Rural Mode Needed for V2.0 SSSR for slow Internet users < 500Kbytes/sec for Remote Control

  • 4
  • Idea
  • Updated 1 year ago
  • (Edited)
There are some of us Flex 6xxx users that live in Rural Area's with not enough 
Internet Speeds < 500KBytes/sec 

Some would like to Remote Control their Flex Radio's 6xxx series without the need for 
Spectrum Scope & Waterfall.

Yes, I turned the fps to 1 and Display off, but that is not enough when trying VPN to a 
Flex 6xxx radio that on a Rural Slow DSL Internet 

Be nice if Flex had a switch in SSDR for those with Slug Slow Internet

Just wanted Frequency Control and Tx & Rx Control and some basics 

My friend K3 & K3 Mini works on Rural Internet Speeds of < 500Kbytes/sec 

Another ham friend has his Kenwood TS-480SX with Remote Rig off Rural
Internet Speeds of < 500Kbytes/sec

Yes, SSDR looks great at 100Mbytes/second but I like to see a scaled down 
version for those with Slug Slow Internet Speeds that want to remote their Flex
Radio's

A switch in V.2.0 would be great for those with Slow Rural Internets and no need to see 
Spectrum Scope & waterfalls, etc that eat up Bandwidth and Data Speeds

Any comments welcome ! 

73 Mike
Photo of mikeatthebeach .

mikeatthebeach .

  • 148 Posts
  • 26 Reply Likes

Posted 1 year ago

  • 4
Photo of Ria - N2RJ

Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

  • 2133 Posts
  • 820 Reply Likes
Sounds like a good idea. Maybe a "minimal" mode. I don't know if anything can be done about latency, eg if you are using satellite Internet. 

I would imagine that some kind of optional compression can be added to further reduce audio bandwidth requirements and it can be turned off/on as needed. 
Photo of Mike va3mw

Mike va3mw

  • 824 Posts
  • 195 Reply Likes
Hi Ian

See if you can replace the firmware with OpenWRT on that model.  If you can, then we can do some tuning.  You may have to do some Googling.

If not, see if you have the ability to turn on QOS.  You'll have to do some playing.  Gamer sites have a lot of great information on router tuning.  

Mike
Photo of Ian GM4KLN

Ian GM4KLN

  • 27 Posts
  • 3 Reply Likes
thanks Mike - will do some digging. can only improve things!
73, Ian
Photo of Mike va3mw

Mike va3mw

  • 824 Posts
  • 195 Reply Likes
Photo of Ria - N2RJ

Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

  • 2133 Posts
  • 820 Reply Likes
I use PfSense and CoDel which is built in. Works pretty well. I have a 100/10 line from the cable company and the node is about 1 mile away. 
Photo of Mike va3mw

Mike va3mw

  • 824 Posts
  • 195 Reply Likes
I think I am going to try PFSense tonight and see how it goes.  
Photo of Mike va3mw

Mike va3mw

  • 824 Posts
  • 195 Reply Likes
Mike

I have done a lot of work on remote use of Flex radios.  I also do own a TS480 with remoterig at the same site.  Remote Rig is better, but not perfect.  (BTW, I have been doing this for over 10 years) .

Can you run this test http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest at DSLreports and let me know what your bufferfloat setting is?  Also, make sure your MTU value on your router is set to the correct value.  This is super critical.  http://www.tp-link.com/us/FAQ-190.html.  Most routers can handle this.

I had problems with my Bufferbloat rating was D or worse.  I was dropping about 0.5% packets.  Now, I routinely get a B value and I have 0.01% dropped packets to my Maestro while remote.  In the last 24 hours, I dropped only 100 packets.  That is an amazingly low number.

Welcome to the world of networking.  Any one can plug and play and connect to the internet.  To get your full value, each installation needs to be customized.

If you don't have time to tune, you could try an IQRouter.   http://evenroute.com/.  I would install one, but they do not ship to Canada.  This will really help your situation.  Spend some time on their website and I think you will find they present some very good data that will help you out.  

I 100% agree with their comments on WIFI range extenders and why they fail so much.  Short story, make sure you are not using any Wifi range extenders (I know, that is not critical to this discussion, but it is important).


73 es HNY,

Mike va3mw


(Edited)
Photo of mikeatthebeach .

mikeatthebeach .

  • 147 Posts
  • 26 Reply Likes
This is my Slug Slow Internet 

73 Mike
(Edited)
Photo of Mike va3mw

Mike va3mw

  • 824 Posts
  • 195 Reply Likes
Wow, not good.    What are you paying for?  Do you know?  You should see at least close to what your ISP is charging you for.

