Updated PowerSDR?

Dan KG0AQ

Is there a new version of PowerSDR cooking in the FlexRadio oven?
V2.7.2 is running stable here, but is now +1 year old software.
TIA!  73

Rick

My guess is we will not see another version as Smart SDR and its essential upgrades for unimplemented features seems to have their full attention. I'm afraid we have legacy radios and software systems....but I still love my 5000 V/U.
Rick
W2JAZ

Bill -VA3WTB

PSDR is open source, I don't think they will pore money into it just so everyone else can enjoy it other than Flex users.

Dan KG0AQ

I've been around since the SDR-1000 days and became spoiled with a new software
package everyday! hi hi  They have supported quite a few other upstart SDR hardware  companies with their ground breaking software though. But a new era has begun with
the SmartSDR package.

John

Perhaps Flex should bring out a new version of powersdr and charge a fee for it, this way they can keep delivering the updates for it. Ofcourse, that's if its all about money. I would pay $100 per update if its 2 yearly.

KY6LA_Howard

Math does not work. You want to pay $50/ year. Let's say there are as many as 1,000 paying customers. This is $50,000 per annum. Nowhere near enough to cover the costs and overhead of even one programmer. Aliso much of the code is open source so they can't charge money for it.

John

It was only a rough figure, but the programmers are already working for flex, so their salary is carried by them and proably paid in part by the sales of flex transceivers in general. . They would ofcourse do a survey and see how many flex users would pay up. It does not matter about how much of the code is open source, they are providing a software package which happens to have open source code.

Rick

About every 2 years or so I have to spend $100-150 to upgrade various software applications that I use on a regular basis. They account for improvements and of course changes to the computer OS that often require software upgrades. Given the investment I already have in my Flex5000A v/u and the amount of time I use it regularly and how much I still enjoy it's high quality, I'd be willing to do the same - pay an upgrade fee periodically to ensure that my radio doesn't become obsolete before its time. I look at my classic radio tablecloth a Kenwood 520s, drake TR7 and TR4 in particular and realize how well they still work. I'd like to think that this will be the case with my Flex radio, but I somehow doubt it. It will be interesting to see 25 years from now if I'm right and if the more high end competitive Yaesu, Kenwood, elecraft and other knob and dial radios that encorporate similar SDR technologies will still be on Hams tables and in use. I doubt I'll be around to see...hi hi!

Bill -VA3WTB

They will have to come out with a new software for the 3000 1500 and 5000. There is know way they will update PSDR and have everyone with Icom and Yeasu and Kenwood take advantage of there work. And the cost would be huge. As Howard said they can't charge for it.

They are already tied up with the SSDR, how do you think they would have the time or people to do this?

PSDR is complete and very stable. What sort of things would you change in PSDR?
As It is open source you don't need flex to do this,,any one can make changes as they wish.

They did this for the Anon, changed PSDR to work with that radio as they needed.

Kuby, N6JSX

I asked the same question last year when I got my Flex3000, and I was told all their effort is being put into the 6000 line. Soon after they killed the 3000, officially. Flex told me they MAYbe issuing a minor bug fix version in the future for PwrSDR - I just hope it fixes the nearly useless DSP/NR/NB functions.

Hence, I do not trust Flex and not willing to pay the large sums for a 6000 when they will likely dump 6000-SmartSDR support when move on to 7000's.

Bill -VA3WTB

They have taken the PSDR about as far as they can. The software is complete. On my 3000 the NB works very well, I spent some time adjusting the settings for it to find the sweet spot. I find most people do not understand the relationship of the NB and the AGC-T. Without any filters I get great resalts from adjusting the AGC-T to **** noise and I still hear weak signals.

Burch - K4QXX

My NB on my 5000 is fantastic!  Cuts down my 20 over S9 powerline noise on 160 meters down to S7-S8.  Can't wait until the 6500 works that well.

Dan KG0AQ

I too like the NB & NB2. However, I am indifferent to the NR & ANF.  I seem to remember older versions of the software working better on the NR & ANF?  I would think it would be in Flex's best interest to keep PowerSDR updated frequently as they still sell the 1500 & 3000 as new units. They are still bugs present in 2.7.2.

DrTeeth

See para 3 here https://helpdesk.flexradio.com/hc/en-us/articles/202530768-Support-Status-for-the-FLEX-5000-and-FLEX... which was posted on November last year.

I agree, as what happens to PowerSDR users today could be the future of SSDR. FRS needs to play this very carefully for that reason alone.

KY6LA_Howard

Flex only sells the 1500.. until the 6100(?) low end radio comes out (Dayton?)

