microphone level

Lewis Cheek

Not to beat a dead horse, but what do most folks find to be a typical microphone level setting?

I have used two dynamic microphones ( Heil Goldline Pro and cheap headset) that worked well on my Flex 3000. I find that I need to use the 20 db setting and a level in the range of 85-90 to obtain drive when close talking.

For most of my operating I DON'T like using a desk mic or boom mounted microphone, as I like the freedom to move around the operating position and not have to stay focused on where the microphone is located.

Any recommendations on a good ON-THE-EAR dual headset? I do contests at times and find the
over the ear ones just to hot after a couple of hours.

73's
Lew

np2g

First the necessity to use 20 db boost. Says the mike is not producing enough audio. Secondly. The mic input all to the right. Also says the same thing. If you would provide 0db out of your mike most likely. There would be no necessity for the 20 db boost or the level to be all to the right. I see that control anywhere from 30 to 60. To achieve that 0 level indication. I use a yahama Mike boom / headset Cm 500. on my kx3. An perfect choice for me. Over the ear headset I really like the audio technica ath m 50. For me it's sound is accurate for my hearing

John n0snx

I have used the KOSS SB-45 for quite a few years now.... They works great... not too heavy, so i don't get fatigued when wearing them... Full ear coverage and very comfortable...sounds great.... Best part is $24.45 on Amazon.  all you need is a standard y adapter for mic and ptt.... for that I used one made by W2ENY... also inexpensive.

http://www.amazon.com/Koss-sb45-SB-45-Communication-Stereophones/dp/B00081A2CW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&am...

.http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3rys4/adapter/

Michael - N5TGL

The right mic gain level is the one that gets you close to 0, but doesn't go over it.  Microphone outputs vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, and model to model.  Output also varies with the operator as some folks talk louder or softer than others.

So, if you have to use the +20db to get good output, then use it.  If you don't, then that's fine too.  Generally speaking, plugging a mic right into the radio will require the +20, using an output from a mixer or preamp won't.

I use an EV RE-320 with a preamp.  No +20 and I run mic gain at 60.  Of course I could run mic gain at 20 or 90 and be fine by adjusting the gain on the preamp.

The takeaway here is it's not the numbers that are important, it's that you get as close to 0 on voice peaks without going over.  If you go over 0, you WILL be transmitting a signal with audible clipping distortion. 

np2g

I do agree My choice is not that fixed 20 db boost but a variable solution derived from a adjustable pre amp . The solution is that perfect .768 MV. 0 db. All good audio mikes list how much output or freq response etc. so you can figure this out even before you attach the mike to the radio. And as stated it is the result you shoot for. And the flex like every thing out there has that sweet spot

Michael - N5TGL

Honestly, if your mic has enough output, there is no harm at all in using the built in +20 boost, as you still will have the mic gain slider for variable control.  The +20 boost is there to compensate between mic level and line level:

Mic level input = needs +20
Line level input = doesn't need +20

My problem is that my mic doesn't have quite enough output even with the +20, so I have to use an external preamp.  I'd rather not, as the preamp is a source of RF ingress, even with what seems like 5 lbs of ferrite on it.  

np2g

Another comment I agree with. If your audio input system provides that magic 0Db All is good. 

For me ,there are very good mike pre amps out there.. I am  presently
using a Scarlet external Preamp that makes my   present audio  capable of that  0 db  product. (Fully adjustable  ) 

(Mike level ,Line level ,Balanced level all require the magic DB value period .)


For my system :

 No RF getting into this device (Any Audio equipment ). I also use Electronic Digital processing .  This RF issue  has been midicated by proper instillation practices .

Any adjustment is not made to the radio (Radio Set to that engineered sweet spot)   It is Measured altered,  enhansed, Subdued ,External of the radio   .

I have not adjusted the radio to acomidate the mike I have adjusted the mike to acomidate the radio .

k0eoo

The mic settings for my PR781 are +20 ON and mic gain at around 60-65....  Don't remember what the dexpander is set at, but to set the dexpander just press MOX and watch your transmit backbround noise on the panadapter and start turning up the dexpander slider until you see a marked drop in the level (no talking)....  For my room the slider was around mid scale...  Also, if you have the TX EQ on its settings will effect the mic gain as well.

