Tutorial Video: Using Full Duplex Mode to Monitor Transmit Audio During Adjustment

  • 15
  • Praise
  • Updated 8 months ago
This is my first Audio/Visual Tutorial on the Flex-6000 Series
I hope it is helpful.
If you like it, I will make more on other subjects.

https://youtu.be/CzT1qDKKySk

Ken - NM9P
Photo of Ken - NM9P

Ken - NM9P, Elmer

  • 3971 Posts
  • 1226 Reply Likes
  • Satisfied with my first attempt

Posted 3 years ago

  • 15
Photo of Alex - DH2ID

Alex - DH2ID, Elmer

  • 891 Posts
  • 166 Reply Likes
Great video tutorial, Ken, congrats! I've tried it and it works just fine.
I use a 50 Ohm dummy load on my XVTR output.
Until now I used my WinRadio G305 to monitor my signal. This also works, but
your solution is much better, of course.
Alex DH2ID
Photo of KY6LA - Howard

KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

  • 3541 Posts
  • 1396 Reply Likes
Great Video... DO MORE
Photo of Dan -- KC4GO

Dan -- KC4GO

  • 339 Posts
  • 68 Reply Likes
Well done Mr Ken!!!  Guess I don't need my TS-50 any more :) 
Thanks
Photo of Burt Fisher

Burt Fisher

  • 1049 Posts
  • 366 Reply Likes
How do get to transverter output?
Photo of Ken - NM9P

Ken - NM9P, Elmer

  • 3971 Posts
  • 1226 Reply Likes
On the top left of the slice flag, there are two selectors.  The first is BLUE and selects the input for the receiver.  The second is RED and selects the Transmit Output (ANT1, ANT2, XVTR) click on it and it will drop down a list to choose from.



I did it in the first part of the video, but if you watched on a small screen you might not have been able to see the mouse moving.  I need to find a setting that will circle the mouse when it is moving or something in order to make it easier.

Ken - NM9P
Photo of FrankP

FrankP

  • 25 Posts
  • 5 Reply Likes
Can connect the transverter output to say antenna one (slice 1) then receive on antenna 2 (slice 2)

I see another use for this feature for doing some antenna tests.
Photo of Ken - NM9P

Ken - NM9P, Elmer

  • 3971 Posts
  • 1226 Reply Likes
In my video on "a tour of my audio profiles," I think I was transmitting on Slice A on XVTR and listening on Slice B on either ANT1 of RXA (My 160 antenna) in order to let RX noise through and demonstrate the effects of various Mic Profiles under noisy or weak signal conditions.

I wouldn't recommend connecting the transverter output to an antenna input.  There is enough internal leakage within a 6300/6500/6700 to get a S9 to S9+20 dB signal on some bands with the XVTR transmitting into a small dummy load.

I have, however transmitted into my dipole on Slice A / ANT1 and listened on my vertical on Slice B / ANT 2 and was able to listen to my own signal as long as I kept the power down to one or two watts.  I could listen about 15-20 KHz away at a full 100 Watts if the antennas were separated well enough on my 6500.
Photo of FrankP

FrankP

  • 25 Posts
  • 5 Reply Likes
Thanks Ken. Sounds good.
Photo of Ed, K0KC

Ed, K0KC

  • 269 Posts
  • 19 Reply Likes
Ken,

Great tutorial, great radio voice, make more!!!

Ed, K0KC
Photo of Peter Bentley

Peter Bentley

  • 74 Posts
  • 25 Reply Likes

Very useful and helpful, thank you.

