I find it amazing how many features the Elad FDM-SW2 software has already and is just a few years old, although the hardware is not as good as a flex the software shows just how far SmartSDR has to go as far as customization and User interface features.
Again this is NOT to say a FDM-Duo is a better radio it is to show that SmartSDR has a long way to go in terms of features and user customization.
In May 2017 SmartSDR and the 6000 series will be over 5 years old and is still only at Ver 1.10 and will jump to Ver 2 but will it be even close in terms this level of features & customization?
Yes I know WAN is coming in Ver 2 and that's great but will that be it, I guess will just have to see...
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Posted 2 years ago
Ria - N2RJ, Elmer
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Cluster in the panadapter
dBm displayed along with S units
All rx audio in one panel instead of clicking on slice flags
Audio spectrum is nice eye candy and may be somewhat usefulFront panel display and buttons seem useful at a glance
Anything else you see that you like?
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Ria - N2RJ, Elmer
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There are some situations where VPN won't work, such as ISPs with carrier grade NAT. Hopefully the WAN feature will.
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I worked in the computer and software development field most of my life and I understand how difficult and time consuming it can be at times. With that said, the development of SmartSDR seems to be much slower than what I expected.
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Hi Ria, I like all of the things you mentioned.
This
is a few of the things I like...
1. User definable Band preset BUTTONS.
2. User definable Color coded slice receivers.
3. User definable Movable and dock-able windows.
4. User definable AGC(T) parameters.
5. User definable Receive filter presets.
6. Shows frequency at courser position.
7. Data values shown next to all sliders and buttons all of the time, Not just when you hover the mouse courser.
8. Extensive recording & playback features such as Audio with ability to save files, I&Q audio and much more.
9.info display showing Spectrum & waterfall displays. (Span width, FFT Resolution, Scale, Averaging level.
10. Many values shown in dBm scale.
11. Full use of right mouse button. (Right Click Windows)
12. Handy built-in log book.
13. Ability to lock slice’s to center of screen so you can scroll pan adapter.
14. Squelch for each receiver slice for all modes.
15. Ability to tune with Keyboard.
16. Lots of use of Shift, Ctrl, & Alt buttons. (Eg. Shift+Drag)
17. Measurement markers, Delta Markers.
18. Audio spectrum & FFT windows.
19. FREE Wireless Android app.
20. Ability to customize UI colors.
I could go on and on but you can clearly see from this one video how far behind SmartSDR is it terms features. And in this video David only shows a fraction of what the software is capable.
Now one last thing I know there will be some that say that the screen is to busy and for some that may be true BUT SmartSDR could have a menu option for “Standard Display” for a simplified UI like it is now Or an “Advanced Display” for those more advanced users that like to see more status info at a glance. This way all users would be happy.
Again this is NOT to say that the FDM-Duo is a better radio it’s to show how far SmartSDR needs to go in terms of features.
I hope Version 2.0 is not just about WAN I hope we see a lot more features such as these Especially for the $200 they expect us to fork over for V.2.
Again keep in mind the 6000 series is over 5 years old and the software is only at 1.10 and to jump to 2.0 soon as a $200 paid version? At the current software development pace by the time we see features like this the radio will be Old and obsolete.
Either FRS makes software development a real priority and hires a bunch more software developers or the competition will blow them by quickly. You can only be a leader if you stay ahead of the competition. The 6000 series is awesome and has great potential but it’s the Software that’s holding it back.
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Ken - NM9P, Elmer
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My "speculations" are based upon technical reviews and reports from several people I have talked with who have tested the 7300 in their own stations, some of them are competitive contesters. Another is a friend in a neighboring town who has a 7300 as his main rig because that is all he could afford to replace a Yaesu 1200DX that took a lightning-induced permanent vacation. He loves the rig but reports that a strong local ham running an amp will occasionally cause overloading problems.
I had the same problem with two local high power ops less than a mile away who wiped out my old TS-850 when I was in the same sub band.
With my 6500, I can get within less than 10 KHz with no problem at all. And what problem there is closer in are due to phase noise on THEIR transmitters. (One of which BTW is my old 850!)