Howard -W6HDG

I'm very interested in this topic as I am still not happy with the transmit audio on my 6300.  Could the 6300 use different mic circuitry than the 6500/6700?  When I A/B my 6300 with my Yaesu FTdx3000, I get consistent reports that the Yaesu is far superior.  When I am trying to work a DX station with the 6300 and am about to lose my voice from calling, I switch to the Yaesu and BINGO - station usually worked.  

I'm using the same Heil Elite Pro 6 headset on both radios. Flex has +20 db on and mic level 60-70.  I'm using the MON circuit in the radio.  In order to really hear my own audio in the headphones, I have to have the headphone volume slider at 100% and the MON level at 70%.  I can then hear myself but not without a whirring noise in the background and a tiny bit of echo.  This occurs with 1 watt into a dummy load so it is not RF.  It even occurs at zero watts with no rig output!  It can be heard by a second receiver at 1 watt, so it is not artifact.  DEXpander can mute the whirring between phrases but is not a satisfactory solution.

Can others with a 6300 please try to monitor themselves into headphones and adjust headphone volume and MON level to listen to their own audio.  Is your background clean?  

Thanks.....

Lewis Cheek

I find the "MON" function to be of VERY little if any value. I have found that monitoring on another rig is much better in setting up the audio ( I do understand not all of us have another rig).

My concern when I started this thread was attempting to see if something might be wrong with my 6300, as both of the microphones in question worked well with the Flex 3000 without (IMO) a high microphone setting.

Since I don't plan on switching microphones once I get this setup with headset I have on order I'll just "nail" is down.

Thanks for the comments, it appears I'm not alone with my settings.

73's
Lew

Ken - NM9P

The key is in finding the proper adjustment of the TX EQ and compression.  If you are shooting for DX, use DX+ setting, cut some bass and boost some of the 1K, 2K & 4K a bit to bring out the articulation frequencies.  Zoom in on your panadapter and observe your audio spectrum as you talk and adjust your audio.  You will want to make sure you are neither excessively bassy, nor have too much treble.  

You can do a lot by looking at your spectrograph.  But it is even better to record your signals on a 2nd receiver, or have someone else record it and play it back. Make some changes and do it again.  Then compare the two or three options.    You can not get an accurate idea of how you sound by listening to your monitor with headphones.  You will hear more through **** conduction through your head than you do via the monitor and headphones.  

The Signature series is capable of extraordinary audio, but you must work at it a bit to get it perfect.  On the other hand... you are never going to replicate the over-processed, "11 meter band" quality that seems to be popular among some DXers and Contesters.  The Flex simply won't do that!  (Unless you seriously overdrive the mike stage)

BTW... I have found that if I have the TX bandwidth set to cut off some frequencies, but have them boosted on the EQ, that even though those frequencies wont be transmitted, their presence in the EQ seems to affect the processor.  (It may just be my imagination..)  I would recommend if you have the Bandwidth set to 200-2900 that you reduce the 63Hz, 125Hz, 4K and 8K sliders so that they won't interfere with the "circuits" down the line.  (Has anyone else noticed this on a 6000?  or am I dreaming?  I have certainly verified it on PowerSDR with my 1500)

John n0snx

No two radios are the same.... Just because you use the same mic on various radios doesn't mean you will get the same results.... It's a fact.  I have played many different radios and mic's.... What worked on one didn't on another...That certainly doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the radio or the mic. It just means a certain mic doesn't play well on a certain radio.

I agree that excellent audio can be achieved on the 6300.. I too was having all the issues that Howard had... It drove me nuts for awhile.... the reason for all the weird stuff was because everything was turned up so high that you heard everything... not good..Because I have played with my share of rack gear on previous radios ..WHICH I DON"T NEED on the 6300 EXCEPT for the external preamp.... I put my preamp in line made the adjustments and now the WHIRRING noise GONE.... the slight ECHO noise GONE... audio now is excellent so I am told by unsolicited reports.  I use both an RE-27 and a PR40 microphones and NO 20db boost needed ... mic setting is at 15... yes 15... I let the preamp do all the boosting...adjusted the radio EQ for my voice using another radio and the record and playback on the 6300 for refference...  It takes some time to get the EQ settings just right .... But you will know when you finally hit that SWEET spot.... I used the same settings for DX or ragchew except the bandwidth... I just narrow up the bandwidth for DX and widen it out for ragchewing.... and once the profile saving feature is available I will then just make several profile for all of the working conditions....  