Best wishes from the Isle of Wight

G4BIM

Photo of Barry N1EU

Barry N1EU

  • 495 Posts
  • 121 Reply Likes
Great video and presentation Ken!!!  But the described delay/latency makes the technique somewhat less valuable and the full duplex feature less necessary.  In other words, if you need to record your voice, it's almost as easy to just use a second rig to do so.  I was hoping it would, but it didn't, make me want to run out and buy a 6700.
(Edited)
Photo of Ken - NM9P

Ken - NM9P, Elmer

  • 3971 Posts
  • 1226 Reply Likes
Actually, having done it for a while myself, first using my 1500 and now with the 6500, you can train yourself to ignore the delay.  It takes a little time, but I have done it enough that it doesn't bother me any more.  It is kind of like learning to play the drums with one foot kicking the bass drum, the other on the high hat cymbals,  and the hands swinging the sticks! 

Even so.  It is actually better to record and listen to yourself because when you listen with headphones as you speak you don't really hear your true sound.  Your ears will pick up your voice directly through bone conduction in your head, and that colors what you think you hear.  This is why many people don't like to hear themselves on recordings.  They are accustomed to hearing their voice through their head and not their ears.  When they hear a recording they say "That isn't me!"  or "Do I really sound like that?" 

Recording yourself in a second receiver, or in this case, through your full duplex option on the 6000, will give you the clearest picture of your audio.  Then again, once you have done that a lot, you can train your head to evaluate the difference and it becomes less necessary to record your voice.

As always...Your mileage may vary.

Ken - NM9P
Photo of Bill -VA3WTB

Bill -VA3WTB

  • 2767 Posts
  • 610 Reply Likes
What about the normal record and play back system?
Photo of Ken - NM9P

Ken - NM9P, Elmer

  • 3971 Posts
  • 1226 Reply Likes
It works well, too.  It is what I used before Full Duplex was released.  The disadvantage is that I can't listen while I talk.  Using FDX, I can also see what my signal sounds like when it is down in the noise, which often makes a great deal of difference.  A 40+ signal is almost always understandable, but an S6 in S6 noise is another thing.  Testing, or recording with Audacity and listening, under these circumstances can be very helpful in adjusting your rig for maximum intelligibility.   I will demonstrate this in another tutorial.  (I had one 3/4 recorded and then the phone rang and spoiled it!) 

Ken - NM9P
Photo of Mike KD2CJJ

Mike KD2CJJ

  • 122 Posts
  • 33 Reply Likes
Ken, excellent video!!!!!!  You have a knack for making videos if this is your first one.

Thanks!
Photo of Bob G   W1GLV

Bob G W1GLV

  • 654 Posts
  • 109 Reply Likes
Ken, very very nice. I've adjusted my audio and what a difference. We need more videos like this.
Thanks.
Photo of Cal Spreitzer - N3CAL

Cal Spreitzer - N3CAL

  • 36 Posts
  • 3 Reply Likes
Thanks Ken!  Great job!

Cal/N3CAL
Photo of WA2SQQ

WA2SQQ

  • 417 Posts
  • 87 Reply Likes
Will this also work in the AM mode?
Photo of Ken - NM9P

Ken - NM9P, Elmer

  • 3971 Posts
  • 1226 Reply Likes
Yes it does.  actually it will work on any mode I have tried it, except FDV & DSTAR.  I haven't tried it with other digital modes.  It works with CW, but you cant send while you listen to it, the delay messes with your timing.  You can send using CWX and listen to your tone.  The rig has a nice note.  Not "clicky" like some other rigs.

Ken - NM9P
(Edited)
Photo of Bill W2PKY

Bill W2PKY

  • 451 Posts
  • 79 Reply Likes
Notice the sharp skirts on the transmitted signal and almost complete lack of the opposite sideband. Nice video Ken.
Photo of Ken - NM9P

Ken - NM9P, Elmer

  • 3971 Posts
  • 1226 Reply Likes
Of course, this is transmitting through the Transverter port.  The 100 Watt amp WILL add a LITTLE IMD, but hopefully not much!
Photo of Rick Hadley - W0FG

Rick Hadley - W0FG

  • 579 Posts
  • 120 Reply Likes
Great video, Ken.  I've got to try that, even though I'm getting great reports with the settings I'm now using.
Photo of NM1W

NM1W

  • 133 Posts
  • 24 Reply Likes
Very useful! Thank you for posting this.
Photo of Roy Laufer

Roy Laufer

  • 439 Posts
  • 45 Reply Likes
Great video!