I am NOT dissing the 7300.
It is a great value as a ham rig. I would even say the best in its price class. If I had to choose a new rig for under $1400 I would probably get one. (Or look for a great deal on a 6300!)
It's main limitation is the 14 bit A/D in the front end as compared to the 16 bit A/D used by Flex, and soon some other manufacturers even Icon.
It is certainly in the "Good enough" category for most hams. But the physics of it will limit it in som extreme situations.
But this thread isn't about Flex vs Icom hardware. It is about whether or not Flex is falling behind in the software and feature wars.
I see this as having multiple categories.
1) "Performance" features - I.e. How well does the rig receive, transmit, filter, equalize, and do typical DSP noise reduction, notching, blanking, etc.? How well does it interface with logging/contesting programs and third party digital communications programs? How well does it display crucial operating information to the user? How good is the transmit and receive audio? How good is the CW note and QSK turnaround? Is the receiver limited by strong signals or impaired by its own phase noise? Is the transmitter clean or does it cause problems to close by stations because of transmitted distortion or phase noise? Is the rig's antenna switching compatible with the user's requirements for DXing, contesting, using transverters, or multiple antennas?
2) "Ease of use" features: these are things such as the quality of the GUI. How easy and intuitive is it to adjust various controls? How easy it it to display additional information that concerns ME that others may not need on the main panel? How cluttered is the user interface? Is the GUI readable? Can it be customized? How flexible is it? Can multiple users easily set the rig up to their own preferences and needs? How easy is it to use the rig without additional interface devices? What additional interface devices are available either from the company or from third parties? How do they improve operations? How easy is the rig to setup audio profiles, user preferences, transverters, antenna and amplifiers, etc.? Definable band, filter, and other function buttons?
3). "Eye Candy." - This is highly subjective, because everyone will have a different opinion about this.
This includes custom display color choices, metering options, logging, DX spots on the display, other display modifications.
As I said. This is a matter of opinion. Some would lobby to move certain display features fro the "Eye Candy" category to the "Ease of use" category.
My experience is that FRS has focused first upon the first category, and tackled a lot in category Two. They have a few things to polish in the DSP area, then they can add some more Ease of Use features. We may or may not ever agree on the Eye Candy. Or even whether something is eye candy or a necessary Ease of Use feature.
I doubt that SSDR will ever be as customizable as PSDR because greater flexibility leads to more load on customer service.
All in all, I think they have done a great job. They are offering several features that no one else is offering. V.2.0 promises to add some more. And v.2.x will continue to grow, as has V.1.x.x.
Ken - NM9P, Elmer
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Now if one man can do all of this how can't a fairly modest sized company like FRS not do a little better with SmartSDR has far a features? Oh and BTW at this point he's only asking for Donations.
http://ke9ns.com/flexpage.html
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I too have debated selling my 6500 and going to the 5000A but since I’m am late to the Flex party I figure I would wait a but longer and see If FRS gets going on SmartSDR development and if in due time there is no real progress “I’m Out”. Maybe I’ll try an ANAN or other radio or just wait and see what the competition does.
I feel bad for the folks who got their 6000 series radio when they first came out 5 years ago and are still waiting for real progress with SmartSDR, especially if they previously owned a 5000 and had all of those features taken away. I have only been waiting a few years so I will wait a bit more and see what happens.I think Darrin KE9NS might just might be a software genius considering how much he has done in such a short time.
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uses an external Sound card and my K3 or is only good with a Flex5000 ?
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Not to say that is the only reason software development is slow at FRS for the 6000 series. Another reason is that their ham radio business is a small part of their business - not the main part. My understanding is that their commercial business is their bread and butter. At least that is what I have heard. There are most likely other reasons why their software development is slower and I suspect that software labor costs plays a part in that.
In any event I can see why many folks are upset but personally I would not trade my 6300 for any other rig except another Flex perhaps. If I had the money though I would like to try a few others as a second rig :-)
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Rick, W2JAZ
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Rick, W2JAZ
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You may argue if it is (or was) a good idea but people in Flex were aware of this issue and Steve (N5AC) said it clearly in one of its presentations: they had to rewrite all the code, and they did it.