It makes absolutely no business sense whatsoever to continue to develop PowerSDR.  PowerSDR is mostly open source and is used by the competition.  Any development dollars poured into PowerSDR detracts from the limited money available to produce better and better versions of their primary product SSDR and only helps the competition.  Further the old Flex 1st Generation hardware platform is rather limited in possibilities..

PowerSDR is an end of Life Product... just like Windows XP is an end of life product.   As much as people would love to see new developments for XP.. MS who is substantially wealthier than Flex does not spend $$ on XP anymore.

By contrast, SSDR which is harbinger of the 3rd Generation SDR Platform is only scratching the potential of the existing hardware and has all sorts of amazing future possibilities...

The silly part of this discussion is that no one complains that Yaesu, Icom, Kenwood do not bring out new releases with new features for their existing radios...  With them you are stuck with the old limitiations forever...

Yet somehow people expect Flex to work for free.. Last time I looked the power company still wants to get paid...

I am willing to bet that if there were a Paid Subscription (illegal in Open Source) for PowerSDR upgrades that there would not be sufficient economic demand to underwrite the costs of even one programmer...  (figure a minimum of $100K per year in Texas or $150K per year in CA) let alone the true costs of continued development of PowerSDR.

DrTeeth

As much as I agree with you Howard, I was quoting a source that I assume was officially sanctioned.

KY6LA_Howard

@GUY

I missed the line

"....PowerSDR and will continue to be supported in the software, receiving feature enhancements and bug fixes."

Still think there is not a good business case for investing any money into PowerSDR, but I suppose a few crumbs will go a long way to keeping the people happy.

Just don't want to see them divert their very limited resources to a non revenue producing product line...unless they can find a way to get the PowerSDR users to PAY for them.  Hams being cheap and already used to getting free updates.. that is not going to happen....

Kuby, N6JSX

Hark, you are justifying your argument citing apples to carrots.

"The silly part of this discussion is that no one complains that Yaesu, Icom, Kenwood do not bring out new releases with new features for their existing radios...  With them you are stuck with the old limitiations forever..."

The big three radios had known limitations and they did not sell their radios on the premise of future radio improvements via software programs.

Flex distinguished itself as THEE NEW RADIO revolution with SDR touting the ever improvements of their radios via program revisions" as a SALES POINT. Most of us bought into the legacy Flex's due to this SALES POINT. 

WinXP has been out for how many years and how many years have they told all of the pending "stop support"? Did we get the same time period and notification time frame of dropping the Legacies, NO. So do not try to equate the two, again apples and this time prunes.

We see you love your Flex(s), but stop attempting to discredit the arguments with your obvious bias. Thank you. 

What we need to see is a Flex commitment date for the next PwrSDR revision! With this date a list of items that will be improved/added/changed.

Another reason beyond what I already have stated, I do not trust Flex NOT to dump 6000 support when they jump to 7000's, is this VERY EXPENSIVE 6000 line now requires and added annual fee for SSDR bug fixes.  Now find an annual gouge comparison to Icom, Kwood, Yaesu, Alinco, TT?  

DrTeeth

There will still be bug fixes in the v1.x line of SSDR, so we have been told. The annual fee will not be for bug fixes but new features.

That is why FRS needs to be very careful what they do after their (I assume) official statement made Nov 2014 regarding support for PowerSDR. If the owners of the 6000 series get spooked, it could cause irreparable damage to FRS' good standing.

Joe

My biggest reason for buying the 5K was because I would see regular updates, as Flex promoted. I was not pleased with Flex dropping the 5K but if they drop PowerSDR updates, I will not consider their products in the future. That is customer-no-support in my book. 

John

The irritating part is their lack of response to people's concerns on this forum.

Bill -VA3WTB

Time to just move on John, It makes no sense to create a new software for the 1500, 3000 and 5000 radios. And no they can't charge for changes made in PSDR. The PSDR is stable and works very well as I said and I have been able to do wonders with the DSP after finding the settings it needs and also adjusting the AGC-T correctly makes it all work well.

As I read hear your concerns have been addressed.

Tim - W4TME

We have not terminated or curtailed our commitment or support to our valued customers who use PowerSDR with our FLEX Series SDRs.

PowerSDR is a feature rich and very stable SDR software package, providing a comprehensive operating experience for users of the FLEX Series SDRs.  As such, at this point in its 10 year plus development life cycle, the frequency of releases will be less than they have been in the past.