Check out those messages at the bottom about alien scripts.  That is critical as well.

Mike
Photo of Ria - N2RJ

Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

  • 2131 Posts
  • 816 Reply Likes
I think that is fairy typical of low bandwidth rural DSL in the states these days. A lot of the telcos are letting them rot. In my area we can only get a max of 5MBps and it degrades with distance. Copper lines are no longer well-maintained. 
Photo of HCampbell  WB4IVF

HCampbell WB4IVF

  • 128 Posts
  • 32 Reply Likes

You can count me among the geographically challenged.  Mike’s stats are actually better what I had with my Verizon mobile broadband connectivity, until I put up an outside antenna.  With the antenna I get 4 - 5 Mbps on the average, much better but still vastly slower than my daughter and son-in-law’s FIOS.   Not to mention that my connectivity is “metered” ($ for overages), which adds injury to insult (I now take our Win 10 laptops along when we visit them after update Tuesday to lessen the pain........).    

Howard

Photo of Mike - VE3CKO

Mike - VE3CKO

  • 314 Posts
  • 119 Reply Likes
Hams and our antenna farms as big or as small as they are, are certainly not always in a cable/fiber/dsl friendly area. I'm in the business of providing people in rural areas better internet. There are those stuck in technology dead zones or who won't change from out-dated technology, streaming youtube difficult, impossible to NetFlix most of the time, no way SmartSDR will run reliably on those kinds of connections without reducing components deemed unnecessary for essential communication to the FlexRadio server. I would not be surprised FRS has considered this and may already have a plan on how and when to introduce this after WAN capability is released. A network dumb mode checklist of items to disable/enable, makes perfect sense.
Photo of Mike va3mw

Mike va3mw

  • 824 Posts
  • 195 Reply Likes
One thing that I failed to mention and that is to ensure you are not using DAX or CAT while remote if you can.  They do add overhead.

Mike
Photo of Ken - NM9P

Ken - NM9P, Elmer

  • 3823 Posts
  • 1164 Reply Likes
Things that I have found that reduce data load....
1) turn off DAX feeds from the remote rig.
2) turn display FPS down to between 1-6.
3) turn waterfall rate down low, or off. If you wish, also drag the waterfall/panadapter screen divider all the way to the bottom.
4) drag your SSDR window to make it more narrow. Height doesn't matter as much, but width uses more bandwidth.

It is amazing how much bandwidth things like DAX Mic Stream, DAX IQ, and other DAC streams add to the bandwidth. Also the waterfall seems to consume a lot if the rate is high

I have been able to operate remotely occasionally with just under 500 Kb/s. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. My UVerse dsl is often quite variable.

Ken - NM9P
Photo of L.Kubis

L.Kubis

  • 80 Posts
  • 20 Reply Likes
For those that may not be aware Expert Electronics,  SunSDR just announced their WAN capable Remote Control system for RX only at the present time, with TX to follow.

 http://sunsdr.eu/expertsdr2-update-1-1-3/

In their manual they allow the user to choose the B/W for RX between 70Kbs to 1Mbs depending on the quality of their connection.

I have seen my friend's ColibrDDR-SDR RX run with the 70Kbs B/W option with full spectral display,control and audio over the WAN and I must say it was very good. Mind you it was over a good internet path so it would be degraded on a true skinny one.

The point is that it is possible to run SDR's over skinny circuits, just requires some compression and ingenuity.

HNY
Lloyd
VE3ERQ

BTW -- I own and  run a 6500 remote and have owned most of the Flexes so far.
Photo of Mike va3mw

Mike va3mw

  • 824 Posts
  • 195 Reply Likes
Hi Lloyd

I would like to see their actual raw data flow results as it will take more than compression to provide a seamless operation.  

Flex kindly provides raw data results on lost packets which is very helpful for testing and tuning.  Others do not and just hide it.  It would be helpful to see their latency numbers as well.  

Compression is not the simple answer here if people think that is all it will take.  Lots of homework to do.  :)

73
Photo of Norm - W7CK

Norm - W7CK

  • 745 Posts
  • 151 Reply Likes
I've been using RCForb.   You can find it at remotehams dot com.   The MS Windows based Server and Client programs are both free.  There is also an Android app that works very well and the cost is quite minimal.

The application lets you control several different radio brands and models - Flex models included.  I like using it especially with my IC-7100 as it gives me full control of the rig 160m through 70cm.  It will even let me turn the rig on and off.  I happen to also have an Elecraft KPA amp and KAT tuner that the application also gives me full control over.   This is the best remote control software I have come across and I highly recommend it.