Having said this, my idea about software in Flex 6000, is that ethernet APIs are the great added value for device integration purposes. You can actually do everything from everywhere.
Unfortunately I can't say the same for GUI software. Keeping it closed, force each developer to start from scratch each time he wants to add a feature to SSDR. Actually he can't add any feature to it because he can only develop another external application that runs next to SSDR and honestly, applications that run (have to run) next SSDR are really too much.
I hope they will consider the idea to transform their GUI in a pluggable framework where official sw components can run next to other (community) sw components. Things would be much more interesting in this way, at least for me.
73' Enzo
iw7dmh
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Hey Mike, Thank you for concern in regard to my text, But I think you mean TYPING IN ALL CAPS IS CONSIDERED YELLING AT PEOPLE.
J U S T S A Y I N ‘
:)Ken - NM9P, Elmer
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Good discussion. We will have to wait until Dayton Hamvention for part of the answer. But there will be many more releases after that.
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In the flex 6000 series the "work" is done in the radio. I believe (I cannot say for sure) that Apache radio is different in that it is going to deliver some data to the computer which must be crunched by the computer. I can't speak for the radio in this thread.
Owners of flex 6000 series radios already today are able to work their radios remotely. I think that will be much harder for radios where the computer has to do some of the work.
The flex 6000 series delivers all data via Ethernet. I remember when USB became all the rage. Everyone was all excited about the speed and flexibility of Plug-n-play.
During the time USB was coming alive I was a systems integrator using PCs and custom software to implement very large scale factory automation. USB was a nightmare. Not only did the plug-n-play in the early days not always work right, but it decided almost on a day-to-day basis to change. So yesterday my USB device was at some address, then today it would move to different one when the computer was powered on. It drove us nuts. Also it had a maximum usable distance of about 15 feet. RS-232 which it replaced could easily handle distances of 100 feet. We lost 2 computers to damage because they had to be located so close to large equipment putting out steam, filings, or whatever.
So when I see a "new" radio using USB as its primary connection I cringe and realize also that it would be difficult (not impossible) to use that radio remotely.
If I take a WiFi laptop and I want to sit on my back porch on a hot day and work my radio I like to think of what that takes:
With the flex 6000 series I can pretty much have my radio mounted where I want it. In my shack, base of my antenna, in a closet, or on my desk. If I can get a network cable to it, and I have a reasonably priced WiFi router or access point, I can now carry my laptop outside, connect up and do voice, cw, rtty, PSK, etc. Total cost: WiFi router ($100)
With a USB based radio now we are talking about extra software and devices to do that same thing. My options are:
1) Get USB extenders ($50 each) a long network cable $25 then string it outside between my laptop and the radio inside. Kind of a hassle.
2) Get USB to network devices and software: $100 (or more) Probably need something on the laptop side because their software is looking at USB only. In fact this might not even work.
3) USB anywhere $100 (I think) is software that will make remote USB look like it is connected to your computer. But now you have to have a computer running near the radio and your laptop and this software.
In short if a radio is using USB, getting it to work even locally but away from your main station is going to be a challenge and perhaps more expensive. With a Flex and a WiFi router or access point from Amazon you are up and running pretty much anywhere you have signal.
So yes, their software looks cool. But the delivery of data makes it a no-go for me. Also I find the Flex API and the fact that I (as a developer for 30 years) can write my own stuff for the radio to be a huge plus. I've done USB based development and it is not always as easy as it sounds.
Flex will add to Smart SDR. If they don't we have the power right there in the current radios we own to come up with killer software. It just takes someone creating it. I have a version I'm working on. I know Walt has something. We have the iOS stuff. We have actually more options than Apache, this radio in this thread or just about any other radio.
Just my 2c
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Clearly though, ethernet connectivity will permit far wider bandwidths to be viewed.
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...either that, or feature rich software doesn't take as long to develop as some want us to believe!
Ria - N2RJ, Elmer
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Peter K1PGV, Elmer
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"Elad has very good and capable software... check it out!" Useful and interesting. Thank you for that post.