The bottom line is.... with a little help the transmit audio that you want is most certainly attainable . Good luck with yours and remember...Patience Patience Patience...Just like the little choo choo.... I think I can I think I can.. Just be positive and great things will come out of your FLEX 6xxx..

A quick shout out to FRS.... GREAT JOB!!!

John n0snx

Howard -W6HDG

Thanks John, what preamp are you using?

KY6LA_Howard

Howard

I get superb audio reports both with my $24 Logitech Bluetooth headset that I connect via my iPad Remote and my $400 RadioSport Headset on the 6700, albeit they do need different EQ settings (Profiles will fix that)

I have no problem whatsoever in punching through any DX pileup and being the first one they call back. (Albeit a big antenna and big Amp help)  In fact, the reason I got rid of all my legacy radios was that the 6700 did so much of a better job than the legacy radios in SSB contesting as demonstrated by #1 place in SDG section using it. 

I am NOT experiencing any of your symptoms on my 6700... In fact, I had to turn my MON level down because it is too loud in my headphones.

So I guess there likely is either different circuitry in the 6300 or your settings need to be worked on...or maybe you need to try a different headset than the Heil

John n0snx

I sent you an email Howard with the info.... I am more than happy to share my setup with you... just email me or call..

Howard -W6HDG

Howard KY6LA,
John NA6L was at my place last week and I demonstrated the issue on my 6300. He normally doesn't use MON with his 6300 so I had him take my radio to his house to test using his mic and headphones.  He used my 6300.  He used his 6300.  He reported the exact same annoying whirring when using the MON circuit on both radios.   No difference.   You can turn MON down so that there is no whirring, but then you don't get much of your own audio in your ears. If the 6700 works better, then there may be something wrong with the 6300 compromise design.   I want my MON!  I want a good MON on SSB.  Like my wife says, I'm a person who just likes hearing himself speak.  I especially want a good MON in my ears on Digital Modes too!  

I'm not quite sure if my less than stellar audio reports are related to the poor MON audio I am hearing, but I wouldn't be surprised....

Howard W6HDG

KY6LA_Howard

Howard W6HDG

Definitely sounds like there is something different in the 6300 audio chain - MON function..

Different operating styles...

Except for SSB, I usually turn the sound completely off on my radio.  I never have the sound on for Digital modes and just use the panadaptor and especially the waterfall to SEE the bands. 

 Even when I am setting up the audio for SSB, I never use the MON function, but rather I listen to the audio output into a dummy load on another radio to "Set it and Forget it"

.. found that to be much more effective to getting the sound right than the MON function --- which i believe does not sample the final output...

DK1EY

Howard,

I just tried with the same Microphone (Heil Proset Elite HC6). On my Kenwood TS-590 it sounded perfect but on my new 6300, I was not able to deliver enough gain to the radio to be satisfied with the modulation. 

Please have a look at my results of testing with different profiles: https://community.flexradio.com/flexradio/topics/best_eq_for_heilsound_hc_6

For now, I ended to use the Rode NT-1A but I will do a few tests against the Rode Procaster.

BTW: I can confirm the MON issue, but for me it is no problem.

@John - N0SNX: Wold you give me some information about your setup too?

73
Thomas
DK1EY

Howard -W6HDG

Thomas, Thanks for confirming this issue. I hope that FLEX is listening. I'm very curious if this is Flex 6300 specific? I don't hear this from 6500/6700 owners. Can you try this? Raise headphone slider to max (lower slice volume if necessary to comfortable listening level) Shut off DEXpander Mic level at 70 (with +20db set) Raise MON level until you hear the Heil Proset Elite 6 in your headphones during transmit. Can you get a good monitor level without a baseline whirring sound and echo? I can't get enough MON level to even hear myself unless the headphone slider is at Max. Very annoying and like you say, 'not very satisfying audio'. I'm not going to buy another headset mic as the Heil is excellent. I get great reports on my Yaesu. I'm not going to buy a preamp. I'd consider just shutting off MON as a 'cure' if I was getting good audio reports with the 6300. But I'm not.

DK1EY

Howard,

I will try this at home as soon as possible and publish the effect here.

If you have any questions, just drop me an Email.

73
Thomas
DK1EY

Michael - N5TGL

Not exactly sure why you are so biased against adjusting the radio, but I'm happy your setup works for you!

np2g

Not biased. Since there is a vast quantity of possible combinations there has to be one constant in that multitude. Any alteration,enhancement ,suppression, eq ,compression is provided to that radio. At that magic 0 db. Or at the radio,s engineered ,defined input. Another reason to love electronic audio processing infinitely more compliant. Than anything internal. This discussion has hit on a few impacted criteria. You still cannot make something not capable to deliver what you think you require happen. It must be capable to start with.

