SmartSDR Subscription Service

Trucker

Looking at the announcement for the new SmartSDR Subscription Service, I have to wonder how this ANNUAL subscription service to receive new features for SmartSDR version 4.x will be accepted by users. In the announcement, Mike says everyone on version 3.x can move to version 4.x at no cost. But, to get new features ( Smart Signal, Wideband receive, diversity reception with phase cancelation for dual SCU's, and other possible new features) will cost you $199 a year and you get the new features as they are released. $299 a year, let's you get the new features much sooner ( pre-beta testers??) .

Personally, I think this idea isn't a good one. But, only time will tell. I think it will cost Flex Radio new and some, current customers.

What do YOU think??

James

WD5GWY

johnn1jm

If they cut it down to $99/ year, I might grab on to that. I think at $199, it's going to turn a lot away.

Geoff AB6BT

James, as you say we'll see.

On the one hand, $200 is only 4% of a $5000 radio.

Frankly, the difference between $100 and $200 annually is not really that much. How much does your phone cost? How about cable/fiber internet.

Graham999au

This is a disgrace!

I have 5 Flex radios. I recently upgraded (at a cost of thousands of dollars) 2 of my 6600's to 8600's based on Flex saying new features would require the new radios, now I'm being asked to cough up an annual fee to use those same new features! If I want to use my Flex radios to their full extent I would be paying 5 x US$199 (approx AU$1500) per year!!

At the very least, some sort of volume discount is necessary.

As a long term user and supporter I feel betrayed by Flex…it's a real "kick in the teeth".

Graham VK3GA

Wayne VK4ACN

In VK, us$199 =au$304

I don't mind paying that, although it is a lot, if they release new updates. But for years Flex have been saying they are going to release more frequent updates, and nothing much ever gets released.

Trucker

Geoff, my phone and internet service are from the same provider. My phone gets updates fairly regularly even though it's not the latest thing. My internet provider ( AT&T fiber along with my cellphone service) gets regular upgrades. At no extra cost. I know you cannot compare a company like AT&T to Flex Radio. But, the concept is the same. Provide good customer service and extras at no additional costs. I have no problem paying for a version upgrade. I have misgivings about new features coming out a year after my annual fee is paid and having to pay ( subscribe) again to get the new features. And yet,I am still on the same version. If new features continue to come out at the same pace as they have in the past, we will be paying for new features every year or two depending on when someone at Flex Radio decides to release them.

What will be interesting is how Marcus handles this situation with his version of SmartSDR. If Flex Radio exposes the new features in the API will he be able to add them to his version of SmartSDR? And, I wonder if he will change his method of selling his software.

Lots to think about.

James

WD5GWY

Al_NN4ZZ

I have (2) 6600 models.  My primary 6600 that I use regularly.  And a second one that sits on the shelf for backup if/when I have to send in my primary 6600 in for repairs.   I haven't needed to use the backup 6600 since I bought it, so it is not connected to power or my PC or the internet.   If/when I do need to use my backup 6600 I would have to upload the latest SSDR version anyway.  

Questions: 

1 - Does the new subscription service require me to purchase (2) licences?  ( i.e one for my prirmary unit and one for the backup unit)

2 - Or can I just purchase 1 license and uploaded the latest version to my backup 6600 if/when I need to use it? 

I read the communtiy post but didn't see a clear answer to my questions, maybe I missed it... 

Regards, Al / NN4ZZ  

al (at) nn4zz (dot) com

6600 SSDR V3.9.18T

GXL 1.2.17

PGXL  3.8.9

Win11

Ray - K6LJ

James,

Like you i am on the fence. Paying $200/yr for "unknown new features" may not be what I would like to do. I think it might be better to list the new feature to be applied to the radio and allow you to pay for that individual feature. You would not be paying for all new features that you would never use.

You would have a customized radio suiting your needs.

I believe if this is a method to generate income to better support existing bug fixes and feature research it might be worth it.

I submitted a bug report 10 months ago SMART-10611 concerning DAC-IQ and cw skimmer that has had no known response yet.