"Flex sucks. SSDR needs more features and I may sell my Flex. Because the software sucks." Not so much.
Do people really believe that the same people repeating the same complaints will make the features they want appear faster?
Tim?! Can I PLEASE be a moderator? Pretty please?
Peter
K1PGV
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Remember the internet is a strange place. It is so easy to hide behind our computer screens, type stuff we'd probably never say to someone's face. Emotion gets lost when typings just words!
So lets all remember we are human, share some common interests and we are all on this planet together!
KY6LA - Howard, Elmer
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Like you I find the rather juvenile whiners to be tiresome ,but I have long given up wasting my time debating them. Life is too short!
Even if every possible imaginable feature had been implemented the whiners would still find something to bitch about. That is how they get their jollies.
'
Just save your energy enjoy the hobby. And ignore the whiners. Like all trolls, if no one responds they will crawl back in their holes and look for soothing else to bitch at.
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And nothing could be further from the truth.
Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager
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I will only moderate if the post violates our usage policy:
And remember when using the Community always show respect to others regardless of their opinions. Give people the benefit of the doubt, just like you would if talking to them in person. Posts that include personal attacks, overtly negative comments, non-constructive criticism, falsehoods or gratuitous profanity will be removed, as they do not contribute to the community atmosphere we want to establish. Any pattern of poor behavior may result in losing your Community posting privileges.
As long as the discourse is healthy, non-personal and constructive in nature, you have nothing to worry about.
I will, however, reserve the right to close a topic if I feel that all points of view have been adequately expressed and it is just droning on, adding nothing of consequence to the topic.
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I like the idea of the paid updates, and a few in between. If SmartSDR and the FlexRadio is not adequate, There are several other options.
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I think this post has gone way off track.
1. I like the 600 series hardware.
2. Like many other would like to see a little bit more resources dedicated to SmartSDR.
3. This is NOT a comparison of radios Just SOFTWARE clients.
We are talking about SmartSDR for windows software NOT the HARDWARE!
And because people don't actually read the original post here is a Reminder.
I find it amazing how many features the Elad FDM-SW2 software has already and is just a few years old, although the hardware is not as good as a flex the software shows just how far SmartSDR has to go as far as customization and User interface features.
Again this is NOT to say a FDM-Duo is a better radio it is to show that SmartSDR has a long way to go in terms of features and user customization.
In May 2017 SmartSDR and the 6000 series will be over 5 years old and is still only at Ver 1.10 and will jump to Ver 2 but will it be even close in terms this level of features & customization?
Yes I know WAN is coming in Ver 2 and that's great but will that be it, I guess will just have to see...
-
Hi Ria, I like all of the things you mentioned.
This is a few of the things I like...
1. User definable Band preset BUTTONS.
2. User definable Color coded slice receivers.
3. User definable Movable and dock-able windows.
4. User definable AGC(T) parameters.
5. User definable Receive filter presets.
6. Shows frequency at courser position.
7. Data values shown next to all sliders and buttons all of the time, Not just when you hover the mouse courser.
8. Extensive recording & playback features such as Audio with ability to save files, I&Q audio and much more.
9.info display showing Spectrum & waterfall displays. (Span width, FFT Resolution, Scale, Averaging level.
10. Many values shown in dBm scale.
11. Full use of right mouse button. (Right Click Windows)
12. Handy built-in log book.
13. Ability to lock slice’s to center of screen so you can scroll pan adapter.
14. Squelch for each receiver slice for all modes.
15. Ability to tune with Keyboard.
16. Lots of use of Shift, Ctrl, & Alt buttons. (Eg. Shift+Drag)
17. Measurement markers, Delta Markers.
18. Audio spectrum & FFT windows.
19. FREE Wireless Android app.
20. Ability to customize UI colors.
I could go on and on but you can clearly see from this one video how far behind SmartSDR is it terms features. And in this video David only shows a fraction of what the software is capable.
Now one last thing I know there will be some that say that the screen is to busy and for some that may be true BUT SmartSDR could have a menu option for “Standard Display” for a simplified UI like it is now Or an “Advanced Display” for those more advanced users that like to see more status info at a glance. This way all users would be happy.
