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microphone level

2

Answers

  • DK1EY
    DK1EY Member
    edited June 2020
    Behringer MIC200 - $49.99 

    Works fine here!
  • Barry N1EU
    Barry N1EU Member ✭✭
    edited December 2016
    I just remembered that the Flex 6K does all the dsp inside the radio and not the computer like PowerSDR so on second thought you'd be paying too much for just using the preamp functionality of the Forcusrite 2i2.
  • Ken - NM9P
    Ken - NM9P Member ✭✭
    edited December 2016
    Actually, on my 6500, recording myself through the "quick record" feature does not sample after the filtering and compression and is not an accurate picture of what I sound like.  I have confirmed this by recording it this way, and comparing it to recordings made with the I/Q recording feature on my Flex-1500, both of them running into my Bose Companion 2 speakers.  When I shift TX bandwidth from 65-3000 Hz with Compression at DX to 200-2900 Hz & Compressor on DX+ there is a BIG difference on my recorded audio on the 1500/PSDR.  But I can tell very little difference on my recording made directly on the 6500 "quick record" feature.  Nothing beats a 2nd receiver for monitoring Audio quality.
  • np2g
    np2g Member
    edited November 2015
    Besides the 2i2 being a fantastic preamp it opens the door for most of the digital audio processing programs. Vst,s etc. With this said it is having every piece of rack gear at your fingertips.
  • KM6CQ - Dan
    KM6CQ - Dan Member ✭✭
    edited October 2018
    To be brief, I use a Plantronics CS361N RF headset. It is a transformed output.  I then use a Symetrix 528E. I take advantage the parametric EQ, Downward Expander and Compressor. 
    The end result is my TX audio is equivalent to my RE20, so much I only use the headset these days. The Symetrix is configured to not allow the mic gain to go over 0 on the meter. The Symetrix also has Balanced I/O Thank you Flex for providing a balanced input. 
  • WA8SRA
    WA8SRA Member
    edited November 2015
    Howard,

    I have had the same experience. The background noise is definitely not clean here.  In fact, without a microphone connected to the input of the 6300, and the radio in TX mode connected to a dummy load, while monitoring in an external receiver I can hear (and see on a panadapter) a tight grouping of 5 or 6 'tones' spaced about 2 KHz apart. I suspect this correlates to your description of a 'whirring' sound. It is made many times worse by engaging the 20 dB preamp!

    I was attempting to use a standard Heil HC5 element, but it required such a high 'mic' level setting in addition to the 20 dB preamp, that the result sounded very bad. So, I happened to have a Heil HM-10 microphone (with an HC5 cartridge) that I had years ago modified by building a single transistor amplifier into the microphone housing for use w/ my K2. It worked great. If I use that same microphone with the 6300, I can keep the 20 dB preamp OFF, and set the Mic level to about 35, and the results sounds excellent an the external receiver.

    73, Dale
    WA8SRA

  • Howard -W6HDG
    Howard -W6HDG Member
    edited September 2015
    Dale, Thanks very much for that info. Please pass it along to Flex as I filed a ticket on the issue. Dudley at Flex was very responsive and has passed things along to engineering. Dudley writes, "I had an engineer duplicate the mic input noise on the bench, still trying to find the source looks like it will need to be further investigated." I too think it is partly a mic level problem since electret mics and (pre)amplifiers seem to help according to the reports throughout this thread. So there is hope that this can be solved in software. Flex 6300 owners should not have to work this hard to get good TX audio and be able to monitor their audio comfortably. 73, Howard W6HDG
  • np2g
    np2g Member
    edited November 2015
    Hello

      Please read the  mike  specs.  The Heil  has  600 OHMS output impediance . This is why you need the +20 DB or more. This is why the audio is LOW . 


    It is not the radio ....  It's not the program ..... 