I would like to see a new feature like APD get fully working and bug fixes addressed before charging into new features all the way.

My thoughts anyway.

Geoff AB6BT

James…I agree that mentioning other services is not comparing similar models.

The point I was making is just the absolute cost of the Flex subscription compared to orher recurring costs. I currently pay about $150 monthly ($1800 annually) for Internet and 2 phones. Many people pay for other TV subscriptions as well.

And I wonder how many folks buy a $5 coffee everyday?

Look, I'm as frugal as the next ham. I'm not pro or con regarding this subscription yet.

I was trying to put the cost into perspective compared to other common subscriptions.

I suppose the added cash might warrent another software engineer or 2…

Trucker

Ray, I am wondering if APD( Smart Signal) working as it should with an external amplifier will happen with v4.x Basic, or will it require a paid subscription to activate it. That and other features that were promoted with the announcement of the 8000 radios looks like it will require paying for a subscription to get them. There were several features mentioned when Flex Radio announced the 8000 radios that were exclusive to the new radios. But, there wasn't any mention of having to pay more to get those new features. Then again, Flex Radio did the same thing in the past with the 6000 radios. The Radio is a Server. Connect to your radio from anywhere you have an internet connection. And same thing with Multi-Flex, you had to pay to get the ability to share your radio with another user over the network.

Flex Radio announces possibilities when releasing new radios. They just don't mention that the possibilities will cost you more money than you have already paid.

I am OK with the current upgrade model. (Version to version ) You pay and you know that any new features for that version are paid for until the next full version is released. As far apart as the current upgrade model has had releases, and if Flex Radio continues the same upgrade cycle, then to get new features will cost money every year or so.

James

WD5GWY

VE7FM

My question is how long do these "licenses" last for. If I install version 4.0(with no options/sub) and then power off my radio for 10 years will I be able to use it 10 years from without it requiring an internet connection to talk to the "mothership" and re-authorize operation? I assume the new license that 3.10.10 required is already using the new format(and I wasn't impressed that my radio needed approval from FlexRadio just to operate with this update).

Trucker

According to the announcement, you will still be able to use your radio. The only difference is, if the newer software has features you want. ( or need) Then, you will have to pay for the upgrade because of your subscription being expired.

James

WD5GWY

Mike-VA3MW

Let me hit some highlights.

• Upgrading to V4 is at no cost — FREE
• All software defect updates are at no cost — FREE
• Does the above ever expire? - NO

Features:

• If you chose to pay for a subscription, you get, at no extra charge, all the NEW features released in that 12 month period
• Do they expire or ever stop working - NO even if you power off your radio for 10 years
• They are yours (actually licensed to the radio forever)

This is actually a better model than the previous model as you only pay for FEATURES. Software bug fixes will be forever free even if you have a FLEX-6300 you bought in 2013.

gregoriosw

Would it be possible to explain what impact if any this will have on Mac users using Marcus' software. I've raised the query in the Mac software area but doubt it will get seen there.

Currently we have paid willingly for Marcus' software. Fine. Currently whatever is exposed in the API is accessible to Marcus to provide to users or not as he feels he can do. For instance I asked if pass through for usb would ever be supported. He said highly unlikely or not at all. Perfectly fine.

Currently firmware is available to upload in the software itself for users with no windows hardware at all.

In the light of the subscription model what changes will there actually be given Marcus' software is linked to on the company's site. Can we expect to have to pay for a subscription to access the API at all so he will have to build that in? Will you expect people to have a Windows box to install updates to the radio which I for one would prefer not to do? Will things continue as normal provided the API supports what Marcus is doing and updated radio firmware is available as normal (with the fancy windows features only being available with subscription).

I ask because currently I use a loan 6300. When I move from my paid work to paid vocational work I was hoping to treat myself to an Aurora 510. If this will be hamstrung for Mac from the off due to not having a Windows machine or some convoluted model this would be pretty suboptimal.

Can some post be put together to explain the impact on non-Windows / alternative software users?

