CW sidetone

  • 4
  • Question
  • Updated 5 months ago
Does anyone have any idea when the CW sidetone will be available to monitor via DAX so it can be monitored remotely?

Photo of Greg


  • 656 Posts
  • 63 Reply Likes

Posted 5 years ago

  • 4
Photo of W1RE


  • 95 Posts
  • 18 Reply Likes
Any updates on this? I am using 'LAN Remote' but cannot hear my sidetone when using the internal keyer and it's damn near impossible to operate CW without hearing your sidetone!  Is this on the roadmap or expected any time soon? I am thinking this become more urgent with remote WAN in 2.0.

What is everybody else doing if you're using LAN remote?
Photo of Al K0VM

Al K0VM, Elmer

  • 591 Posts
  • 98 Reply Likes
Isn't CW side tone available through the default PC speaker when SSDR REMOTE feature is active for LAN ?   DAX is not involved.  Seems to work for me.. Or maybe I dont understand your needs..
Photo of Al K0VM

Al K0VM, Elmer

  • 591 Posts
  • 98 Reply Likes
Well Remote assumes  not local to the radio... And there is no current way to plug key into the PC.  Although a WINKEY REMOTE type function could possibly be support a remote key.

Photo of Tim - W4TME

Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

  • 9153 Posts
  • 3495 Reply Likes
Al is correct. When operating remote, CW sidetone is only generated when you are operating using CWX and it is generated locally at the PC.  Due to latency delays when operating remote, sidetone is not available when using the keyer that is internal to the radio.  
Photo of Asher - K0AU

Asher - K0AU

  • 190 Posts
  • 30 Reply Likes
Tim, It would be really nice to get CW sidetone fed back on the DAX/remote channel (perhaps when IAMBIC mode is turned off).  Latency within reason is not an issue for this use case.

I use a WinKeyer on a remote LAN serial port for contest keying with N1MM+ because I couldn't get CWX over CAT to respond to the ESC key (to stop sending a macro when I fat-fingered a function key).  ESC works fine with a remote WinKeyer.
Photo of W1RE


  • 95 Posts
  • 18 Reply Likes
I too would also like to ability to selectively enable or disable CW sidetone on the DAX receive audio. I am getting better audio quality in LAN Remote mode and less interference than through the speakers directly connected to the audio on on the rear of my 6700.
Photo of k3Tim


  • 865 Posts
  • 170 Reply Likes
If I may add to this thread..  Sidetone (selectable) on the remote channel  would be desirable when using a physical key hooked to the 6k while using the attached PC's audio capability. Example - when doing SWL and using headphones plugged into the PC with 6K in remote mode all is good. Switch to CW, all is good until you hit the bug and hear nothing although RF squirts out. The ah-ha moment hits and I realize I have to reconfigure the audio to run CW.  For such a high speed connection (dedicated 1Ghz LAN) the delay can't be to bad, IP stack protocol notwithstanding.

I had a difficult time removing RFI from attached speaker on ACC.  Folks out here advised a Studio Monitor speaker - excellent advise.  Very good quality sound and the input is "Pro" differential.  Used a small transformer to convert the ACC unbalanced to balanced and remove ground reference.  The RFI was cured!

Photo of Steve - N5AC

Steve - N5AC, VP Engineering / CTO

  • 1045 Posts
  • 1023 Reply Likes
Today, there are two key ways to send CW: from a paddle/key or from CWX.  The paddle/key can only be plugged into the radio today -- there is no way to plug a paddle into the PC when operating remote.  Sidetone needs to be immediate for any paddle/key operation and so sidetone is generated locally on the radio when the paddle/key is plugged in there.  For remote, the expectation is that you are really remote -- that you will not be keying the radio from a paddle/key on the radio since the PC is remote.  For this reason, there didn't seem to be any reason to send the sidetone to the PC.

For CWX operation when remote, we do have local feedback (sidetone) on the PC.  I think it is likely that we will add some kind of paddle/key support on the PC for remote operation, but this is not yet scheduled.  This was brought up in another thread also.  Maestro has an internal keyer (a Winkeyer 3 from K1EL Systems) and we will have local sidetone in the Maestro for this keyer.
Photo of Bob Wright, N7ZO

Bob Wright, N7ZO

  • 270 Posts
  • 67 Reply Likes
Hi Steve,

Since you are implementing a Winkeyer in Maestro, there must be an Ethernet API to support this.  Will this be public?