The security is also pretty good.  You can selectively give others access privileges to selected portions or functions of your station.  Pretty cool.....   Works well with the Flex.  Doesn't require much bandwidth.  I've used it from all over.  From Israel, Hawaii, Alaska and other places.  Never a hickup or any issues whats so ever......

I have an IC-7100 up most of the time for VHF/UHF access.  If you are interested in testing it, install the client on a laptop, configure your mic and speakers (I like wireless bluetooth headsets).   Once you have the Client up and running, configure your login (your call sign) and a password.  Next go in and upload a copy of your license (used to verify that you are actually licensed).  Next look for W7CK (me).  Go ahead and try to connect but make sure you read the first screen you get. It will give you the opportunity to "join the club"?   If you press the button, I will get a notice from you.  I'll look to see if you uploaded a copy of your license.  If you have, I will then give you privileges to use the rig on VHF and UHF.  I live just on the outskirts of Phoenix and there are a lot of folks that hang out on the local repeaters but also a bunch on 146.52 simples.  Get on and play with it and see how it does from your rural location.

Norm - W7CK
Photo of Ria - N2RJ

Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

  • 2131 Posts
  • 816 Reply Likes
ORB is a good one. A friend with his K3S uses it although he gets frustrated as it is not seamless. But it works most of the time. 

As far as paid solutions go, I believe CommCat is another although I've never personally used it. 
Photo of Norm - W7CK

Norm - W7CK

  • 745 Posts
  • 151 Reply Likes
Oh, I forgot to mention.  RCForb also does HRD emulation.  I can use PSK-31 or any other digital mode available through DM780 from my laptop while traveling.  I also use the HRD Logbook while remote. All without having to be running HRD on my laptop because RCForb does the emulation for you.  Works flawlessly - tracking the frequency and mode of the rig as well.   I've even attached my laptop through my cellphone (tethered) and have used this app without any issues.  It also lets you control several different rotors for beam antennas.  I don't have one of those, but the software is there.   There is also a nice forum where you can get just about any question you have answered.

Let me know if you decide to give it a try.

Norm - W7CK
Photo of Larry: KE2YC

Larry: KE2YC

  • 63 Posts
  • 5 Reply Likes
Hi all,

I must tell you that some of us have only hot spot to work with.  I am in a no Zone for internet, No cable or dsl.  If i did have dsl it would be a waist because of the land lines in the woods here are useless.  I get internet with hot spot and can only at best in the winter get G2 and some times G3.  I have never checked my speed so can't give you data on that.  I would like to remote but think it would be very difficult or very expensive.  There is just nothing out here but cell tower and that is tough to work with.  On top of that they limit me to my data for the month which I pay top dollar for at $50.00 for 5g.  I have tried a few things but summer comes and the leaves fill in and than i'm luck to get g2.  Would be nice to work remote on low data.

Larry ke2yc
Photo of HCampbell  WB4IVF

HCampbell WB4IVF

  • 128 Posts
  • 32 Reply Likes

Larry –

I use a hotspot too (a Verizon MIFI 6620L).   While my area is supposed to be have Verizon Wireless 4G coverage, until I got an outside antenna I was limited to 3G, and poor 3G at that.  After connecting an outside antenna I now get reliable 4G.  Maybe that’s an option for you?

I have a 5 gig data plan too, so I feel your pain!

Howard

(Edited)
Photo of Larry: KE2YC

Larry: KE2YC

  • 63 Posts
  • 5 Reply Likes
Hi Kevin,

I agree with you and i would most likely upgrade if i could get better signal but cant see spending all that on only a 2g sig.  Thanks for the comment.

Larry ke2yc
Photo of Larry: KE2YC

Larry: KE2YC

  • 63 Posts
  • 5 Reply Likes
Hi Howard,

Thanks for the suggestion and was wondering what outside antenna you used and other equipment you used or was needed?  Comments welcome.

Larry ke2yc
Photo of HCampbell  WB4IVF

HCampbell WB4IVF

  • 128 Posts
  • 32 Reply Likes

Larry –

Here are the directional dual band antenna, cable, and cable to pigtail adapter I use:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002DV4JTM/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0018PVVBS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0006ZIESE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Finally a MIFI 6620L pigtail like this one (I don’t recall the exact one I bought):

https://www.amazon.com/Novatel-Wireless-Verizon-External-Connector/dp/B00P7Z2NNU/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8...

If you do a search on 6620L on Amazon you’ll find many other alternatives, including a complete external antenna kit.  The dual band (3G/4G) antenna is on a mast attached to the side of the house with brackets.   I oriented the antenna using the MIFI 6620L web management site to determine direction of cell tower with strongest signal. 