  • Howard -W6HDG
    Howard -W6HDG Member
    edited September 2015
    It most certainly is the radio.....   If you can take a standard ham headset like the Heil Elite Pro 6 and it sounds TERRIFIC with ample gain/punch on the Yaesu's and Kenwood's of the world....and it sounds weak and cruddy on a Flex 6300, then the Flex needs work.  The average ham (who the Flex 6300 is designed for) is not going to spring for special mics and preamps.   Let's face it, the Flex 6300 is a phenomenal invention at a great price point and I'd like to recommend it to every new ham who can afford one (before they develop bad "knob habits"), but I'm not going to recommend it until the mic/MON issue is resolved.  I can be patient for everything else on the Flex timeline :)
  • Tim - W4TME
    Tim - W4TME Administrator, FlexRadio Employee admin
    edited March 2017
    I have added a defect to our bug tracker to investigate this reported issue.
  • Howard -W6HDG
    Howard -W6HDG Member
    edited September 2015
    I am spending money and still having trouble with the TX audio on the 6300. I need help. I bought an Electret headset/ Foster plug with the 5v pin enabled (all from W2ENY). Comments as follows: The background whirring is gone since I can reduce the mic slider to 50 and shut off +20db boost and the monitor sounds better and richer. But I still have a slight echo I can't seem to shake. Even with zero watts out - so this is not RF. Audio reports are still awful. I switch to my Yaesu and get great reports. With the 6300 I am still hearing 'too much bass and not clear' even after playing with EQ for hours. I tried monitoring myself on a second receiver but I am getting nearly a half second audio delay! What is up with that? Aren't I transmitting in real time with the 6300? My PC is an i7 win 7 64 bit so not a latency issue I would think. Thanks. Howard W6HDG
  • Howard -W6HDG
    Howard -W6HDG Member
    edited September 2015
    Follow up on above.
    The 6300 stock MONitor and mic circuits/levels all still need work in my opinion.  Especially the MON circuit.  I hope FLEX is listening - with a 6300, Heil headset and with the MON on and turned way up so you can hear yourself and the whirring, echoing crud!!  It's not my particular radio as I've worked helping to set up 3 local 6300's which we all bought at Dayton.  All suffer the same issues. The radio should have never been released like this in my opinion.  I've spoken with Bob Heil and he is investigating too.

    I bought a Behringer preamp as suggested in this thread and that eliminates the whirring and echo ENTIRELY. It adds a tiny bit of background noise as you would expect but the whirring and echo are GONE. Flex needs to make changes so that one shouldn't have to buy expensive Electret mics and preamps. The radio should sound great with just a Heil dynamic 6 headset and some EQ adjustments.

    Bottom line: with the Electret mic or the Heil+Behringer I have finally found EQ settings that sound OK and I'm working DX with them.  I even get some "good audio" reports. BUT, if I switch to my Yaesu with the same mics, the edge clearly goes to the Yaesu.  EVERYONE says "More Punch, sounds terrific" with the Yaesu. The Flex is "good" until I do the A/B testing. DX is important to me. I realize that I am being very critical but I'm thinking of selling the 6300 and putting the money towards my new tower. 

    I'm willing to do a sched with Flex staff if you'd like to hear the on-air difference.....

    Howard W6HDG 
  • KY6LA_Howard
    KY6LA_Howard La Jolla, CA. Paris and Sablet FranceMember ✭✭✭
    edited January 2017
    Howard Suggest you wait to Release 1.3 to see if they changed the audio gain in the transmit audio chain MON I must admit that I think that ur rather unique in wanting to Monitor ur SSB Audio Transmit chain continuously I can see the point with CW but with SSB once u set it correctly it would seem to be redundant to continue to listen to it.. Plus most radios only give u the transmit audio chain audio and NOT the actual audio as it would be decoded from after the final amplifier, So the MON really does not tell u very much about the actual transmit audio in SSB. As I have said, I do not have this issue with my RadioSport headset (definitely not a Heil) on my 6700.
  • Ken - NM9P
    Ken - NM9P Member ✭✭
    edited June 2020
    Howard, I am one who almost always listens to my audio as I transmit in order to prevent falling into bad mike and speech habits.  I guess it is a throwback to my brief broadcasting days when in college.