Howard -W6HDG

Lew,
The MON function may be of little value in setting ones EQ, but it should at least function well enough to hear TX audio robustly (SSB and Digital) if the operator desires. I rate the MON function a 2 out of 10 on the 6300.  I hope this is one of the software defined functions that can be re-defined..... and quickly.  The TX audio also stinks with the Heil Elite 6 Pro Headset.   Those are the two reasons I am not using or enjoying my new 6300 much and that is a shame....  Howard W6HDG

np2g

Hello
Yes there is "Better mike  setups  " Out there.

 I use the record function on my Flex 6500.

Slide  the rf power to  " 0  "press the red recorder button  . Make a transmission Nothing goes out on the air. press the red button again (That stops it)  then play it back. (Press the play green arrow)

Yep!!!!! thats what you sound like  . 

The monitor is nice but the recording function ,For me, is better //easier . 

The 6300 has the potential of sounding fantastic. As all flexes you gotta make yourself happy. 

Howard -W6HDG

Thanks very much NP2G,
Great suggestion.  Sounds exactly the same in the recording function as in the MON "live". Whirring sound and some echo if mic gain is turned up to good level (70+ level and +20db set) with the Heil Elite Pro 6 headset.  If people are using a preamp and that solves the issue, perhaps Flex can work on the 6300 mic/MON circuits in software.  I'd hate to have to buy a $300 tube preamp as was suggested....

np2g

Glad  you tried it.

 Oh Well !!!

I am using for a mike  preamp a Focusrite  2I2   around   $ 140 bucks .
Also I Have a Yahama mike/headset for my KX3 plugged directly into the radio   that also works fantastic  for under $50 bucks .

If you are a SSB guy remember " You are how you sound ." 

John n0snx

I echo all of you comments.....

Ken - NM9P

I use a Behringer Xenyx 802USB  ($79 on Amazon Prime...see link below) on my 6500.  It is a bit overkill, and not tip-top quality, but the price was right and I needed something that could do double duty with my music sound system when needed.

I use a Heil PR22UT into the input and then split it three ways:  1) to the BAL/Line Level input on my FLEX-6500, 2) to the ACCY port on my FLEX-1500, 3) via USB to my computer to record and edit radio spots, as well as voice keyer stuff.  I have all the inputs flat on the Behringer and basically use it as a preamp and splitter for the other three pieces of equipment with line-level output.  All EQ is done internally with the rigs.  It is nice to share one mike with three pieces of equipment!  

If I wanted, I could hook up another mike and run comparisons between the two very easily.  So far, with 100 watts and my vertical antenna about 8 ft. outside the shack window and no station ground yet (It is coming with my tower project next month)  I have NO RF problems into the mixer and mike lines.  (The cheap audio amp and speakers is another story, so I just got a Bose Companion 2 Series III to install tonight).

It doesn't need to cost an arm and a leg to sound great.  We are only talking 3-6 KHz bandwidth at most, not 25,000 KHz top ends.  The laws of diminishing returns apply here, too.

 http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-Q802USB-8-Channel-Mixer/dp/B00CTKI61Y/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=140...

Howard -W6HDG

Ken,
Thanks.  That does look like overkill for me.  Any opinion of whether this might give me the gain I need? - http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-MIC800-Microphone-Modeling-Preamp/dp/B000KUENNU/ref=cm_rdp_product

I guess I'm surprised that a preamp is even necessary for the Flex 6300.  But I suppose the fact that I need to crank up the mic, headphone level and MON level to the point of whirring and echo tells me that I need a preamp for the Flex 6300 with the Heil Elite Pro 6 headset !?

John n0snx

Howard I looked at the link and think it will do just fine.... at a very inexpensive cost....

Barry N1EU

Another thumbs up for Focusrite 2i2  http://us.focusrite.com/usb-audio-interfaces/scarlett-2i2

I paid around $100 for it.  Besides outstanding audio quality in the preamp section, it will make your audio available digitally in the computer for direct digital connection.  I assume DAX supports this, like VAC works in PowerSDR.

That Behringer looks a bit gimmicky for my taste buds but maybe it sounds okay.