Keep them coming!

Thanks to the FM Simplex band plan on 6 Meters (50.02MHz, to name one) I can use the same technique to monitor my FM repeater transmission audio too!

I wish we had a lot more of these excellent Flex tutorials!

Vy 73,
Roy AC2GS
Photo of Ken - NM9P

Ken - NM9P, Elmer

  • 3971 Posts
  • 1226 Reply Likes
Yes.  When you are not on your own transmit frequency, you can use more power and separate antennas and listen full duplex, as long as you have enough isolation between the antennas.  You can even listen on 6 while transmitting on 20, as long as you have separate antennas.
Photo of DrTeeth

DrTeeth

  • 1687 Posts
  • 387 Reply Likes
Many thanks Ken, nice one.
Photo of WA6FXT Mike

WA6FXT Mike

  • 207 Posts
  • 37 Reply Likes
Very nice, Ken. I look forward to more, from you.

Mike
Photo of Chris Tate  - N6WM

Chris Tate - N6WM, Elmer

  • 808 Posts
  • 217 Reply Likes

Very nice job Ken..  you should do this for a living :-)


Thanks for sharing

Photo of Jay / NO5J

Jay / NO5J

  • 1514 Posts
  • 222 Reply Likes
Ken 
Right I understand completely!
I'm pretty sure your secrets still safe, just don't tell anyone I said that because I will of course deny all knowledge of any secrets as per the NDA agreement. Which also doesn't exist. Mums the word. Say no more! Know what I mean. nudge nudge, Say No More!!! 

73, Jay - NO5J 
Photo of DrTeeth

DrTeeth

  • 1687 Posts
  • 387 Reply Likes
Jay, Pure commercial suicide for a company to let details of a subsequent product/product line out of the bag. What tends to happen is that the revenue stream dries up as everybody waits for its release.
Photo of Ken - NM9P

Ken - NM9P, Elmer

  • 3971 Posts
  • 1226 Reply Likes
Jay an I were just playing, Guy. Actually I am not on the "inside." Nor am I an Alpha tester. (I wish I were!)
Photo of Jay / NO5J

Jay / NO5J

  • 1514 Posts
  • 222 Reply Likes
Guy 

As per the NDA agreement, Both Ken and I are not Alpha testers. At least we don't think we are yet. Even if we were, we wouldn't be sharing that information publically.

Unless we were only joking, when we signed the NDA. All I can really truthfully say is, so far I haven't signed an NDA agreement, therefore "I Know Noting!", so far at least.

Which, as per the NDA, is how it's supposed to be. If I ever do sign an NDA, I'll have to stop joking about NDAs and secrets. I was just trying to joke about them while I still can.

73, Jay - NO5J     
Photo of DrTeeth

DrTeeth

  • 1687 Posts
  • 387 Reply Likes
Now where did I leave that "tongue in cheek" smiley?
Photo of Stefano - W2WTZ

Stefano - W2WTZ

  • 82 Posts
  • 20 Reply Likes
Well done Ken!!!
Photo of Steve Belcak

Steve Belcak

  • 79 Posts
  • 7 Reply Likes
Nice job Ken..Thanks
Photo of Mark - WS7M

Mark - WS7M

  • 994 Posts
  • 354 Reply Likes
Ken, Love your tutorials!  Keep'em coming!

Can I ask what software you are using to do the screen caps?  I have Snagit that records pix and video but I've been unable to get it to record the audio from the flex radio.