    But from what I remember hearing, having a tap of actual post-processed - i.e. after EQ, Filtering, and Processing, is not a great option on the 6000 series because of the "idiot box factor"  which is that the processing delay before returning the audio to the headphones would fall right into that precise delay window that scrambles the brain if you try to listen to yourself and talk at the same time. (making your sound like an idiot...) Shorter, you can handle.  Longer you can ignore.  But the right amount of delay is killer.  

    I have experienced it back in the 80's when many of the repeaters had a bucket-brigade delay in order to eliminate the squelch tail noise.  Guys would walk up behind someone talking on their HT and play the repeater outback on their own HT and then we would all laugh at the incomprehensible confusion that would emit from the original speaker.
    I don't think this would bode well for Flex Owners!

    While we may not get "actual" post-processed audio in our monitors, I still use it all the time just to monitor my technique and find it very valuable.
  • Howard -W6HDG
    Howard -W6HDG Member
    edited September 2015
    Hi Howard and Ken,
    I really have two issues - 1) Monitoring - I like it since it keeps me awake while operating :), but much more importantly, 2) Transmit Audio. Flex is OK but not great.  I'd be happy to A/B over the air with anyone who wants to listen to an FTdx3000 vs Flex 6300 while I still own the Flex.  I may be nitpicking but the people who buy the Flex 6300 are not choosing a Kenwood/Yaesu/Icom which can easily have outstanding audio without external devices.  
  • KY6LA_Howard
    KY6LA_Howard La Jolla, CA. Paris and Sablet FranceMember ✭✭✭
    edited January 2017
    I do not know if the 6300 transmit audio chain is different than my 6700 but I get superb audio reports from my 6700 with my $400 RadioSport Headset and even via DAX with my $25 Logitech headset. In fact, my reports were so much better on my 6700 than my Icom that I dumped the Icom.
  • Fred Lindsey
    Fred Lindsey Member
    edited November 2014
    On my 6300, I also use the Heil Pro Set Elite 6, and my settings are the same as yours. I have not noticed any background noise, but I am a little hard of hearing. I do get good reports.

  • Kev Mallin
    Kev Mallin Member
    edited January 2017
    I took the plunge a purchased a 6300, but after a day of farting about trying to get rid of the whirring I'm a bit fed up, trying to use an md100 with it and it need's the +20 and a high mic gain , you guessed it , should of found this thread it would have saved me a day chasing my arse. Even without the mic connected and at 1w into a dummy load on any mode I get the whirring . Has this been resolved by Flex , does my radio need to go back to be moded . Regards Kev
  • Howard -W6HDG
    Howard -W6HDG Member
    edited September 2015
    Not to be discouraging, but Flex never addressed my whirring, non punchy audio and I sold my 6300. I tried several mics and even bought a preamp If you don't sound fantastic with a MD100, I would ask Flex for assistance. This is NOT RF at 1W into a dummy load and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. I hope you get the radio going since the receiver is so darn good. But I like working SSB DX and I would A/B the Flex 6300 with my Yaesu FTdx3000 and the Yaesu TX audio won by a mile.
  • Dale KB5VE
    Dale KB5VE Member ✭✭
    edited March 2017
    Wow I was amazed at the number of comments on this subject. What is the best mic to use? The one you like , smart elec answer but as you can see that is what has just been said. I love the PR 40 and a heil pro 5 headset. I was concerned about the need for the 20 db boost so I called tim and we talked. One statement he made really got my attention, he said you want as little Dsp gain in the audio circuit as possible, he said I run a mic preamp and gave me the name and model. I got off the phone and called a very good friend in the musical recording business and is a electronic eng. he said he agreed big time with what I was told. Dsp is great but he said keeping gain low in the Dsp would produce a cleaner response. I bought a unit that had a tube in the preamp and it was the best thing I did. I run my mic gain at 17 no 20 db Boout in the flex 6500 but I do have the 25 db boost on on the mic preamp. I have no RFI running legal limit. Everybody said sounds great until v 1.4 but I changed the eq settings and I am ok again. Just my two cents worth and I have had several mad 100 fair mic but not on my top ten.
  • Andrew VK5CV
    Andrew VK5CV Member ✭✭
    edited November 2015

    Dale,

    Which preamp are you using? I have a 6500 too and am considering a mic amp.