We are firmly committed to addressing to the best of our ability any fatal software defects that prevents PowerSDR from operating in supported Windows environments for the foreseeable future.  New PowerSDR software to address other non-fatal issues may be released at our discretion based on criticality and the number of users affected.  At this time there are no such issues that rise to this level, therefore there is not a time table nor have we set expectations for when a new PowerSDR release may occur.

PowerSDR and the FLEX Series of SDRs are not obsolete or out of date by any means. Presently it does and will provide years of operating enjoyment, as the FLEX Series of SDRs are still some of the best performing ham radios available and at their current and previous prices, represent an exceptional value for any ham radio operator. 

As we have stated publicly, the architecture of PowerSDR and the FLEX Series of SDRs is too limiting as a continued development platform for the type of innovative features we envision for software defined radios.  This is why we developed the SmartSDR ecosystem for the Signature Series SDRs and have focused our current development resources to the next generation of SDR technology.  But this does not mean that there may never be any future new features for PowerSDR.

PowerSDR is an open source application.  Consequently, this provides unfettered opportunities for experimenters of the FLEX Series SDRs to add incremental features, bug fixes and additional capabilities they feel are useful to the PowerSDR community.  Based on the current stage of the PowerSDR life cycle, expending energy to establish a grassroots effort to encourage and support the software development of a PowerSDR variant by others would be a worthwhile endeavor.  We may even incorporate some of those changes provided by the open source development community and integrate them into the mainstream PowerSDR software depending on their global value.

John

thank you Flex Radio for your reply, we can all now rest easy and enjoy our transceivers whatever they may be from big to small. This is all we ever wanted. May I ask, how many update proposals has Flex Radio received so far and are they being looked at?

Kuby, N6JSX

And Tim, when (date) is the next PwrSDR revision to be released?
And when will PwrSDR manual (2010) reflect 'all' of the PwrSDR new & improved fetchers?

KY6LA_Howard

TIM WROTE in his message ABOVE

"there is not a time table nor have we set expectations for when a new PowerSDR release may occur."

Jay Nation

Kuby
I don't think Date is part of the Flexradio lexicon anymore, and thats a good thing. Our guess == your guess. 

Jay - NO5J

Kuby, N6JSX

So in affect Tim gave us a placating warm and fuzzy nothing for PwrSDR.

Nice to see Flex has such an energetic drum ****, in Howard.

John

At least it was not an outright NO MORE UPDATES. For now, I am happy but lets wait and see what happens a few mid year.

Jay Nation

John 
They have already committed to, and provided updates to PowerSDR at no extra charge. A little late to start charging now. Updates happen when they happen, Anyone that wants to create PaySDR is free to write their own version from scratch. Good luck competing with the other free Open Source alternatives. Amazing we can even complain about, free. Tim stated the reality, PowerSDR works the way it's intended to at the moment. You have all you've paid for. Source code is available, and free.

Does possessing a fossil entitle us to a free dinosaur.  Dinosaurs are free, make as many as you want. ;0)

When bugs have a fix, they get fixed, not before, it requires a fix first. To get someone busy on fixing bugs, bugs have to be reported. there isnt a fix for PowerSDR NR yet. When there is, it will benefit more than just Flexradio owners. NR can be made to work better by adjusting AGC-T and tweaking the NR settings. NB works as is. Report your bugs, get them fixed. 

Steve W6SDM

I don't believe this.  If you have a legacy Flex radio, it will be supported with bug fixes and the like.  If you want to be part of the up and coming development and "science projects", then you need to get a 6000 series.  The 6300 is priced as an entry level radio even though it has capabilities are advanced and they benefit from the Smart SDR software development.

It's unreasonable to expect Flex to put programming resources and capital into the legacy series other than to support it with maintenance.  

One of my cars is a 2005 BMW.  It has 200,000 miles on it and it still runs great and looks great.  The first 100,000 miles, I took it in to the dealer, dropped it off, picked up a loaner, and they did whatever was necessary without charging me a penny.  Today, I still go to the dealer but I get a bill for the oil change and whatever else they do - and I have to rent a car if I need one.  They have always provided great service but if I want the free loaner and other goodies, I need to buy a new BMW.  If I want the new voice activated navigation system that comes with the 2015 models, I need to buy a new car (or buy one on the open marked and have it installed myself).  I don't see anything wrong with that.

There are many people who will benefit from the Flex legacy radios, including current owners and those getting into SDR for the first time.  You can pick up a 3000 for a really decent price and find out if you want to deal with SDR before you make a bigger financial commitment.  And for those who buy one as their first SDR, they have access to hardware and software support through Flex.  Nothing wrong with that.