73 Greg
2E1GW

kb9zm

Several features were promised when Flex Radio announced the 8000 radios that were exclusive to the new radios, but there wasn't any mention of having to pay more to get those new features. Those of us who have 8000 radios expected those to be free. This sounds like were being lied to. Customers are any companies most important asset. Subscription models drive customers away.

Greg6498

Nope! This is it for me. I have been using Marcus’ software because you only pay once and all updates are free. Plus, all of his updates always work. I will be moving on to the FTDX 101D. Their updates are also always free. Marcus also makes an app called FT-Control that runs just like the Mac flex software and includes logging, clusters and many other bells and whistles. AND if the computer goes down the 101D will still be on the air!😁

Greg N4WVE

W1WRA

I understand the business model of the subscription, but this makes me seriously reconsider things.

I would much rather a model where I paid per feature vs a subscription with unknown number of features, as well as unknown features (at this time). I suppose one nice thing is the claim that once you pay for a feature (via subscription), it remains if you choose not to re-up your subscription. Begs the question if you skip a year, do you get the back features you missed if you re-subscribe , or do you only get the ones that are in a subscription window?

As others have mentioned, there is a large unknown with the MacOS client. I have wrote a bunch of custom automations, and generally enjoy the MacOS experience better than Windows. Will there be a SmartSDR+ version for MacOS? I'd imagine the model is you pay for subscription , BUT will those features make it into a MacOS client?

While the subscription model looks great to bean counters, I am not sure how the general user base will respond. The "exciting" part of this announcement seems to be much more for FlexRadio, and not Flex users. Many unknowns at this point.

otisw

Mike if I subscribe in January 2026 to get a new feature for a 6600 (let use sstv for example) and I let the subscription lapse in 2027, will sstv still work going forward? Second scenerio, I skip 2026 sstv and wefax is intruduced in 2027 do I get sstv & wefax in 2027. What happens when I let that one lapse in 2028, do I keep whatever I got in 2027 going forward? Thanks de WA2N

Neil D Friedman N3DF

My cable/internet bill is close to $300/month. My Flex 8600M brings me at least as much satisfaction.

VE7ATJ_Don

Hmmm, I (like others) would like to know what features are available in each release before committing to $200 USD for the 'upgrade'. I'm hoping that we will still get emails/community notices of each new version of 4.x listing what features are included. Then we can decide if we want to pay for that feature set (and I guess any others that show up that year).

I have to admit tho, that many of the 'features' that have recently been added have been of very little use to me, while many of the things we've been asking for for years have been languishing somewhere. Even stuff everyone has agreed are great ideas seem to disappear into the ether, while instead we get analog meters…..

Dewey WØYWW

Does the "plus" subscription option, mean that Flex will stop using the special/current group of designated alpha testers, and opt to use only "plus" subscribers to provide initial bug feedback. It seems strange that Flex engineering will only review plus membership feedback at least once a month — if that data is considered valued, essential feedback, it should be reviewed continuously, as received, and investigated on basis of estimated impact upon the user base.

Regardless, I committed to the Flex program many years ago; I'm not willing to reverse course now. I plan to use the plus membership for my 8600 and free update subscriptions for 6600 & 6700 backup radios. If I have future need for a new feature in a backup radio, I'll replace it with a new radio.

Erik Carling EI4KF

When the 8000 series was announced, new features were promised for the purchasers. There was no mention of extortion to gain from the consumer a conditional annual and massive charge.

What a way to treat the user base. The rich will be less bothered of course and those that for some perverse reason don't feel aggrieved at broken promises and duplicity in their lives will also let it go.

But that still means loss of future sales for Flex and disenchanted and severely annoyed customers currently and long into the future.

W4AFK Bruno

I kind of expected this. Like it or not, everyone seems to be moving to a "subscription service" to bring in a stream of funds, which in itself is not bad if the results are more features and bug fixes. So on one side, I understand. On the other, I wonder how they came up with that yearly subscription cost? $200/year/radio is a lot (I manage two remote 6x00 radios). I know, I don't need to move to SmartSDR+, but ...