Again this is NOT to say that the FDM-Duo is a better radio it’s to show how far SmartSDR needs to go in terms of features Only.
I hope Version 2.0 is not just about WAN I hope we see a lot more features such as these Especially for the $200 they expect us to fork over for V.2.
Again keep in mind the 6000 series is over 5 years old and the software is only at 1.10 and to jump to 2.0 soon as a $200 paid version? At the current software development pace by the time we see features like this the radio will be Old and obsolete.
Either FRS makes software development a real priority and hires a bunch more software developers or the competition will blow them by quickly. You can only be a leader if you stay ahead of the competition. The 6000 series is awesome and has great potential but it’s the Software that’s holding it back.
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There must be a point where this hardware becomes like an old ipad that can no longer run the latest version of IOS. This seems to be true of anything with chips in it since we were introduced to the calculator back in the 70's.
Dan KM6CQ
Ken - NM9P, Elmer
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As long as SSDR is written FOR the 6000, it will RUN on the 6000. The software doesn't take on a life of its own.. the platform, however has lots of overhead and will be effective for a good while. Certainly it won't become obsolete as quickly as standard tablets, smartphones, and computers.
But, indeed, someday FRS will decide to release a new model that will require a new branch of software. And who knows if it will be backward compatible?
Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager
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We built SmartSDR this was to ensure that software obsolescence due to changes in hardware does not occur. It is expensive to rewrite software for every new radio platform that comes out and that is not something smart companies do.
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With my 6500 I used it a year until DAX was introduced. Then I was able to get rid of the 3000 and some other rigs. DAX has far surpassed every method I used up until that point.
At first we only had a spectrum display and SSB/CW was all we could operate.
It has become very nice now. I think 2.0 will take us from being a full featured rig into something no one else is doing.
Dan
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People especially here in the USA are just way too complacent when it comes to network security. Maybe they are relying on the vendors providing the systems to look out for their best interest? Crazy.
As long as v2.x does not prevent me from running a VPN (can't imagine this), I will keep my VPN as added security.
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You are correct and I will agree. One thing about the 6000 and SmartSDR is that we have some features no other radios on the market offer or can offer. I sometimes get impatient with missing features and get caught up in what we don't have. I need to start appreciating what features we do have. Thank you.
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Ria - N2RJ, Elmer
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Steve K9ZW, Elmer
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@Ria - I think Tony is UK based. https://community.flexradio.com/flexradio/topics/lowly-m6-in-uk
I'd offered to do a presentation to his club, but he never took me up on that.
73
Steve K9ZW
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Now of course I don't expect to wake up tomorrow and SmartSDR to have every feature I or you can dream up but I would like many others here just like to see a more accelerated pace for the Software development to really start showing more of the power and capability of the Hardware.
Is the 6000 Series great YES.
Is the current state of SmartSDR good YES.
Is it a great Performing radio Absolutely.
Again the question that remains to be seen is will the Software in terms of features catch up to the Hardware before the hardware becomes a bit behind the technological curve.
What flex has done with SDR is truly amazing and I don't discount for one second how hard software development is and the challenges that come with it and what they have done to this point is great.
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This looks cool as well. Nice Inexpensive little radio, good for some that want to try a SDR receiver without spending a lot of money. Retails for $149 usd.
Has a nice looking GUI and has some nice features.
(Again this is to show Software features not to compare radios or receiver performance.)- 339 Posts
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Get the newer version RSP2 the plastic case has some built in shielding, but I got the one in a metal box. Note a 90% of the processing is in the computer.
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OK so as we all now know FRS has some more new hardware coming (as seen at Hamvention 2017) and will be discontinuing the 6300 & 6500 also will be end of life for SSDR Ver 1.10. and your 6300 & 6500 just dropped significantly in value.
And so now we still don’t have software with any of the features of PowerSDR or many of the other SDR software out there and now they expect us to pay to upgrade to Ver 2.0.
Well the good news is FRS hired 1 more software engineer.
All I can say is WOW! WTF! Very disappointing.
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