I'm hoping to use something to record both the screen and the audio so I can get some help/suggestions on tracking down some noise I see.
Photo of WA2SQQ

WA2SQQ

  • 417 Posts
  • 87 Reply Likes
Me too
Photo of Ken - NM9P

Ken - NM9P, Elmer

  • 3971 Posts
  • 1226 Reply Likes
I am using Online Broadcast Software from OBSProject.com. It is free, and allows a Mike/aux source and a desktop audio source.

I am getting my main Mike input from my USB mixer. For the desktop audio (rig audio) I am doing something a bit unorthodox...I am tapping into the DAX RX 1 RESERVED line. They say not to mess with the RESERVED line, but it works to tap it for the recording.

You could alternatively use the REMOTE function and capture the rig audio from the default speaker line.

Give it a try.

Ken - NM9P
Photo of Rich McCabe

Rich McCabe

  • 988 Posts
  • 213 Reply Likes
Great video Ken. Finally got around to watching it. Unfortunately, I am one that cant get past the idiot sound with the delay. Tried for hours and it still trips me up so I have to record it or listen on another rig.
Photo of DrTeeth

DrTeeth

  • 1687 Posts
  • 387 Reply Likes
Ken, as you have asked for 'requests', I'd like to vote for an RTTY video using FLDigi and the new SSDR RTTY mode.

Reading guides is like teaching somebody to drive by giving them a manual instead of actually showing them.
Photo of Ken - NM9P

Ken - NM9P, Elmer

  • 3971 Posts
  • 1226 Reply Likes
I will see if I can tackle that one sometime this week. No promises though. It is fall break week and the XYL and Harmonic may have lots of plans for my week off!

I have plans on the following subjects so far:

RTTY with MMTTY
RTTY with FLDigi
Other digital modes with DAX,
Running splits for DXing
Setting up the flex with N1MM+ with the voice keyer.
Setting up with N1MM+ and CWX macros.
Tricks and tips for the 6000 series.

But don't expect them all this week.

Ken - NM9P
(Edited)
Photo of DrTeeth

DrTeeth

  • 1687 Posts
  • 387 Reply Likes
That looks like there will be something for everybody in that mix. I look forward to adding them to my local collection here.

Enjoy the break...if your family lets you, LOLZ.
Photo of Peter K1PGV

Peter K1PGV, Elmer

  • 541 Posts
  • 315 Reply Likes
Nice job Ken!  I *really* liked that tutorial.  Thanks for taking the time to put it together.

It would be fun to hear the difference while watching you adjust some of the EQ sliders.  That's the sort of thing that I find really hard to evaluate when I'm doing it "real time"... I'm a "record and play back" guy (that delay... can't get over it).

Anyhow, nice work.  More tutorials like this one would be great!

Peter
K1PGV
Photo of Ken - NM9P

Ken - NM9P, Elmer

  • 3971 Posts
  • 1226 Reply Likes
I left that one off the list. But I plan to do one like that, too. It helps to see and hear the effect of adjusting each different EQ slider. I may combine this with with one on adjusting for the standard Mike. Or I may make it a separate tutorial on adjusting for a new Mike...
(Edited)
Photo of Dave - W6OVP

Dave - W6OVP

  • 218 Posts
  • 69 Reply Likes
I have plans on the following subjects so far:

RTTY with MMTTY
RTTY with FLDigi
Other digital modes with DAX,
Running splits for DXing
Setting up the flex with N1MM+ with the voice keyer.
Setting up with N1MM+ and CWX macros.
Tricks and tips for the 6000 series.

That all sounds good, Ken. But remember, writers (video or otherwise) are like preachers:

Writers want to scribble to the top of the pyramid of users, not to it's base where the numbers are largest and the need the greatest.

Preachers want to give sermons on Modern Eschatological Theories instead of "Jesus Loves Me, this I know..."

Please make your next video tutorial "Setting up your 6000 audio using what comes out of the box" and call it Number 1. That is by far the largest "market" for such help.

TNX  Dave  W6OVP