Maybe I missed something, but I would like some clarifications:

1. Will we need to pay to move from 3.10.10 to 4.x "basic? ←- Mike answered this … the update to 4.x basic is free
2. Will current 6x00 3.10.10 users keep all of the functions they currently have when they move to 4.x "basic"?
3. Additionally, will current 8x00 3.10.10 users keep the APD "beta", or will they have to move (and pay) for SmartSDR+ to get the "released" version?'
4. If you move to SmartSDR+, I assume that the radio will also need to be updated, right? Will this be like the 3.x series where all users also need to update their software to SmartSDR+?
   1. If so, per my understanding, they do NOT need to pay for the "+" as this license is tied to the radio, right?
5. You mention that you MUST have an internet connection. Correct me if I am missing something, but for ham radio clubs like us, who are sharing remote Flex 6x00 radios with members, if we updated the radios to SmartSDR 4.x basic, users would be able to download SmartSDR 4.x basic for free, and connect to the remote radios as it's being done with the 3.x series, right?

Looking forward to better understanding the implications to see how this will affect our club systems

Eric-KE5DTO

On the question about SmartSDR for Mac, I can clarify that the subscription unlocks features in the radio. The clients will have access through the API to know which features are available (or not) based on the radio subscription. This means that SmartSDR for Mac will work in the same way that SmartSDR for Windows and SmartSDR for Maestro/M work with regard to new features and SmartSDR+ subscriptions.

Eric-KE5DTO

Will current 6x00 3.10.10 users keep all of the functions they currently have when they move to 4.x "basic"?

Yes. All existing functionality will continue to be available with SmartSDR v4.x. Those that are on v2 will have access to SmartLink and those with v3 today will continue to have multiFLEX with no SmartSDR+ subscription. Nothing is being taken away.

Will current 8x00 3.10.10 users keep the APD "beta", or will they have to move (and pay) for SmartSDR+ to get the "released" version?'

Yet to be determined.

If you move to SmartSDR+, I assume that the radio will also need to be updated, right? Will this be like the 3.x series where all users also need to update their software to SmartSDR+?

The radio will need to be updated to v4.x to get new features.

If so, per my understanding, they do NOT need to pay for the "+" as this license is tied to the radio, right?

Correct. The radio is licensed. The clients simply use that license when they connect to the radio (true for SmartSDR for Windows, Maestro/M, Mac, and iOS, just to name a few).

You mention that you MUST have an internet connection. Correct me if I am missing something, but for ham radio clubs like us, who are sharing remote Flex 6x00 radios with members, if we updated the radios to SmartSDR 4.x basic, users would be able to download SmartSDR 4.x basic for free, and connect to the remote radios as it's being done with the 3.x series, right?

Everyone will be able to upgrade to v4.x for free. Provided that the radios either have an active SmartSDR+ subscription -OR- the radio was already licensed for at least v2, they will have remote access through SmartLink.

FWIW, we understand that changes to how we charge for software may come with a bunch of questions. Many of these questions are answered by the FAQ included with the announcement. If there are further clarifying questions, please don't hesitate to ask. We will do our best to answer them.

Wayne VK4ACN

Any idea when this V4 subscription service will start?

Ha Gei

Well, if there would have been anything valuable, apart from error corection, coming out for my 6xxx in the years since i have it, i would not have a big problem. But NOTHING .. NOTHING of what has been promised to me in 2019 has ever found it into the machine. So , no way to start paying for something that will also never happen. I especially think it is no bargain for a 6xxx. For what it is , it´s a very good platform for remote Operation on the easy way, but for locally working the OP´s at the Clubstation already added another radio on their own cost for CW and contesting

Harry DL9NDW

AA0KM

My 6500 will have cost me 375 a year so far. Never let me down.

Bought it a year after they started making them as new.

I get my moneys worth. Can`t wait for 4.0 to roll out.

Who is to say major update will happen every 12 months it maybe 2 years who nows?

And yes their maybe not much for my radio because of the older hardware but for now lets GO!

I get my dollar+ a day enjoyment out of my Flex! Thats how i look at it.

4-all band Rx at that.