very soon", and that was months ago.

I have no problem at all with no further publishing of release dates, but I would like progress reports as in the past

I understand what you say below, but FRS should come clean if there has been a major problem...and it sounds like there has been.

The way FRS has handled this does not do it credit and can only damage the brand. What is it that they say about reputations, years to build and seconds to ruin?

They picked the worst possible time to stay schtum and keep its previously well-updated customers in the dark.

An authoritative statement from FRS NOW would mitigate the damage done by this public relations disaster. I am not concerned about the date of the release itself - 1.4 it has to be right; but to say it is almost ready and then not let it see the light of day for months after that is not good.

k3Tim

tedious

Bill -VA3WTB

There is no open source software that can do what they plan on doing with SSDR. The code just can not be worked to sample at such a wide range. And it is **** client, won't do.

Bill -VA3WTB

Your right Howard, but most these guys will never understand this .lol I think some of these guys are visiting from the Anan group and they likely don't even own a Flex. I hear them trash Flex every day.

W5XZ - dan

maybe it's Win 10 (beta) compatibility issues ??
"I prefer a bad excuse, to no news..."

Barry Comer

As a customer and long term software developer that has worked on very large complex projects I have some comments for the thread.

They are correct that discoveries are made along the way when developing a piece of software of this complexity. Your best understanding of the problem is when the last line of code has been written. It is rare that all issues are foreseen and scheduled in advance.

While the remote feature is cool there are other features that should have been cleared off of the table first (e.g. ATU memories). This part of the discussion I get and everyone has their own priority list. Personally, I miss the binaural audio feature of PowerSDR as it opened the "sound stage" and reduced listening fatigue.

Relying on the Open Source community is double edged and has it own pluses and minuses on a project by project basis. The bottom line is that Flex Radio is a business and for it to continue it requires a trusting customer base. This is really hard to achieve in this "I want it now" world. Deliver early with a bug ridden product and failure is ensured, deliver late with a solid product and you get better respect from me.

Please listen, get the basic functionality (e.g. memories, noise reduction etc.) off the table then add the edge cases like remote. If someone wants remote operation there are lots of solutions in place until it is offered by the mothership.

Almost done, for me the binaural audio feature would be really cool and used during each session. The "every day" items are what is important for a piece of hardware of this level.

Richard McClelland, AA5S

You could always do like me, wait a few years to make a purchase.  As a Flex 1500 - SDR 2.7.2 user, I'm only blithely aware of 1.4 and related release date issues.  (It doesn't make much sense for me to move to another hardware platform when my shack computer has been co-opted for Minecraft activities. )

Bill -VA3WTB

The problem is this remote effects almost everything in the radio, remote needs to be in now to see what it is effecting. After this is nailed down and understood other features can be added after understanding how they will be effected.

Barry Comer

A very valid point - sir!

Tim - W4TME

The answers to the post questions are "YES" and "NO", respectively.  
I can guarantee those dates ;-)

I appreciate and completely understand your frustration over the release delays and I ask for a little more patience as we are getting close to a release.  I can guarantee you that everyone in Austin wants to get this new code into our customer's hands a lot more than you could ever imagine.  But we have instituted a more ridged quality assurance process to provide you with a quality product so that your user experience will be a quality one.

The delays have nothing to do with Win10, or anything like that.

The extent of the code re-factoring and internal optimizations we have done with v1.4 to properly support the included feature set is EXTENSIVE.  This requires a level of regression testing that is not normally required for a simple feature release.  This level of testing has delayed the release, but has improved the overall quality and operational stability of the radio.

Over the last several weeks we have been cutting multiple alpha releases per week for testing.  Each one is significantly better than the last.  The frequency of our internal alpha releases is indicative that we are in the final stages of polishing the release.

Please be just a little more patient.  We really are getting close.

Mike - N8MSA

I'm a (semi-retired) embedded systems programmer, and I think that Tim can confirm that I'm not a "Kool-aide drinker".

I think that we tend to forget that most of the people working on this are fellow hams, learning as they go and this been this way since the beginning of FRS. I would also remind everyone that the Signature Series, despite being based on signal-intelligence products, is a significant departure from all of their previous amateur products. 

I don't envy the task that FRS has: balancing feature requests against basic code quality. I'm not making excuses for FRS, as I don't think that anyone needs to make excuses for them, but I think that the delays are not unreasonable and I don't think it makes a lot of sense for them to post constant updates about how many bugs they fixed, or how they changed a library file.

You all can do what you want, but my opinion is that this a toy, and I would rather have my toy work correctly than get my toy "right now". YMMV...

73,

Mike - N8MSA

Barry Comer

Tim, keep on testing - a stable product is required.

As a customer and after the refactoring has completed I would personally like to see the date schedule return with "approximate" scheduling. I cannot relate to FRS how important this is. Are the dates written in stone - no, but these forums are an excellent source of information for prioritizing features if you can filter out the "noise".

Tim - W4TME

I can confirm that Mike does not have a Kool-aide mustache :-)

Ken - NM9P

Richard, I started SDRs with a 1500 two years ago, and quickly upgraded to a 6500. My opinion is that by waiting for the software to be "perfect" before purchase you are only denying yourself the pleasure of the best receiver out there. The only major functionality I miss is the Noise Blanker, and by careful adjustment of NB and AGC-T I can make do. But I all other areas the 6500 is a superior rig that has gotten better with every release. I don't refuse to eat a good steak just because it might have a small **** of **** in the wrong place. I cut around it and enjoy. But I know people who do. And others who won't eat a banana if it has a single small spot on the peeling.

Richard McClelland, AA5S

There are a number of factors at play in my decision not to upgrade hardware at the moment but waiting on perfect software isn't part of the equation.  I am curious as to whether there will be new hardware announced at Dayton this year, but perhaps that's better left for another thread.

DH2ID

Tim, 1.3.8.126 is stable, running well, have had abt. 1k digital QSO's until now with my new 6500. I'm looking forward to 1.4 but not biting my fingernails - yet. BTW my mustache is not kool-aid dyed. I still use salt water, as a sailor....

Steve W6SDM

 What I keep hearing here is the same thing I hear when the grand kids are in the car on a trip to the amusement park, which is, "Are we there yet?"

Bill -VA3WTB

Almost, just around the next corner, and over the next hill, next light, oops got to stop for gas sorry.

Richard G7EIX

This?  Again?

ctate243

Tim this is only meant to be constructive and not wining.. I think delays happen.. stuff happens..  but when a release is months past due, it could be good to sort of give regular customer updates to keep the qrm down.  maybe a weekly or bi-weekly status and or a release date has been revised to **** because of the major rework involved in completely changing the interface..and here is what is going on behind the scenes.  Solid communication and transparency is the best bet when dealing with a technical customer base IMHO.  Also an open beta program would be another way to keep down the qrm.. Elecraft has used this model for years.. offering beta versions of software to the customer base with a disclaimer that it is not fully ready for prime time.  something to consider.

Thanks for your work and you are doing a great job and these are just suggestions.   Hopefully we will have a lot of happy campers once this gets done.