One caution for anyone using an external antenna with a 6620L(or maybe other) hotspot:  The 6620L antenna port is very fragile.  Within a couple months of connecting my antenna the port became intermittent.  After replacing the MIFI, I mounted the MIFI in a small plastic box box with double sided tape, and drilled holes in the box for the antenna cable and charging cable, secured the cables with grommets to prevent movement, and have not had any problems since (except the data use overage charges of course, grrrrr...). 

Howard

(Edited)
Photo of Larry: KE2YC

Larry: KE2YC

  • 63 Posts
  • 5 Reply Likes
Howard,

Thank you for the info.  It is great and will do some research and cost.  I have a 40 ft tower I can put antenna on and I think that will do the trick.  Tnx again.  Will let you know how it works out.

Larry ke2yc
Photo of HCampbell  WB4IVF

HCampbell WB4IVF

  • 128 Posts
  • 32 Reply Likes
Glad to help, Larry.  Let me know how it turns out and if you have more questions about my antenna setup.  My email addr is on QRZ.

Howard
Photo of KY6LA - Howard

KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

  • 3403 Posts
  • 1292 Reply Likes

We travel a great deal internationally.  So when I do not have a land based WIFI Connection, I use an unlocked Huawei 4G Hotspot Model E5377TS-32

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00URJZINS/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&th=1

$129 on Amazon

and local SIM Cards from whatever country I am currently in. 

You can easily find local SIMS everywhere.

I find that using SmartSDR for iOS that I consume about 1GB an hour... yes I can likely consume less by cutting down display rates etc, but I like to go full bore when I have a good 4G signal...However many times and countries it drops down to 3G so you have to eliminate most of the visual displays.

Cost: If you are using a Local Country SIM... about €8 (USD$8.50) per GB

DO NOT USE ANY AMERICAN CARRIERS INTERNATIONAL ROAMING PLAN.

A typical AT&T International Roaming "DEAL" will rob you for about $150 per GB

So you can easily pay for the hotspot and a couple of GB of Data if bring your own.


Needless to say it would save a lot of money if there was less data consumption

Photo of Ria - N2RJ

Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

  • 2131 Posts
  • 816 Reply Likes
On my last international trip to Seoul I used a local sim from kt/olleh which came with free wifi on the metro and in a lot of other places. In fact I hardly used my data allowance at all. They have wifi literally everywhere in Seoul and points beyond.
Photo of KY6LA - Howard

KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

  • 3403 Posts
  • 1292 Reply Likes
So true. The USA is so backward and so much more expensive to get data than many countries.
Photo of Ria - N2RJ

Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

  • 2131 Posts
  • 816 Reply Likes
I found cellular pricing about the same. However it came with fast wifi which helped me save data on the plan. 
Photo of Mike va3mw

Mike va3mw

  • 824 Posts
  • 195 Reply Likes
Wow, this discussion really digressed from the original question. :)
Photo of Walt - KZ1F

Walt - KZ1F

  • 3040 Posts
  • 640 Reply Likes
Wow, pages and I didn't see one maybe you're not a good candidate for a 6000. No, not saying it's the radios fault, it's an internet intensive radio. If it's more important than you locality, move or forgo wan.
Photo of AA0KM

AA0KM

  • 266 Posts
  • 47 Reply Likes

I can`t to get it to go any lower. This is Local Lan though.



Photo of Rory - N6OIL

Rory - N6OIL

  • 251 Posts
  • 46 Reply Likes
Sure wish I had this at home! maybe I'll setup my station here at work.
Photo of Mike va3mw

Mike va3mw

  • 824 Posts
  • 195 Reply Likes
All

To show just how critical your router is on this, on my Bell Canada supplied Sagecom router, I get

18 down and 7 up.  However the Buffer Bloat is an A.  That isn't too bad.

I changed out that Router for my Astaro/Sophos router and my BB goes to A+

Impressive.  I'm very pleased with this.

Mike va3mw

Photo of Ria - N2RJ

Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

  • 2131 Posts
  • 816 Reply Likes
Often cheap consumer routers have not so powerful SoCs with very little RAM so they are struggling just to keep up. When Verizon started deploying FiOS (fiber to the home service) people would lock up their routers if they ran bittorrent. They installed a lousy actiontec router which they actually tied into the whole VOD system in a convoluted mess. It worked fine for basic web browsing but do anything that requires a lot of states and the router would lock up. I would imagine the bufferbloat issues are similar since the small routers don't have the horsepower to adequately perform traffic management.