    I have used a bargain Yamaha DM-105 dynamic with great results. +20dB and mid range mic gain. Its output spec is -54dBV/Pa at 500 Ohms.

    But I like hands free for contests. The Shure WH20XLR headset mic is 13dB down on the Yamaha and I need to close talk the mic at +20dB and mic gain at 100. Its spec is -67dBV/Pa at "150 (200)" Ohms. So it needs some boost.

    Andrew VK5CV

  • Tim - W4TME
    Tim - W4TME Administrator, FlexRadio Employee admin
    edited December 2016
    I am using the Studio Projects VTB1 V Series mic preamp.  http://www.studioprojectsusa.com/vtb1_review.htm
  • Dale KB5VE
    Dale KB5VE Member ✭✭
    edited March 2015
    I was getting ready to buy the one Tim has and I found one named TubeMP/C it has a few more features and a very good rating and is very reasonable.
  • Kev Mallin
    Kev Mallin Member
    edited December 2015
    Howard the audio is great with the md100, its the bloody whirring noise that's the problem, if I lower the mic gain enough to get rid of the whirring I might as well stick my head out of the window and shout CQ!!! It was fantastic on the flex1500.
  • KY6LA_Howard
    KY6LA_Howard La Jolla, CA. Paris and Sablet FranceMember ✭✭✭
    edited March 2015
    Sure sounds like the infamous PIn1 RFI problem even with 1W. Into a dummy load. IIRC some 6300 went back to the factory for an ECO (?) and/some mechanical fix to correct this issue. Someone else may recall the actual solution.
  • Andrew VK5CV
    Andrew VK5CV Member ✭✭
    edited November 2015
    Went to the local sound shop to look at the Tube MP. They only had the Tube MP/C in stock. The guy sharpened his pencil so that is what I got.
  • Dale KB5VE
    Dale KB5VE Member ✭✭
    edited March 2015
    Great I sit mine on top of the radio with a short cable in the balanced position. I love it.
  • Norm - W7CK
    Norm - W7CK Member ✭✭
    edited June 2020
    Please don't get me wrong, I love my 6700 but I do have audio issues with the mic

    I use a PR-40 on my 6700 with the best quality cables I could find going to the BAL input on the back of the rig .  The mic settings are +20 ON, mic gain at 90 and PROC at DX+.  Low cut 100, High Cut 3200.  I have spent a lot of time with friends and other receivers with recorders trying to get the audio adjusted.  So far, the verdict is that it is acceptable.  I've had lots of SSB contacts and have NEVER had anyone tell me that the audio was exceptional.  

    Mic gain is just barley enough.  I can't understand why a separate mic preamp would be necessary with a rig costing this much.  The last thing I want is a bunch of additional gear and cables in the shack just to sound like a $1,200 Kenwood.

    The PR-40 is a pretty good microphone and works on several other rigs without issue.  IMO more mic gain should have been built into the 6000, but then maybe its just an adjustment that can be made through software?

    For now, I'll use it the way it is and hope for improvement in future software releases.  If in the future I get a cabinet to mount all of my equipment in, I may look into a mic preamp at that time.

    Don't misunderstand, I love the 6700 and for now the audio is acceptable.  I'm just saying - "out of the box the audio should be better and not require additional 3rd party equipment".

  • Howard -W6HDG
    Howard -W6HDG Member
    edited September 2015
    Norm, Very well said. Flex Radio should get a hold of a Kenwood TS-590 and a Yaesu FTdx1200/3000 and do some intensive A<> B testing. TX audio needs to be addressed pronto and the monitor circuit and audio TX quality/punch needs to improved out of the box IMO.

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