73, Bob, N7ZO
Photo of Steve - N5AC

Steve - N5AC, VP Engineering / CTO

  • 1045 Posts
  • 1023 Reply Likes
We are discussing exactly how this will work.  Thinking out loud, we may implement a new port type in CAT that appears to be a Winkeyer that will forward all commands to the Winkeyer.  It would just be a virtual serial port that looks like just another Winkeyer.  This idea did get some concern from other engineers here, though, so we'll need to look at in detail in the next few weeks when we implement that part of Maestro.  There is also some concern that someone could "brick" the Winkeyer in Maestro if we are not careful and it's no longer a chip you can pull off the board ;-)  More details when we know, but I do think that it's purpose would be greatly diminished if we didn't allow loggers direct access to the chip.
Photo of Wayne, W5XD

Wayne, W5XD

  • 18 Posts
  • 6 Reply Likes
I'll add a reason for supporting radio-back-to-PC sidetone audio channel: recording the as-sent CW, especially for contest operations. With the Flex today, the only way to get a recording of the transmitted CW is to cable the Flex analog phones output to a PC sound board. If I got to choose where the Flex would put a sidetone, I would put it on the DAX audio RX channel corresponding to the transmitting Slice (even though it is a TX sidetone.) Overlaying the sidetone on the RX audio would make the recording channel selection more-or-less match what happens on analog rigs today. That is, the CW sidetone appears on the same analog channel as the received audio. I just wish the Flex would do the analogous thing for DAX RX.
Photo of John G3WGV

John G3WGV

  • 189 Posts
  • 36 Reply Likes
+1 from me on the issue of recording both sides of a CW QSO. This is a perplexing omission and it is patently ludicrous to have to convert digital audio to analogue and then pipe it through a sound card, where it is promptly digitised again.

This issue has been mentioned several times in the past and I even wrote a proposal paper about a year ago. Tim advised at that time that it was in the enhancements list. It doesn't seem like it ought to be that hard to do but the guys have been rather busy with V2.
Photo of Sergey, R5AU

Sergey, R5AU

  • 855 Posts
  • 114 Reply Likes
I am agree , my +1 here, i understand why CW tone not transmitting thought the DAX , however dedicated channel of the DAX for recording purpose must be
Photo of Jim G3YLA


  • 6 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
Another +1 from me. I valued the CW sidetone on the output via VAC in PSDR with my Flex 3000 to monitor CW sending habits. A great shame its not available in SSDR on my Flex 6500, regardless of remote/Maestro issues, just a good CW practice to be able to monitor sending with say CWGet etc. 73 de Jim G3YLA
Photo of Tico


  • 7 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
+1 from me to. I try to setup a remote N1MM contest configuration and I like to hear what N1MM transmits.
Photo of Stan - VA7NF

Stan - VA7NF

  • 425 Posts
  • 97 Reply Likes
+1 from me to and not just remote.  Since the limited edition I've had to plug the key into the 6X00 to hear both N1MM and my keying, even on my own subnet.
Photo of Carsten, DL6LAU

Carsten, DL6LAU

  • 8 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
Hi there, 

is it possible meanwhile? Tried with Win-Test and N1MM+ over the weekend and it seems not. Is it really not possible to monitor the CW transmission if sent with a logging software for instance?

If not, is there a workaround? Plans to introduce it soon?


Carsten, DL6LAU
Photo of Timo - OH5KW

Timo - OH5KW

  • 22 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
I have been using Remoterig RRC-1258 boxes for audio from remote flex. They have low latency and are "robust" All other tasks are done via VPN, including CW-skimmers. Remote CW-contesting is possible with extra HW.
Timo, OH5KW
Photo of K9SO


  • 69 Posts
  • 12 Reply Likes
Another use case:

I keep all my radios in the basements of both of my QTHs. I operate the local stations from the living room in comfort via LAN using a PC under the table and my remote stations from the same lounge chair via WAN and a Maestro. But when I operate CW locally via LAN, I have no sidetone (I can't hear it in the basement!). I do the same thing when I'm at the other house, but in reverse. 

I've had to put Winkeyers upstairs in both operating locations and run separate keying lines down to the basement radios. At least now I have a sidetone I can hear. 

I have small, family-friendly operating positions. But now everyone else can hear the sidetone too. I now have to add mixers and modify the Winkeyers to feed it into my headphones.

It sure seems odd that I can operate my remotes from 800 miles away and have a local sidetone but I can't when I operate via the LAN. No, CWT is not the answer. I hate keyboard CW. Yes, I could get another Maestro but sometimes I like the big screen. 

As much as I like my two Winkeyers, I hope they're not the permanent solution here. 

Photo of VE6WZ


  • 17 Posts
  • 2 Reply Likes
Does the new 2.4.9 address this ability to to have a sidetone delivered from the a remote when being keyed by N1MM at the remote location?
I have borrowed a friends 6700 and I like the radio, but I can't buy the radio without this functionality.
If this new update isn't a solution, is Flex going to continue to kick this can down the road or will they actually make it available in the near term?